Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

you are completely misinterpreting that article. no-where does it mention that the N900 will be running MeeGo.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Try thinking of it as 'a-meego', as in 'friend' in Spanish. That helps me get past the name :)

I have "A MeeGo Phone"...

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

i don't want a friend. i have friends, they're a pain in the arse - i want something that will bow to my commands!

apt-get, NAO!

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

"Oistano pointed to Nokia's N900, a Linux-based smartphone introduced last year, as an example of devices that would benefit from MeeGo" ...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2359259,00.asp

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

dunno why...but the word maemo sounds very cute like a kid with speech impairment. while meego sounds like "amigo" or "may i go" or me ego = my ego...

can maemo just absorb moblin and vice versa w/o changing the name??? moblin sounds cute too :p

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Hmm this puts me in a weird position. I was saving money on the phone and now this... Don't know whether I should still get it.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

That's a really good question, and along the same lines, does maemo.org even need to go away? Can't we plug into MeeGo as a support function?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

i would think that it would send a very muddled message if Nokia would continue to accumulate OS for their phones... Symbian, MeeGo, Maemo...something has to give.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Because MeeGo is based on Qt, allowing the apps to be easily back ported to Maemo 5 w/ Qt. Does that benifit the N900.....yes. Does it say it will run on the N900. No.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

That's not what I mean at all. I'm simply talking about the organization.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

But in the world of reality - even IF that would be possible - who will at the end of 2010, and beyond, backport applications to the N900 when the N9xx is already out - or about to come out?

Answer: The same amount of development effort that is currently spent on any other Nokia legacy device.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7lHPX_iHKs

new maemo apps (love the rollercoaster)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Reading 25 pages of this thread, I've seen a number of posts on the *political* advantages of this combination of *corporations* -- but I can't recall any posts describing what Moblin itself brings to the party. What does Moblin do better than Maemo? How is this technical hybrid better than if Intel had simply dropped Moblin and agreed to adopt Maemo, work on it with Nokia, and do the Linux Foundation thing?


(That is, how is it better apart from adding x86 support?)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I don't see that happening either. Talk.maemo.org is horrendously structured and as we've seen that's not going to change this side of hell-freezing-over.

I can't think of anything on maemo.org that would have value for a MeeGo venture.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Saner base platform. Maemo has diverged so far off into left field from Debian that it's basically become its own platform. Moblin brings back to having an upstream (MeeGo) that's up-to-date and sane.

Plus ConMan and such.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Would you mind to expand? I am not doubting you, just want to learn more.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

all that means is they have multiple devices with different demos installed which is the norm
N00 usually means it a internal device or pre-production

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Same here! :D

does that mean they fixed the payement issue in the ovi store?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

In the vid he said that its almost solved and 'its coming soon'

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Of course not. And quite contrary to the concept of community if you ask me. Utilizing governance principles, I would add that you carefully consider whether any particular Council even has the authority to dissolve the organization.

Yes, the same way we support Maemo and maemo.com, maybe? But maybe we should make that decision by way of referendum?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Maemo based itself on Debian from the beginning. Unfortunately, over time Nokia has introduced a lot of hackish modifications into the platform that have slowly caused divergence away from upstream (Debian) and failed to keep packages up to date (we're still on debhelper 5, upstream is at 7).

Basically, Maemo has become something that's only vaguely related to Debian and it affects people's ability to work with and on the platform.

Moblin, on the other hand, has a platform that uses up-to-date tools and doesn't have a tendency to compromise sanity to get a working product out the door.

Intel's bringing a strong platform expertise and Nokia's bringing the user experience.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

The moblin user experience isn't that bad either, which isn't surprising since some of the same people (eg the gang formerly known as Opened Hand) contributed to both.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Well, I've slept on this. And I still don't like it.

It's not that I mind about it being fedora not debian - to be honst, I don't understand all that enough to have an informed opinion.

It's not that nobody had the courtesy to give our five (yes, just five) elected representatives a 24 hour heads up, leaving poor Valerio to carry it all on his own.

It's not even that the new name embodies all that I despise most in the corproate marketing of technology.

It's that I'm no longer sure I shall belong.

The moblin 'community' is basically made up of intel employees.
The moblin 'community' has expressed interest in working with the Maemo developer community.

