Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Unfortunately, the signal indicators on phones are generally pretty deceptive. They only show signal strength and do not give an indication of snr (signal to noise ratio). It is perfectly possible to have a strong, but unusable signal and your phone won't tell you.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Now the question is, can we determine the level of noise and useable signal? If so then maybe this is a widget waiting to happen? Suppose the other potential measure is that of throughput or number of cell requests issued by the phone - is this information available to the software stack?

Might be nice to be able to do this for each operator visibile - be interesting to see if another provider gives a better signal in locations relevant to the individual too.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

evad please check your PMs :) Thanks

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Bad news, just got off the phone to MPD about this deal.

MPD have stopped sim free versions and the PAYG version is locked to vodaphone as it comes with the PAYG sim to use. Whether or not that means it is branded aswell wasnt made clear but its defiantly locked :(

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Everyone who asked the MPD sales staff was told that the Vodafone PAYG deal is an unlocked N900 plus a Vodafone PAYG SIM Card, but it wouldn't hurt to ask again when you pay over your money.

(Edit: it seems what I said above is obsoleted by JBax's post to the contrary.)

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

I can't get my head around this.

SNR and signal strength both depend on the amount of errors within the bit stream. Therefore a low strength signal will be easily corrupted and the phone will show this. The phone obviously tries to reduce the speed at which its operating (e.g. 3G to 2G, Edge to 2G etc.) in an attempt to decrease the amount of uncorrectable errors.

On the other hand if you have a strong signal and high SNR, then you will still get corrupted bits - and so the phone will still try and reduce the speed at which it is communicating with the tower.

Ultimately - SNR and signal strength go hand in hand. The way I see it a phone cannot have strong but unusable signal? Especially with 3G/UMTS signals where it must decode the bitstream with it's own key (3G uses DSSS - hence constant power adjustment reduces battery life).

Feel free to enlighten me.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Well, this isnt good for those who have yet to place orders. There are others like Handtec offering the phone at around £440-50 mark but they have no clue when they are getting the batch after emailing them 3 days ago. So the logical guess is the 30/11 like most more expensive others :(

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

MPD has 7 days returns policy, so you might trying to place the order for payg handset, when it comes and turnes out it's locked, then return it. Done.

However once you've been told they ARE actually locked (which is strange, tbh), then I'm not sure if return would work...

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

I'm not going to risk it to be honest. Tried the online chat route aswell and the guy confirmed it will be locked. Although he got annoyed when I asked if this was a physical lock to the network or just part of the contract Vodafone has told MPD to sell it as. He just said the word locked.

I agree it looks weird as Nokia said the handsets would be unlocked from the start but dont want to risk it when I dont have enough certainty.

UPDATE: MPD Chat member said the sim free version should be back in a few days (guessing after the 500 or so pre orders they have for it have been dealt with). Dont know whether to believe him though with 2 MPD sources in direct conflict.

Hope this helps anyone in the same situation as me :)

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Obviously it depends on what data the radio provides to user software - I have no idea if it does pass this sort of thing.

I was pretty much paraphrasing my understanding of an article I read a couple of years ago - I've had a quick look, but can't find it right now. I'm no radio comms expert but I do know that signal field strength and the snr are two different and independent things and that the snr can fluctuate but the field strength stays fairly constant with a static receiver and transmitter.

jjx was aking why he had a strong signal indicator (which only shows signal field strength) but very poor data throughput - a situation that can easily be explained by noise affecting transmission.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

It may make sense that the handset would actually be locked too as vodafone are rumoured to be the first uk network to officially offer the handset

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

I found the MPD employees to be very unproffesional when using the chat function:
Me: Hi, can you tell me if you will be offering the N900 Tmobile contracts again in the future?
MPD: Doubt it.
MPD: Get it on Vodaphone.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

If I were you, I'd go for SIM-free handset from handtec.co.uk. Slightly more expensive, but peace of mind is included free. ;)

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Yes, SNR and signal strength are different things. Bu I would think that the signal bar you see on your phone is a combination of SNR and Signal strength.

My reasoning is that since the signal is encrypted (with 3G/UMTS) you must first decrypt the signal before you can determine if it's strong or not. Therefore with a high SNR you can't decrypt it properly and nor can you with low quality signal - so I think half of your initial assumption was incorrect, signal bars on phones are not deceptive, they do give you correct information about the 'overall' signal quality, but they don't make the distinction between SNR and signal quality.

On a separate note perhaps jjx was experiencing low data throughput because there were lots of other people using data within his location? With RF bandwidth being such a scarce resource, I would assume the contention ratio would be much much higher than say normal broadband.

A good intellectual debate I'd say ;), better than some of the mindless posts on here. :p

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Unprofessional and infact rude and patronising to me :mad:

Almost take a defensive stand point when asked searching questions beyond the ignorant sheep ones.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

3G has a feature of "breathing cell", which means that more people are using given cell, less area it can supply with good coverage. This is what I observe on quite regular basis while commuting daily - when train is packed, using internet over 3G is sometimes pretty painful...

