Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Did I say it WAS compliant!? No I didnt!

But many of you dont say what is NOT compliant and make it look like Harmattan is something really bad cause it come from a company that want to "hurt the linux community" now when they decided to go WP7.

And the community seems to be not positive to include ANYTHING coming from Nokia now to Meego.

Even if they will opensource qt-components for handsets it will perhaps not be included in Meego 1.3. Cause "Nokia bad bvad evil company working with evil Microsoft".

And ofcourse Intel doing exaclty the same (both with Google and Microsoft) but thats not something anyone will discuss. Its only Nokia who is evil company. "We should not include anything coming from them!"

So sick of that way of thinking!

And people here think LG will come with some cool Meego handset on the conference!? Oh cmon! I am sure N900de is better than that LG prototypes used. AFAIK LG mainOS is still other OS:es not Meego.

Use your brains for ones sake! This is bussines. Every damn company wants profit in first place that also includes the "good Intel".

If Meego shall succes the community must accept closed blobs and some stuff comming from evil Nokia too.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Some of above statements is not correct see my reply.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

I'm just trying to inform you of the differences, there's a nice hefty document you can read if you want to see what it takes to be meego compliant.

Like I said, MTF is based on DUI, Harmattan is still using DUI afaik, unless they've completely ditched it for QML, which would be great but Harmattan may still have DUI. Qt Components and MeeGo UX Components are not API compatible (yet). It's MeeGos plan to use MeeGo UX (AKA MeeGo UX Components) across all profiles ultimately. You say it's not ready for handsets, where do you base that opinion from, I've been working with the N900 MeeGo Developer Edition team and MeeGo dialer folk to update the dialer application from MTF to QML (and MeeGo UX Components). We've all been discussing how great it would be to have DE based on MeeGo UX Components, so I'm not sure where your info. is coming from.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

He was talking about my post I believe ...

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

On I side note, the confusion you (mikec) and others' are having is exactly the reason we were debating Nokias rebranding of Maemo 6 Harmattan to MeeGo/Harmattan, because where it counts, they _are_ dissimilar.

Now, why would you or I want to buy this device, well, from my perspective I want to continue supporting Nokia and they FOSS developments, even if it's being side lined. Also, it's a natural successor to the N900 which means we will have another MeeGo proper target platform with updated hardware. So even if it comes with Harmattan out-of-the-box, it's worth it to me because it'll be a great new platform to port MeeGo to.

And maybe, just maybe, Nokia will update it to a proper Nokia fully MeeGo compliant platform in the future. Otherwise it is a nice stepping stone from Maemo to MeeGo for developers to use.

I imagine now it's confirmed to be called the N950 (though I guess no one is sure yet) this naming rather than the original N9 name is because Nokia think making it sound like the N900 will stop those users that tend to jump on new and shiny to think twice after their experiences with the N900 (step 4/5).

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Well if the plan is to use Meego-UX instead of Nokias Qt-components its up to the community but none of them is still "compliant"

That means its ok today to call Harmattan "Meego Compliant" in that case.

But I still question you about "they still using DUI"? Why would they? Its just plain stupid imho. But if they do the question is if they break compliance by doing so? I dont think so as long as the standard libs are in place (in this case Qt)

You also forget the facts that Meego-UX-components is based on , QT-Componets, But they maybe not API compatible and in a way I agree this is a mistake from both Intel and escpecially Nokia, but also the community that havent fully decided what is best API yet.

To me it just looks like "we shall not use Qt-componets cause Nokia is Evil" and you and other devs has decided to go Meego-UX even on Handset, even if Nokia approach may be better in handset and hopefully compatible in longer run. Facts is non of us known how qt-components integrates on Handset YET cause its new API is not yet released in GIT (wish is BAD ofcourse but still we should give it a try)

And yes I agree Nokia has done stupid decions in the way how they communicates with opensource but again: We should spread fact instead of just rumors :-)

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

@mikecomputing Ville Vainio said, and I quote, "Harmattan is not MeeGo compliant at all" so I gather it's just that. not compliant.

I posted the link to the mailinglist stuff in this thread already. Here.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Hmm okay does this Ville working on Nokia? I mean does he have fully info whats not compliant? Etc..

