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Karel Jansens's Avatar
Karel Jansens is offline Karel Jansens
2007-05-12 , 20:03
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#11
Originally Posted by cdstrand View Post
why require that the time be synched to update the device? That's the problem, not anything microsoft did.

Linux, and I say this as a user for seven years, is like this device, the only difference being Linux is free, and you get what you pay for. Unfortunately, with nokia that is not true, instead you get the full Linux experience *and* you pay for it.

Had I known that the device would be of such general poor quality, (Linux is *not* poor quality) and have the total lack of documentation, along with the unusable software, I would never have bought it. In other words, had Nokia told the truth about the device

1. It is going to take several man days and perhaps man months to get the device up
2. No documentation exists worthy of the name (a single sheet of paper which is 75% graphics is not documentation and the pdf user manual is a total joke, with no instructions how to do anything.
3. No sort of error reporting system exists, the buyer must, on their own, evidently, go onto third party web sites (so long as they have, like Nokia requires, windows genuine advantage installed) and follow some sort of convoluted schedule for getting the basic applications required to troubleshoot the device

I cannot imagine anyone, without virtually unlimited funds and time to fiddle, buying this device.

Now I have to go explain why the thing doesn't work and try to get my money back.

Nokia has proved to me that they are not a quality organization. Essentially, what they have done is what Linux has always done, throw a piece of crap out there and let the users clean it up, again, the only difference being Linux is free.

What a beating.
I understand your main beef (in this thread at least) is that the OS update via Windows XP didn't work. It's probably a bit too late to say this, but I've never used Windows to update my 770 and N800. And I don't have a Linux computer in the house!

I simply downloaded and installed VMWare Player and the most recent Ubuntu image from the site and went ahead updating. I've never encountered any problems with the USB connection (and my system has some weird USB sh*t shoved into it) or with the flasher.

And if you had read through the forum (again: probably a little late for me to say this now), you might have learned that the Windows update route is riddled with slippery spots and that many people advize to either use a live Linux CD or install virtualisation software for flashing a 770 or N800. This invariably works well.

Lastly, you haven't paid for Linux on the N800. Trust me. And if you don't trust me, have a look at prices for comparable Windows systems.
 
barry99705's Avatar
barry99705 is offline barry99705
2007-05-12 , 20:18
Posts: 641 | Thanked: 27 times | Joined on Apr 2007
#12
What's Windows?
 
Karel Jansens's Avatar
Karel Jansens is offline Karel Jansens
2007-05-12 , 20:24
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#13
Originally Posted by barry99705 View Post
What's Windows?
It's a bit like Linux, only less secure. And it costs money, but you get spyware in return so that's okay then.
 
Rider is offline Rider
2007-05-12 , 20:40
Posts: 309 | Thanked: 51 times | Joined on Apr 2007
#14
I used a "puppy linux" CD to do the upgrade. Puppy Linux is a small but powerful distribution which works just everywhere. No harddisk needed. You can also boot it from a USB stick. Then I burned the upgrade image and flasher onto another CD-RW. I flashed directly from CD, and everything went very smooth.

Recommended to everyone who does not use Linux on his normal PC.
 
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barry99705 is offline barry99705
2007-05-13 , 04:27
Posts: 641 | Thanked: 27 times | Joined on Apr 2007
#15
Originally Posted by Karel Jansens View Post
It's a bit like Linux, only less secure. And it costs money, but you get spyware in return so that's okay then.
Sweet!! Free software! So far I've flashed my 800 with an Ubuntu machine and a G5. No problems with either. The only thing I've ever really found windows good for is games. It also has some pretty descent mapping programs.
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Karel Jansens's Avatar
Karel Jansens is offline Karel Jansens
2007-05-13 , 13:35
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#16
Originally Posted by barry99705 View Post
Sweet!! Free software! So far I've flashed my 800 with an Ubuntu machine and a G5. No problems with either. The only thing I've ever really found windows good for is games. It also has some pretty descent mapping programs.
And if you have a tablet pc and like handwriting, Windows is your only option...
 
