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-   -   Another proof Elop is a trojan horse (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74660)

patlak 2011-07-09 17:51
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson
I mean lighten up, phones are like women, they come in all colors and shapes, and they all got their charm, and are all enjoyable in their own way. They all need to be touched and tasted :D There are exceptions though. The iPhone - far from enjoyable as well as most Androids :mad:
VIRGIN alert!!!!!!!!

patlak 2011-07-09 17:55
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1047858)
I'm a trojan horse.
Stretch your butthole so that Elop can get in :D:p

Dave999 2011-07-09 17:56
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
i'm a trojan horse.

BigBadGuber! 2011-07-09 18:03
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1047854)
This thread has really turned into a circus, and now danramos the clown has entered as well. But be quiet, don't tell him, he doesn't know it himself.

Can't we just wait and see how these Nokia-WP phones will be? Will they succeed, will they not, it's all speculation. No one knows either way.

But Elop a trojan? far from it. Nokia see him as the one to get the wheels rolling, so Nokia can produce some high end devices. Microsoft see him as "their guy", if for no other reasons than he (and Nokia) is the key to get the wheels on WP rolling. It is a win-win situation.

As I have said before. The first Nokia-WP with HW keyboard is mine. Right now I have a Samsung Wave (bada rox, but 2.0 takes for ever to be released :( ), I have a N900 that has served me well during the last 1 1/2 year, I have my E6 which probably will be all I need for several years. But things move and changes. Symbian will be gone, WP will take over. It's cool, then I can go all sentimental over the perfect E6 while writing nonsense on TMO on my flashy new WP :D

I mean lighten up, phones are like women, they come in all colors and shapes, and they all got their charm, and are all enjoyable in their own way. They all need to be touched and tasted :D There are exceptions though. The iPhone - far from enjoyable as well as most Androids :mad:
Very well said. And after owning and buying for others over 40 NOKIA phones, I have to say there were moments of pure orgasm. But every ride has its end. This is a childish thread, written by immature and truly hateful people. Can you imagine if this was written on an apple forum? It would be down in 5 minutes.

BigBadGuber! 2011-07-09 18:04
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by patlak (Post 1047859)
Stretch your butthole so that Elop can get in :D:p
I think you meant to say MISTERC!, your lover boy

ericsson 2011-07-09 18:06
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by patlak (Post 1047857)
VIRGIN alert!!!!!!!!
Well patlak. You know of course that we now can pinpoint you to be either a girl or a homosexual. Not that it is anything wrong with being homosexual. or a girl for that matter :D I am simply stating the oh so obvious facts.

patlak 2011-07-09 18:08
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1047868)
Not that it is anything wrong with being homosexual. or a girl for that matter :D
So which one are you???

Dave999 2011-07-09 18:10
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! (Post 1047866)
Very well said. And after owning and buying for others over 40 NOKIA phones, I have to say there were moments of pure orgasm. But every ride has its end. This is a childish thread, written by immature and truly hateful people. Can you imagine if this was written on an apple forum? It would be down in 5 minutes.
For a guy that owned over 40 nokia phones you behave very immature, childish. You are NOT looking for a solution to the problem. Running around here and crying "pre Elop" I'm not even sure why you here. But since you don't like the thread and the immuture and hatefull poeple, I expect that you leave this thread and maybe the whole forum?

gerbick 2011-07-09 18:17
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
And this is the kind of stuff that gets threads closed... seriously.

Dave999 2011-07-09 18:22
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Yes, But it might be time to close the thread. The discussion is long gone.

BigBadGuber! 2011-07-09 18:42
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1047871)
For a guy that owned over 40 nokia phones you behave very immature, childish. You are NOT looking for a solution to the problem. Running around here and crying "pre Elop" I'm not even sure why you here. But since you don't like the thread and the immuture and hatefull poeple, I expect that you leave this thread and maybe the whole forum?
Join the nokia salesforce or board, perhaps then you will know the real problems and solutions

misterc 2011-07-09 19:13
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by patlak (Post 1047855)
In the words of Jobs: "there is an app for that!!!!"