Would be intresting to know this. Hopefully Nokia will clarify whats not on conference.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Urm, what? If the MeeGo project says MeeGo UX (Components) is required to be compliant, then yes, it is required to be compliant. But no, Qt Components and MeeGo UX are not what stops Harmattan being compliant. What stops Harmattan being compliant is the lack of any of the MeeGo APIs (save Qt). Just go back to the incomplete list of differences I documented earlier, those are the middle ware APIs that are important in having compliance.

No, it's not. I don't think you understand what is happening wrt Harmattan and gaining MeeGo compliance. I'll give you a brief:

Harmattan is not MeeGo compliant, Nokia know this, MeeGo community know this, and you should accept that. Now, Nokia want a waiver from the MeeGo project to (falsely imo) have permission to state that Harmattan is MeeGo compliant, it isn't we all know this but Nokia are arguing that it's acceptible in this case, because they both have compatible Qt APIs which is where most developers will live.

Now, with those points hopefully clarified. Would you say that kubuntu is MeeGo compliant, because it has an up to date Qt. I'd hope not. And Harmattan actually has more in common with kubuntu (upstart, deb, etc.) than MeeGo.

Using DUI wouldn't break compliance. Why would Nokia use DUI? Because Harmattan, for the last f'ing four years has had DUI. That was the whole point, Harmattan step 5/5, DUI replacing Hildon.

Especially Nokia? Are you ******ed? Qt Components is being developed in the open, it was MeeGo UX that was behind closed doors, both are open now.

Don't put words in peoples' mouths, what dev has said Nokia are evil? What dev has said that is the reason we're not using Qt Components? MeeGo UX Components is the future for MeeGo appment. MeeGo UX Components will align with and hopefully merge with Qt Components.

Replying to your crap on an N900 is very time consuming so excuse me if I'm being a bit blunt.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Why? Why is this so important to you? and if it is so important why don't you read the bloody compliance doc instead of gesticulating your own guesses and opinions (which have mostly been rubbish) ...

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

MythBuntu is also not Ubuntu compliant(I think). But it has an easy migrator which can migrate ubuntu apps with a simple process.

EDIT:Also you said that this device will be announced in May 17th at the nokia conference. Then I should say we are also close to the MS Tech Ed :p

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

this thread is way off topic..

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

...MeeGo? ...Maemo? ...Harmattan? ...MeeGo 1.x / Maemo 6?

****! Who cares!? :mad:

The differences doesn't matter that much. It's Linux!
And thanks god not Windows Phone... so please, stay together and stop this discussion. It's the N900 successor. And a step more in the MeeGo direction. The step 5 of 5.
There are enought similarities. And it should be more open than WebOS. Open the Shell and take over the system until it fits your needs. Period.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Yes and yes. Once someone has the device all will become clear :) can't wait!

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

What I meant was none of those UI is yet decided. Means not added to compliance list.

You may have a pointe but would be intresting too know what is not compliant at the end. None of us really know. But it seems to mee you and many others takes your own conclussions on facts that was 2009 when we all knows things has changed since then.

Example: BusyBox instead of Bash. again I dont see any reason they used BBox its 2011 now not 2009. I guess even Android is using full bash/corelibs now.

I also rtemember Nokia and Intel was talking about systemd.


But to me it looks like the community sometime "want" Nokia to break compliance. Just give an example the decision to go EvolutionDataServer instead of tracker. Intresting was this change was announced some weeks after 11 february.... Wtf? I mean how the hell would Nokia have a chance to integrate this its soon tyo be released device? I am sure this would have been discussed alot more before they did this decions if it had'nt been because of Mr Elop...

Yes true but stuff has changed since then. QtQuick was introduces as main API and they may dish it DUI totally. Reason: They already said in sept that libmeegotouch(= DUI) was deprecated.

DUI git here:

http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework wish then was:

renamed to libmeegotouch(now deprecated but still some OSS devs playing with it):

http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/libmeegotouch

libmeegotouch deprecated in favour of

http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components

But is there is no meego based commits for month by Nokia. Kate said it will soon be released public on meego mailinglists. I take that as qt-componets is the main UI also on Harmattan! not some wierd old "DUI"

See above...

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Intresting you saying "guessing" well I can say exatly the same too you! We have to wait and see.

End of this pointless discussion.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

You could say the same, but unless stated otherwise everything I've said has been based on real information that has either come out in direct conversations I've been involved with or publically discussed. Yours seem to be out of thin air ...

