maemo.org - Talk - [Council] Community Awards: final results

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Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemangordon (Post 1225431)

@Arie: I really wonder where did all your posts on "It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned" thread go. Especially the one you were stating you're done with your N9. You were running for the council, aren't you? I really feel sorry for not quoting that post.

Good to see you Mr. freemangordon, I am well aware who you are and have nothing but positive comments to make about you, so please, leave Woody and I to solve this issue, I support you being given a device and we should leave it at that. What I am saying is voicing opinions that a lot of Harmattan folks feel, it's time someone says it.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1225429)

It's unbelievably refreshing to hear someone say that out loud and with sincerity. Thank you. :)

Which is why I didn't object to the process myself. All alternatives would lead to someone whining. I chose the one that would be least demeaning to both the winners and runners-up (because nobody here was a loser, in any respect).

Even after the Coucil election, there was bitterness. Complaints about the "size of communities" and not having accurate representation by all devices... Again, the selection criteria was given to us, not self-chosen. CA was not to be a popularity contest, and I feel for the most part we were able to prevent that.

Again, I note that I was not a participant, and my choices were based on merit. And frankly, given the nature of personalities in Council, and some recent conflict there-in, I can tell you that your assumption in this case is not at all true.

This is not the first time this week I've been called blunt. :o

What bitterness? I was running as the Harmattan camp and said absolutely nothing negative about the council election. If that is directed to me, that's all false.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1225394)

I have done nothing but point out that you are being rude and insulting to people, myself inclusive. That's not an attack, it's a factual statement. You are the one perceiving it as an attack because you are emotional and on the attack yourself.

Really? I think you did:

That sounds exactly like you asking for an explanation, literally and aggressively.

You also were being insulting by saying that because some of the award recipients did nothing for the Harmattan community, despite tons of work for other Maemo communities, that they were undeserving.

Do you see what I'm saying now, on how that is insulting to those recipients? What if I were to say the same about coding awards where someone made an app for the N9, but not the N900? That they were undeserving because they did nothing for the Fremantle community... You'd be outraged.

No, we gave them to people who fit the criteria of the competition. I've said that at least 3 times now. This is not about moderation. It's about community members who have contributed in the past and moved the community forward. That's what the CA was about, and it's how we awarded it. Why you still can't understand this is puzzling to me, as I know you to be logical in many respects.

Again, the award was not about future contributions. It was about past contributions. When you grasp that point, we can move on.

You have a rather high opinion of yourself. You come here, demand explanations, question the decision of elected leadership of the community, insult community members by name, and when called on it make personal threats? You are doing quite a bit of damage to the reputation of the "Harmattan camp" through your own ego and bravado than I am by pointing out your actions.

I have no problems with Harmattan, and in fact am working hard to bring them back into the fold. This award group is, if nothing, a huge gift to that camp, weather your can see it or not. In all your demand for respect, I have to say that it's noticeably lacking from your side.

I am part of Council. You have an issue with Council, thus you have an issue with me.

I think you need to take a step back and consider your actions here. You've come into the forum demanding explanations (literally) for who won. You're demanding we hold winners to a commitment of future work, when the award was 100% based on past work. You're calling people out by group and by name as being undeserving, and insulting Council by questioning their choices.

Do you not see how that is insulting, and how YOU are not winning favor with many of the non-Harmattan folks speaking to me (and all of the community) this way?

Instead of taking apart my posts, respond to my complaint, then we can move on.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1225429)

Again, I note that I was not a participant, and my choices were based on merit. And frankly, given the nature of personalities in Council, and some recent conflict there-in, I can tell you that your assumption in this case is not at all true.

This is not the first time this week I've been called blunt. :o

i applaud you for deciding not to enter, and i likewise applaud you for not dancing around your points or being rhetorical.

however, it is extremely difficult to remove human bias, because we are all human. there is no fair way to judge a contest that the judge can win. there is no amount of we-very-carefully-thought-about-it that can circumvent this; its simply human nature.

i think the council at the very least owes the community a public apology for breach of trust. we, as a community, expected that this high-stakes contest would be judged totally fairly, and i personally feel the community cannot in good conscience have done so, with their own names in the pool.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

While I do think the council members should have a harmattan device for obvious reasons, I have to agree this contest was probably not the way for them to get one, as they were the ones deciding who would get the devices. It's not that the people themselves are not deserving, but since they're the judges, well. It doesn't exactly sound fair to be quite honest.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creamy Goodness (Post 1225423)

I don't think that, I never suggested that is what happened.