Yes indeed (I am a great fan of techie-side of mobile technology, in fact), however I don't think we're exactly on-topic here. :)

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

I received an email from MPD yesterday, stating that the Vodafone contract based handset will be unlocked and unbranded.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

We are talking about the PAYG version which is alot cheaper.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Therefore buying it on Contract will not be locked to Vodafone only SIMs??

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Still happy with my £331.79 with 3 discounts including Express delivery and extra battery. £392.99 is a good deal would rather spend a little extra and get a sim free version.

MPD is a company I would never use again they was really poor when I got my TP2 and N97 from them. There on my list of internet stores to never use again.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

What exactly was it about MPD that was a problem? I've ordered from them so I'm naturally interested to know about any issues there might be with them.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Me too, I have an order with them...

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

A friend of mine has placed an order for HTC Hero with T-Mobile new contract on MPD's website some time ago. Despite he already was a T-Mobile contract customer (he was taking additional contract on his name), MPD asked him to send copies of his passport, licence etc. - allegedly required by T-Mobile for credit check...

I am slightly sceptical about MPD too, but they are the one and only option to get N900 with contract these days, so there's no other choice than sit back and wait how things evolve... Fingers crossed!

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Same here. Strange but all of this time of anticipating N900 nothing bad (as far as I noticed) was mentioned about MPD. Now after the release and our pre-orders (mine Vodafone 12 months 300mins+ Web) we got in worries again...

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

sorry didn't mean to cause anyone any concerns. They were very rude on the phone and took ages to respond to my mails (avoiding me) unprofessional. The service was just terrible. Both phones were purchased at the same time. I already had tmobile contacts and have been with them for years when they was one2one. They cancelled my original contract just made a complete mess which took a month to sort out and a huge bill at the end of the month.

My problems only got sorted with me going to the Southampton store. I order my N97 from them due to them being nokia partners, They really had trouble dealing with the demand and gave out wrong information everytime I called.

Maybe things have changed and I wish you all luck 

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

I just noticed that the Vodafone (UK)'s unlimited data plan is not truely unlimited, it's only 500MB

Source - http://www.vodaphone.co.uk/dispatch/...ageID=PTC_0004

See point 38: Data Access - monthly bundles

But I reckon you can go above the limit within good reasons.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

You mean Your Plan £35 + Web?

Have they taken the £89 yet or do they take it later when they've done a credit check, etc?

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Kieron, answered your question on other page.

For those asking about the branding of phones from MPD this is the email response I got when I asked.

Hi

The handsets we sell here are unlocked to use any SIM and they are unbranded, i.e. they don't have a network logo printed on the outside of the phone, nor do they come with any network specific software installed.

It is likely that a handset supplied from Vodafone directly will be locked to their own network and will contain their software on the handset.

Regards



Mobile Phones Direct Ltd

Hope that helps?

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

You would hope so but - anecdotally on most phones at least - it is not. The combined effect of signal strength, snr and available bandwidth (let's call it signal quality) can fluctuate relatively rapidly which could make people uneasy about placing calls.

You don't need to decrypt anything to measure field strength.

There's lots of other potential factors including network congestion elsewhere, provider issues or even problems at the server he was trying to use. However, IP networks are something I do know about and so is less fun to speculate about on a forum ;)

Quite possibly, but the data rates and individual loads involved are generally much lower. Most traffic would be voice at a few 100 Kb/s for calls of a few minutes. You don't see many people trying to torrent gigabytes of data across 3G and they certainly don't expect the throughput you get from ADSL or cable connections.

Bah! Who cares about on-topic? In this thread? This close to (hopefully) receiving our devices?

The moment MPD deliver my phone and connect it to my new T-Mo contract, the better. << - There, I've done some on-topic, can we get back to the interesting conversations now?

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Which MDP T-m deal did you get? I don't know whether to go with Voda what they have up now, or wait and see if they get any T-m deals back...

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Kieron,

Just to cheer jaark up I answered that in another off topic thread. :)

24 months your plan 30+web. 600 mins unltd text and web. £35

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Haha :)

24 months!? Tied to the phone for two years - what if a successor comes out by then??

I'm worried about even going for an 18mnth!

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

18 month Combi-30 without Web'n'walk. Zero for the phone up front, £30 a month
I will then add Web'n'Walk plus onto this direct via T-Mo (MPD didn't do a W'n'W plus bundle)

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

+1 - Im planning on doing exactly the same...

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

That sounds great, exacly what I want, but now they only have Vodafone....

Don't know what to do :(

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Relax, I didn't "mean" it. I really appreciate your RF-related conversation, seriously. Nevermind, sorry for getting you in wrong mood...

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Aye. Just to make you feel even better, they made their T-Mo offerings worse shortly after I ordered :P

I ran the figures and this with an 18 month contract came out significantly cheaper than buying sim-less and getting a sim-only deal for 18 month.

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

lol, don't worry - was only messin' with ya - should have used a smiley ;)

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

But when the sequel to n900 comes out, what're we gonna do? :(

Re: N900 UK Networks
 

Try for a 6,000 post thread before launch?