JKolstad is offline JKolstad
2007-05-13 , 18:39
Posts: 37 | Thanked: 2 times | Joined on May 2007 @ Wimer, Oregon
#17
Originally Posted by cdstrand View Post
that's ok except to get it you have to install "windows genuine advantage" to your operating system, thereby opening your computer up to microsoft.
Show me an article somewhere that says WGA "opens up your computer to Microsoft" in some involuntary way -- I doubt you can.

It sounds much more likely that you have a pirated copy of Windows.

if nokia had told the truth about what was required to use this device
No one's forcing you to update the N800's operating system, and even if you do choose to, you don't have to use Windows to do it.

i never would have bought it, but then they wouldn't have my money unless they used fraud...
If you don't like your device, return it for a refund. If you were cheap and purchased it from somewhere that doesn't offer refunds, sell it on eBay.

For the record, I had a Nokia cell phone once and it worked fine. And my N800 works fine too. I'm not suggesting yours isn't defective -- ALL companies have some finite incidence of shipping lemons -- but you're making the classic mistake of extrapolating from 2 bad Nokia experiences into *millions*.

---Joel
 
JKolstad is offline JKolstad
2007-05-13 , 18:44
Posts: 37 | Thanked: 2 times | Joined on May 2007 @ Wimer, Oregon
#18
Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
I don't have any of these problems. And I'm not an advanced linux user.
Same here. I starting reading this board to see what an N800 would be like, and only after doing so for a couple of weeks and having some expectations as to what it'd be like did I purchase one. So far I've been quite pleased...

I did find the "Getting Started with the N800" thread quite useful.

IMO, the N800's documentation is spartan but adequate for the "basic functionality" that the device is sold for -- Internet connectivity, e-mail, and a bit of multimedia. Anything beyond that heads rapidly into the "advanced user" arena, where on pretty much *all* platforms one is expected to be able to do a little digging to find information.

---Joel
 
geneven is offline geneven
2007-05-13 , 19:24
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,151 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#19
It seems as if some people are saying that one shouldn't use a Windows computer to update the N800.

Nokia said that you can use a Windows computer to update the N800, so I think that a user is entitled to believe that is true.

Someone said that this user isn't forced to update his N800. True, especially if he wants a computer that crashes and freezes all the time, as mine did before I flashed it.

The implication seems to be made that everyone should have to have a Linux computer to upgrade the N800 with. If so, that should have been made part of the system requirements. It wasn't. My main computer (the one I'm typing on now) is a Linux computer, but I have never used it to reflash the N800, which I have had to do at least 6 times. Oh, I wasn't forced to do it; I could have sent it back to Nokia instead, since it was totally inoperable, but since I used Windows to flash it, it has worked great.

The style seems to be to meet hostile statements about the N800 with hostile statements about Windows. I don't see how that benefits anyone or how it proves anything. When mud slinging, everyone participating gets dirty.

But if someone will explain to me how I was mistaken to use Windows to reflash my N800, please do. My N800 works great and does everything I want to do with it.
 
jpj is offline jpj
2007-05-13 , 20:07
Posts: 165 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Jan 2007 @ Boston MA USA
#20
Nobody who's read my diatribes about Nokia service could accuse me of being a fanboy. But having said that, I've followed the documented Windows-based flash procedure twice to obtain OS upgrades. I've also reflashed the kernel with the SDHC patches. Everything has worked exactly as advertised. And I've been relatively adventurous with trying out new apps and hacks, with no fatal side effects so far.

I understand this is little consolation to those who experiences have differed, but I think it's inaccurate to convey the impression that the entire platform is fraught with peril. At least not to the extent that I would want to scare potential users away. This is a great little device. Of course it could be better, and I'm sure many of the enhancements I'd like will have to wait for the next generation. But in the meanwhile, I take it nearly everywhere I go, and keep finding new uses. And this is from a guy who likes to travel light.
 
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