An app might help him find the rabbit hole :D
do you think there is an App to put ppl on the ignore list, too?
;)

ericsson 2011-07-09 19:26
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1047899)
do you think there is an App to put ppl on the ignore list, too?
;)
You don't need apps, this is the internet :D But then again, you could always get a S40 with web-apps :rolleyes:

Daneel 2011-07-09 20:01
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
BigBadGuber and ericsson are the progeny of abill_uk.

Good luck with the Nokia shares, hope you are prepared, if not, here's a hint.

http://www.holytaco.com/25-awsome-homeless-guy-signs/

misterc 2011-07-09 20:06
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterprise Mobility: 10 Mobile Products Nobody Wants
link
It hard to select any one Windows Phone 7-based mobile device that's most unpopular with consumers and enterprise users. That's because none of the products are selling well, and speculation abounds that Windows Phone 7 might be dead before it even gets going. The issues with Windows Phone 7 are numerous, including issues with updating, multitasking and more. Microsoft is promising big things in its upcoming Mango update, but will it be too late?
the wp7 snippet is the... 7th
right after that (8th, thus)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterprise Mobility: 10 Mobile Products Nobody Wants
The Nokia N9 isn't even out yet and it's already clear that people around the globe just aren't all that excited about it. For one, the N9 is based on MeeGo, a Linux-based operating system that most consumers have never even heard of. Plus, Nokia's other smartphones continue to have trouble appealing to customers that are more intrigued by Apple's iPhone or various Android models. The Nokia N9 might just be dead on arrival.
great job Flop! :mad:

NokTokDaddy 2011-07-09 20:38
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1047708)
you seem to have a hard time keeping things apart.
m$ may be dominant in the PC market.
in the mobile phone market... >/nul
granted, you are not the only one making this mistake.
  • The point I was making was that Nokia needed Microsoft a bit more than Microsoft needed Nokia. Prior to Feb 11th, WP7 was the bright young thing of Mobile, but Symbian was seen as the dinosaur stuck in the tar lake. If there was any disparity in the deal, it would not surprise me that Nokia had to give up a bit more than they'd have liked.

    At the end of the day, I don't think either party came out the loser - they both entered into a win-win agreement.

    Incidentally, I am a loyal and current Symbian user day-to-day and will continue to be so until something better (for me) comes along. That may be WP7.5 or something else; unlike you I have an open mind.


"why push the wp message if there is such a brand loyality & customers don't care what OS it is running, as long as there is NOKIA standing on it?

you are contradicting yourself in a single post
try keeping them shorter, maybe?"

  • No, I stated that customers are largely oblivious of what OS is on their device, NOT that they don't know what they like in the way a device works. Brand loyalty goes a long way, but if you see all your friends enjoying a better mobile experience that loyalty is tested.

    More than ever before, users are seeking easy-to-use and engaging devices and Nokia felt Symbian could not deliver that long-term.

    We can see that Meego/Harmattan can deliver that experience, but Nokia decided that developing an ecosystem to include apps and services to compete effectively with Android and iOS within a reasonable timescale and at acceptable cost was just not as attractive as joining Microsoft and other manufacturers to combine their forces.

    So no - it doesn't matter which OS Nokia adopted so long as it delivers customer delight and has a strong ecosystem around it.

    Of course WP does not have all of that yet, but the building blocks of Zune, X-Box, Office aand other services are already there; how could the Meego option deliver all that within time and reasonable cost?




"just because they changed the name from mobile to portable doesn't make it a new product; it is still the same old buggy software that hasn't been able to gain any significant market share in over 10 years. during those 10 years, NOKIA single handedly created the smart phone & had a de facto monopoly 'til the competition got around to it too. but not m$, nope.
and it is not by lack of companies having tried, neither;
two years before NOKIA made this mistake LG entered an "exclusive" agreement w/ m$ according to which LG is still supposed to have 50 (fifty) wm (then) devices in its assortment by 2012;
a couple months ago, LG jumped onto the MeeGo bandwagon. and m$ may deem itself lucky if LG has even only 5 wp devices next year."