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Really, the only thing that matters is easy interoperability of software between OSs. If it has that, it doesn't matter what is under the hood.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

I used to worry about the Meego vs Harmattan debacle in the same way.
Not any longer. And the main reason is that I've found Meego _itself_ to be even more inconsistent.

Meego on the days we started to know what the Harmattan stack would look like is at least as different from today's Meego stack as those days' Harmattan stack was. At this point, I'm willing to say that the entire DEB vs RPM difference is a minimal nuisance when it is at stake even the way applications will be spawned.

So I bet Harmattan is an example of the Meego-ish things that will come instead of the outdated mess many people believe it to be.


Either way. There is clearly a plan to deal with all of the Meego inconsistencies between platforms which is to do the core logic once and implement one UI per platform.

And us slightly lower-level guys where already pretty much tied to the Harmattan way of life whatever Meego came up to be, so no worries either...

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

I agree completely, I hope they've bought a few more parts of MeeGo over for the sake of compliance, we know they're using hardfp like we do for the arm MeeGo adaptation. But I'm sure ABI compatibility will be a bit too much to ask ;)

otoh, things like not using ofono really annoy me because otherwise we could have ported across my qml meego dialer :/

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

hmm doesnt the QtMobility have API for dialing? So application developers doesnt have to play with lowlevel stacks?

Dont misunderstand me now I dont want start a flamewar with you on this just wondering. Cause imho Qtmobility should have such apis.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

I am not aware of a Qt Mobility API for dialing, there may be a function call like "dial" but nothing more indepth which I'd require for my dialer.

Also, Qt Mobility is not an official MeeGo platform API ;)

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

So far, you've been proven quite wrong numerous times in this thread. Unless you supply links from reputable locations and news sources, I'll continue to believe that you're inherently wrong and other, more involved folks are just that much more right.

And I mean facts, not opinions. You can continue to believe you're right.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

I can't be so cavalier - wish I could - because I understand where you're talking about the inconsistencies... at the OS level.

I'm actually talking about at a developer/vendor level. And as invariably more correct about things than I am; not seeing any commitments from any 3rd party developers that have committed their software to this platform, it stands the chance of being orphaned or relegated to being dependent on an open source port that can compile to the ISA of processor choice... that's a bit more dependent on the FOSS community that has yet to deliver a few things that I require.

Who knows though. Perhaps the community will step from the N900 to the next iteration in a much faster speed and with far more polished results and applications than with the N900 - The One Ring, fMMS, fCamera and a few others come to mind as the must-have things from the community that were better than most commercial offerings.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Umm... Solaris?
They have a binary-compatibility guarantee for same-architecture releases, and source code guarantee for cross-platform code.
Solaris 10 has had 9 releases since 2005.

The company that takes 3-4 years to make a release definitely does not provide any compatibility guarantees at all. In fact, you have to buy one of their most expensive releases just to get an emulator to run software written for the previous release.
This company's products are not allowed in my house. :)
(I use Solaris & Linux, my wife uses OSX and IOS)

* - OK, I admit, I'm forced to use the ugly bugfest OS on my work computer.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

I'm really excited about the N9's potential. I hope the hardware delivers though, it's going to be difficult making the same leap in phone functionality as the N900 did for me. If it's going to be basically the same thing save for hardware, then I'm keeping my N900.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Funny because I was thinking of specifically Solaris. Backward / forward compatibility was a moving target for Solaris. They did as good a job as they could and spent tons of money to do it. Certainly wasn't perfect. I think managing migration is a smarter strategy in this fast moving world. Light weight phone apps are different than enterprise apps.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Translation:

The Hardware is good but the support will SUCK.

Sorry, but thats the exact line that was run before for the N900.

I will wait and see this time - no preorders for me.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

I remember very clearly when meego was first announced, everybody here was a little bit bitter their beloved maemo would eventually die, yet everyone was relieved there would be one last device, the harmattan device. Why all of a sudden maemo has become the obsolete thing nobody wants? And why two years later everybody assumes harmattan is just a fremantle makeover. When we got the N900 we knew we are getting a device with an OS of its own with all that follows. We hoped it will be the future, but we knew nothing. There was no info as if M6 would work on the N900. Now we are getting a working real meego release, obviously there will be one for the Nwhatever, so why the long face?

