Re: Maemo Morality
 

1) I would pull it. However I would first try to untie that one person. This act is indirect.

2) I would not push the 'fat man' as there is no guarantee he would stop the train....what is his weight? 1000pounds or something o.o....Even if I tried to push him, he would easily overpower me and I may instead be the one being thrown infront the train...

Also this act is direct, no way am I gonna willingly kill a man in such a situation. If I did, I would clearly be a cold and heartless bastard, with no regard for human life or anyone standing next to me.

3) Basically the same ans. as no. 2


Edit: I just realized that there is no true measure to the value of life, however life is to be highly valued. The one person separate person tied to the track would represent me. In this case I would have given my life to save the other five people.

In the case of the 'fat man', this fat man would also represent 'me', of course in this case I would not have liked to have been shoved unto the train tracks by some random person and of course I would have given up a fight.

Re: Maemo Morality
 

Not recently, but I've seen Restoration....

<dalek>WOULD YOU CARE FOR SOME TEA?</dalek>

Re: Maemo Morality
 

I'm missing something, maybe, but on 1) I have a choice between killing 5 and killing 1? No time to untie means no time to get to know them, also, it's likely going to be a fast, pressured decision. Where's the moral dilemma in that? One would kill 5 to save 1?

Also, what is this about inaction? Inaction is tolerable when you are surrounded by 500 people and one guy smacks his gf upside the head. I'm not going to set things straight and frankly it's not like she's kidnapped. She chose him.

But really, you're the only one there, and you have the switch. Whatever happens rests on you. This is not the time for inaction. If you don't act, you've killed 5 people by yourself and your inability to make a decision. If you do, you've saved 5 and the one that died you didn't kill. They guy who tied him to the tracks did.

How is throwing the switch murder? Is the second to last piece in a domino responsible for the setup collapse?

Re: Maemo Morality
 

@ndi: your decision and action affects the situation.

What about these two situations:

1. You're standing right there and the switch is already in your grip.

2. The switch is located about 30m away and you have to run like hell to throw the switch in time to affect the crash.

Does that make the situation any different?

Re: Maemo Morality
 

[Spock]Sometimes, the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many [/Spock]

Re: Maemo Morality
 

Hmm. I can see no difference other that i would have less time to think about it in the 2nd case. Can you please elaborate on why it would change something for you? Given that your opinion differs.

IMHO it's the outcome that's important.
And while I wouldn't dare to contradict Spock ... ;)
What he said is is not reason to let five people die for one if you don't know them all.

Re: Maemo Morality
 

3. What if the lever is guarded by a guy who you need to kill first, before you can flick it?

By your math, you'll still be up 3 lives for the 2 you've forsaken. One will be killed by a flick of the switch, the other you'll have to kill by gun or knife.

Re: Maemo Morality
 

stop adding "what if's" until it swings an opinion! what if it was 10 people on the other track? 100? 1million? you still want to get to know their life stories before deciding to actually make a choice?

Re: Maemo Morality
 

In terms of this, firstly the issue of morality is debated ad nauseam amongst academics who have never had to save someone.

As a serving member in a maritime combat unit, we were taught that if an accident occurs, the value of the whole outweighs the value of the few; however, we are a unit and so every effort is made to save the few without endangering the whole or yourself but if it reaches the point where the saving of the few endangers the whole, then the few have to be sacrificed. Have i experienced this for real and in combat. yes and we were lucky.

Another morality question for the philosophists...you see a guy getting mugged by 5 others, do you walk on or go to his assistance?

The issue of your morality is dependant on the circumstance and occasion. Do you freeze/run around like a screaming girl/or take action and try to save someone?

Re: Maemo Morality
 

My decision isn't murder. People already died. It is now a question of how many. It's not like I have an option with chances, so I'd get 80% for 5 people. Whatever my decision is, a person is already dead. It's up to me to save the rest. While hypothetical, the question aims for a real resolution, not a "I'd save them all" kind of American directed movie.

So a person (at the very least) is already dead, killed by an unmentioned person by means of a train. Question now is: Do you switch the train and get 0 additional victims, or not switch and get 4 more?

How is this a dilemma?