  • Are you really saying that WP7 is the same as 6.5 in terms of UI and UX? Have you had your head in the sand of late? Have you not read the weight of opinion from expert industry commentators as far apart as Rafe Blandford from All About Symbian to Myriam Joire at Engadget?

    Windows Phone 7 or even 7.5 might not suit you. It might not suit me - I still have reservations about my ability to live with it as it's described, but it is pretty much universally praised for its UI and UX.

    The underlying OS may well be buggy - it is new and has not yet had its first major update.

    And what point are you trying to make about LG? Do you really think there is any linkage between their deal with Microsoft and Nokia's?

    That was then; this is now.



"bottom line being that the m$ is the winner & NOKIA is losing any chance to survive once wp has confirmed yet again it has no market appeal.
well, considering the "loyality"as you say, respectively, the situation of most dumb phone markets world wide, they may still recover making & selling S40 devices where infrastructure for "smart phones" (3/4G mostly) is simply not available."

  • Understand this: If Nokia do fail at WP, Microsoft probably will as well. No other manufacturer is in a position to take on WP like Nokia are - they are all firmly committed to Android. And do you really believe any of them would want to take on WP if Nokia fail?

    It is in Microsoft's best interests to work with Nokia and the other WP7 manufacturers to ensure its success. And as you are so keen to use your $ key in relation to Microsoft, you can be assured they'll be throwing millions of $'s to make this work.

    As you will know, mobile is the future of computing, and Microsoft need this to work.

    Nokia and MS are mutually tied to the future of WP as principal partners. Other manufacturers are needed to help build the ecosystem and offer diverse WP products in the market - that is one of the attractions for Nokia: by partnering with other mfrs they can help build a third ecosystem, and that has to be good for competition and therefore good for the end user.

    That is why they have contributed elements like Nokia Maps; this will be a major asset to owning a WP device just like it is to owning a Nokia right now. As more devices come to market from all the manufacturers and traction build, more app developers will be attracted to develop for the growing market.

    It's the old saying:

    "you have to speculate to accumulate"

danramos 2011-07-10 06:40
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Eerily ponderous... just eerie. Just need to replace the Apple logo with NOKIA... :)

http://www.invisblegt.net/trojan_horse.gif

patlak 2011-07-10 07:23
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1048092)
Eerily ponderous... just eerie. Just need to replace the Apple logo with NOKIA... :)

http://www.invisblegt.net/trojan_horse.gif
Why would you replace the logo? Apple is Elop's new patient.
Start a new thread about Apple :p

qwazix 2011-07-10 15:33
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy (Post 1047936)
  • The point I was making was that Nokia needed Microsoft a bit more than Microsoft needed Nokia. Prior to Feb 11th, WP7 was the bright young thing of Mobile, but Symbian was seen as the dinosaur stuck in the tar lake. If there was any disparity in the deal, it would not surprise me that Nokia had to give up a bit more than they'd have liked.

    At the end of the day, I don't think either party came out the loser - they both entered into a win-win agreement.

    Incidentally, I am a loyal and current Symbian user day-to-day and will continue to be so until something better (for me) comes along. That may be WP7.5 or something else; unlike you I have an open mind.


"why push the wp message if there is such a brand loyality & customers don't care what OS it is running, as long as there is NOKIA standing on it?

you are contradicting yourself in a single post
try keeping them shorter, maybe?"

  • No, I stated that customers are largely oblivious of what OS is on their device, NOT that they don't know what they like in the way a device works. Brand loyalty goes a long way, but if you see all your friends enjoying a better mobile experience that loyalty is tested.

    More than ever before, users are seeking easy-to-use and engaging devices and Nokia felt Symbian could not deliver that long-term.

    We can see that Meego/Harmattan can deliver that experience, but Nokia decided that developing an ecosystem to include apps and services to compete effectively with Android and iOS within a reasonable timescale and at acceptable cost was just not as attractive as joining Microsoft and other manufacturers to combine their forces.

    So no - it doesn't matter which OS Nokia adopted so long as it delivers customer delight and has a strong ecosystem around it.