So far so good. But maemo.org is made up not only of developers and highly technically knowlegdeable people. Maemo.org includes, supports and values end users. Average bears.

Now, end users are a mixed blessing. We make a lot of noise and chatter. Some of us are useful contributers but frankly, some of us are not. A quick wander through t.m.o. quickly reveals the downside as well as the upside of having end users around. Heck, let's be honest, there are people in maemo.org who'd like to get rid of us! One or two individuals who would happily kill the forum completely to get back to the 'heart' of the comunity as they see it. (And I suspect they're already suggesting that Meego might provide just that opportunity.)

There are wise people saying that it's 'up to us' to shape the future, to decide what we want Meego to be. But is it? Honestly? If Intel said to Nokia "We want your community but get rid of the end users" would Nokia refuse? Would Maemo?

So I'll Wait and See. But I might be around just a little less, and I might be looking for a new 'home', just in case.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Nobody can make you go anywhere if you don't let them.

You may not be able to be on "talk.maemo.org", or it to even exist - but there is nothing stopping another N900 community-driven forum from springing up.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Thereby splitting the community into the development people in one place, and the end users in another. What makes maemo.org special is that we're all in the same (sometimes crowded and noisy) box together. Yes, I know the devs need places where they can be on their own for their complicated technical conversation: maemo.org allows for that.

But this place also provides a place where one can start a thread titled "Artists and designers - I need help" or "Game - a suggestion" and get the attention of people who can actually respond. Devs can bring their items to the table, get input, ideas, feedback and testers from ordinary users.

Splitting us into two communities would destroy something very valuable which maemo has created. I don't want a separate 'user community'.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

No fear Kathy!
We don't get splittet!
Everything will even get better!
I had a conversation this morning. It's a really good thing happening at the moment!

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Coming from most people I'd call Bull doodoo on "I had a conversation this morning" but I'll take that from you. As I say, I'm in 'wait and see' mode. But if this ends up dividing the techies from the bears into two communities, that would be a great tragedy, IMNSHO. And I for one don't need that.

I had a conversation this morning too: God said "Sorry, love, I have no sway over what Nokia do or say". :p

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I'm not worried at all about the future of all this. From a technical viewpoint, it's a perfect fit (even if the deb2rpm move might worry us a bit :-). In fact, the whole thing right now is probably more about marketing, platform momentum, big annnouncement and showing off. IMHO Maemo 6 / Harmattan already IS MeeGo, otherwise the announced release dates wouldn't be doable. And one of the most important elements of Maemo 6, which is QT 4.6, will come to Maemo5 in the next firmware update. Intel and Nokia also have experience working together on the oFono telephony framework which may be part of Maemo 6. And it will all be open.

I also sincerely believe that the "community" is overestimating itself heavily. Just look at the signal-to-noise ratio on the community list and in this forum. Make a list of results that the work of the Community Council really did produce. What brings a platform forward are two things:

• Openness and Accessibility (so people can tinker with it and have fun in a creative way).
• Developers developers developers (to quote Steve Ballmer :-). The people writing the applications you install. There are perhaps a 100-200 people writing apps for maemo right now (see that in relation to x0'000 users here in this forum (only a few hundred posting) and x00'000 of users with N900.)

MeeGo improves both these points. The platform opens even more, gets broader support and chances increase that more application development will happen.

Communities will arise automatically from that. Many other platforms have forums where devs and users meet. This isn't that special here. What IS special is that we have Nokians posting as Nokians. And if we take good enough care of them, they will hopefully be around in the future, too :)

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Still disliking the interpretational "Me Ego" part? Your intention may be good but your morals get in your way.

Reality Check: With Android (much more than Windows Mobile) there is no doubt that you as an end-user get seriously "bugged". It is not your own device, you may own the hardware, but it is Google's software which you "rent", and the payment method is usage content you generate. Now THAT's what >I< hate about the corporate world.

Nothing wrong with an brand name interpretation promising to make your device your own.

Nothing wrong with reestablishing the concept of SUBJECT in the mobile world. (It's a market gap indeed.)

A cloud based OS, a place where supposedly everyone must be happy, playing the harp unisono?
No thanks, instead bring back some "old-fashioned" egocentricity, please.