Then I mis-read you, and am sorry. The feeling I took away from what you said was that you were implying we threw things away and did not do research.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creamy Goodness (Post 1225423)

I'm just saying the Wiki isn't clear and leaves the possibility open.

While the wiki doesn't detail each pain-staking step we took, it should really be common sense that we used the information given (at a minimum) to evaluate applicants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creamy Goodness (Post 1225423)

I am pretty sure I'm allowed to complain that communication could be better when most of you are elected on a platform of openess and communication.

That's fair. To which I now ask back of you: What more would you have liked us to have done to make this process more transparent? Given the links above to the Council blog, meeting logs where this was all discussed weeks ago, and the wiki on the CA itself, what did we miss?

I seriously want to know, because I am attempting to increase the transparency of the Council. You'll note, it's my name on each blog post, and I'm doing the minutes each week. Also, I'm the one replying here. I'm trying...

But this is a two way street. For this to work, people must read the minutes I create, and bother following what Council is doing. It's hardly fair to say Council is not being transparent, when in fact we are, but you are not putting in the effort to even look at it. Transparency is irrelevant if you don't bother looking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creamy Goodness (Post 1225423)

I would ask to know if you had a vote on each winner, and which council members took part in the discussion and voting.

While I don't want to discuss individual choices, I'm happy to tell you the mechanic that was used. The process that was followed was essentially this:

Each Council member took the wiki list and prepared a list of their top 25 entries on Monday.
Those lists were merged and entrants were scored by number of votes (Council were not allowed to vote for themselves, btw) and a master list was made.
Each entrant was reviewed in a private real-time meeting, lasting over 5 hours, where at least 4 Council were present at all times.*
After ranking and a triple-review of the final list by all Council members, the list was made final and publicized.

*I'll note that for the majority of the 5+ hour meeting, all 5 Council were present. One arrived about 30 minutes late for technical reasons, while another had to leave for a short time and provide input in a second exchange afterward. I and two others were there and actively discussing entrants the entire session.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1225442)

While I don't want to discuss individual choices, I'm happy to tell you the mechanic that was used. The process that was followed was essentially this:

Each Council member took the wiki list and prepared a list of their top 25 entries on Monday.
Those lists were merged and entrants were scored by number of votes (Council were not allowed to vote for themselves, btw) and a master list was made.
Each entrant was reviewed in a private real-time meeting, lasting over 5 hours, where at least 4 Council were present at all times.*
After ranking and a triple-review of the final list by all Council members, the list was made final and publicized.

Whoa, whoa, it was clearly stated that those that got devices couldn't vote or pick who else got devices.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arie (Post 1225433)

Well, if you really know me, then you should know that I don't give a sh|t about flatteries, neither I leave my questions unanswered. So, please answer my question, even it seems to be OT.

BTW according to your own definition of who deserves those device I should not be given one. I did absolutely nothing for Harmattan and I don't plan to.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemangordon (Post 1225444)

I don't use my N9 anymore that is true.

I was running for council.

What else would you like me to answer?

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arie (Post 1225437)

Instead of taking apart my posts, respond to my complaint, then we can move on.

Sigh...
Could restate your complaint without insulting others? I'm not clear exactly what your complaint is, since you started this with personal attacks and insults, and made several complaints all at once, many of which I addressed already. (Like assumptions about the nature of the competition, and the like.)

As you can see, I'm happy to reply to people on many topics around this issue. But if I'm replying, I expect you to read what I've written, and not blindly restate arguments that have already been answered. (Like why we aren't holding people to future contribution levels when CA was based on past performance.)

Also: The complaints about the Council election were not directed at you. If I were "targeting" you with that, I would have mentioned you by name. I'm far from shy on being blunt and obvious in that reguard. You should know that by now.