Hildon UI is one of the best UI's out there that could even work for netbooks and Meego's vanilla ui isn't that nice (more of a bastard android-iphone child). If you ask me, I'm happy we will finally get Maemo 6, it will be more open than 5 and it has a nicer name (so I hope the Meego folks don't cut them the slack)
________
VOLCANO VAPORIZER

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

It’s all about the hardware.

What we need is hardware that will be relevant in 2 years time like our much-loved n900 is. The OS can be improved over time with help from this community (as has been shown). The n900 is still a fantastic piece of technology that is relevant today (JUST). If NOKIA can deliver a device (like they did N900) which will last 2/3years in terms of technology and build quality - then I for one will be getting one.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

The sun'll come out, tomorrow,
Bet your bottom dollar, that tomorrow,
There'll be sun.

Just thinkin' about, tomorrow,
Clears away the cobwebs and the sorrow, till' there's none.

When I'm stuck with a day, that's grey and lonely,
I just stick out my chin, and grin, and say.

Oh, the sun'll come out tomorrow,
So you gotta' hang on till' tomorrow,
Come what may.

Tomorrow tomorrow, I love you tomorrow,
You're only a day away.

The sun'll come out, tomorrow,
Bet your bottom dollar, that tomorrow,
There'll be sun.

Just thinkin' about, tomorrow,
Clears away the cobwebs and the sorrow, till' there's none.

When I'm stuck with a day, that's grey and lonely,
I just stick out my chin, and grin, and say.

Oh, the sun'll come out tomorrow,
So you gotta' hang on till' tomorrow,
Come what may.

Tomorrow tomorrow, I love you tomorrow,
You're always a day away.

Tomorrow tomorrow, I love you tomorrow,
You're only a day away.

The sun'll come out, tomorrow,
Bet your bottom dollar, that tomorrow,
There'll be sun.

Just thinkin' about, tomorrow,
Clears away the cobwebs and the sorrow, till' there's none,

When I'm stuck with a day, that's grey and lonely,
I just stick out my chin, and grin, and say,

Oh, the sun'll come out tomorrow,
So you gotta' hang on till' tomorrow,
Come what may.

Tomorrow tomorrow, I love you tomorrow,
You're always a day away.

Tomorrow tomorrow, I love you tomorrow,
You're only a day away. (x10)

common tomorrow is the bloody 18thwould it kill you all to keep your keyboard to your selves and stop raving on about meego vs harmattan about until then
after nokia makes its statement then knock your selves out posting for all i care but till then stop posting about a phone that all you have seen of is a sketch of the back humph
P.S was it overkill to qoute the entire song

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

what happens tomorrow? :p

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Nothing relevant to this thread I imagine...

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Apparently the sun'll come out :D

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

I might have to eat my words..

Was out for a drink with a friend last night and at a table just across from ours i spotted what looked like an E7.. anyway, while i went up to the bar to get a drink it's owner was there too.. so i said hi and enquired how he was finding the E7 (taking out my N900 at the same time)

He replied, "well, it's not exactly an E7"

It turns out this guy is fairly high up at the Nokia Siemens office and had a N950..

Although it's not officially going to be called that yet "that's for marketing to decide" as he put it..

I had a quick go on the phone...

It feels instantly familiar to the Maemo 5 user.. but.. it doesn't look like it.. or MeeGo for that matter..

I could quickly get around the menu (bear in mind that it was his phone so i had to respect his privacy by not opening everything)

It's as slick as WP7 in terms or speed and how things open.. it's really impressive!

I could see the hdmi port at the bottom.. but i don't know how many MP the camera has.. it looks significantly sharper than the N900 though..

The screen looks huge as well.. maybe more than 4"

I wanted to stalk the guy afterwards.. :) but it was literally a 2 min conversation so i couldn't get any more info..

I don't care how much this thing costs... I want one!

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

But only for about 12 hours...

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

tomorrow is the 17th and nokia is going to anounce something important or atleast they said they would

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

where?

edit: I know there is a rumor that Nokia would announce something tomorrow.
Some made up it will be MeeGo-related, but please keep in mind that there is no official announcement just yet, so don't be disappointed.

Re: N9 hits FCC???
 

Where is the announcemenmt being made is it a online launch only? or is there a real event?