Alternatively, look at the "Ego" aspect the Freudian way.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

What about the 770 - N8x0 tablets?

From the original information I got the faint impression that talk.maemo.org will get a rebranding but is considered something they want to incorporate into the meeme gogoo package.

But that leaves the tablets stranded. Unless your 770s will get a much unexpected new OS update. But then, I'd rather put my money on that having to happen through a MER-like project. And the hardware doesn't fit the requirements, right?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

This morning I had a discussion with my dog about peeing quicker than he wanted to do.

See. That was as valuable as your post above.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Funny I read about this on Twitter last week, before the announcement. Chippy at UMPCportal said this is going to happen on the 4th Feb,

http://twitter.com/chippy/statuses/8653445679

Maybe he knows more...

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

I blogged something about this. Maemo.org can provide lots of valuable community infrastructure that MeeGo currently lacks. Talk, Brainstorm, Community Council and the Sprint process would be good places to start.

Providing a place for the community to form and interact is critical for integrating the large Maemo community with the goals of the MeeGo project.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

In a John McEnroe tone of voice:

You cannot be serious!

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Okay, that sucks, especially if you *have* to use non restricting licenses in userland, as that means that you cannot port loads of applications which are under the GPL. I f I don't misread that, that is not a smart move.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Chippy's trippy to Barcelona was paid for by Intel. He says as much on his website. I'm sure that means he knows more than I do at least.

When I look back there have been other signs of this deal such as the OFono development etc.

However, what has surprised me is not the deal as such. Rather it the perception that Maemo takes a back seat to Moblin, which many on here have commented on, and which I tend to agree with.
Maemo seems to be far more developed, has a much larger community and there are actual devices out there. The last demo I saw of Moblin on a phone, had me thinking that Maemo looked superior in terms of speed at least. Perhaps not a fair comparison as the Moblin UI demonstration was on a concept device only.

You know, there are four comments on the Moblin website regarding MeeGo. A very active community. The comments over there mirror the ones over here:

• Name related comments: MeeGo is a poor name and sad to see the old name go
• Doubting the benefit of a common phone/mid/netbook platform: What benefit will MeeGo have over Moblin on netbooks
• Why RPM

Still, as I summarize my perceptions, I have faith that Nokia management knows what it is doing. As far as I understand Maemo6 will still be launched and I read an interview with Nokia CEO Kallasvuo conducted yesterday at the MWC where he stated that while Nokia can become better at all levels, his highest desire is an extreme high end mobile phone device for advanced users. OK, so this means the N900 step 4 out of 5 certainly isn't it. Elsewhere I read that the first MeeGo phone will be out in 2012. So, I expect to see a Maemo6 device out as a stop gap. Nokia expect to sell around 6.75 million of those in 2011. It will be the device Kallasvuo speaks of, and it will be step 5. This will give Nokia and Intel the breathing room they need to get their MeeGo house in order.

A final reflection I have is: our reactions are pretty strong on this here forum. There's high hope but also a certain amount of despair. I can only imagine what it is like for the Maemo staff, certainly if our perception that Moblin takes precedence over Maemo is correct.

I believe that the MeeGo videos posted, where the Nokia staff talks about Moblin and the Moblin staff talks about Maemo were politically motivated to try to signalize both to the external market and developers, as well as to the internal staff that there's peace, harmony and everything is hunky dory.

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

There'll be some scheduled Q&A-sessions on Nokia-Conversation's Twitter account:

from twitter.com/nokconv

So everyone's invited asking about maemo-future from 12:00-12:15 CET

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

For Pete's sake: That is not a problem of the packaging format, but with people being promiscuous with their software stack.

And no, you cannot easily install rpms which aren't meant for your distribution, you have to force them on there. This is a complete Layer 8 problem and has NOTHING to do with the packaging format.

Can't people please get some clue before ranting about things?

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

Yuo can use this:
http://tweetchat.com/room/NokiaMWC To follow and join the discussions

Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 

*SIGH*

Show me one configuration file on RHEL or Fedora or OpenSuSE which isn't in /etc/ - just one.

So the interface descriptions migh now land in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-*

So where's the big difference?

Really.