    Of course WP does not have all of that yet, but the building blocks of Zune, X-Box, Office aand other services are already there; how could the Meego option deliver all that within time and reasonable cost?




"just because they changed the name from mobile to portable doesn't make it a new product; it is still the same old buggy software that hasn't been able to gain any significant market share in over 10 years. during those 10 years, NOKIA single handedly created the smart phone & had a de facto monopoly 'til the competition got around to it too. but not m$, nope.
and it is not by lack of companies having tried, neither;
two years before NOKIA made this mistake LG entered an "exclusive" agreement w/ m$ according to which LG is still supposed to have 50 (fifty) wm (then) devices in its assortment by 2012;
a couple months ago, LG jumped onto the MeeGo bandwagon. and m$ may deem itself lucky if LG has even only 5 wp devices next year."

  • Are you really saying that WP7 is the same as 6.5 in terms of UI and UX? Have you had your head in the sand of late? Have you not read the weight of opinion from expert industry commentators as far apart as Rafe Blandford from All About Symbian to Myriam Joire at Engadget?

    Windows Phone 7 or even 7.5 might not suit you. It might not suit me - I still have reservations about my ability to live with it as it's described, but it is pretty much universally praised for its UI and UX.

    The underlying OS may well be buggy - it is new and has not yet had its first major update.

    And what point are you trying to make about LG? Do you really think there is any linkage between their deal with Microsoft and Nokia's?

    That was then; this is now.



"bottom line being that the m$ is the winner & NOKIA is losing any chance to survive once wp has confirmed yet again it has no market appeal.
well, considering the "loyality"as you say, respectively, the situation of most dumb phone markets world wide, they may still recover making & selling S40 devices where infrastructure for "smart phones" (3/4G mostly) is simply not available."

  • Understand this: If Nokia do fail at WP, Microsoft probably will as well. No other manufacturer is in a position to take on WP like Nokia are - they are all firmly committed to Android. And do you really believe any of them would want to take on WP if Nokia fail?

    It is in Microsoft's best interests to work with Nokia and the other WP7 manufacturers to ensure its success. And as you are so keen to use your $ key in relation to Microsoft, you can be assured they'll be throwing millions of $'s to make this work.

    As you will know, mobile is the future of computing, and Microsoft need this to work.

    Nokia and MS are mutually tied to the future of WP as principal partners. Other manufacturers are needed to help build the ecosystem and offer diverse WP products in the market - that is one of the attractions for Nokia: by partnering with other mfrs they can help build a third ecosystem, and that has to be good for competition and therefore good for the end user.

    That is why they have contributed elements like Nokia Maps; this will be a major asset to owning a WP device just like it is to owning a Nokia right now. As more devices come to market from all the manufacturers and traction build, more app developers will be attracted to develop for the growing market.

    It's the old saying:

    "you have to speculate to accumulate"
Yes, that is probably what they speculated. It is that, however what most of us here (and most of the stock traders) believe is not gonna work.

shallimus 2011-07-10 21:06
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Even by my standards, this thread is now TL; DR.

misterc 2011-07-12 11:37
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shallimus (Post 1048480)
Even by my standards, this thread is now TL; DR.
for me it is IDGO;TBF :D

danramos 2011-07-13 04:46
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
WTF is this?

misterc 2011-07-13 06:58
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1049941)
WTF is this?
my point, exactly :D

misterc 2011-07-13 08:47
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy (Post 1047936)
[...]
tiresome to keep pointing out to you your own contradictions, either directly in or between posts or in the logic of your statements;
like

Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy (Post 1047936)
[...]
The point I was making was that Nokia needed Microsoft a bit more than Microsoft needed Nokia. Prior to Feb 11th, WP7 was the bright young thing of Mobile, but Symbian was seen as the dinosaur stuck in the tar lake. If there was any disparity in the deal, it would not surprise me that Nokia had to give up a bit more than they'd have liked.
[...]
since when is m$ a charitable organisation?
Billy the Gates (& wife) may be trying to redeem themselves with a foundation and the like, but i don't think Balmer got that far, yet.
if m$ was still so much the big thing to come back then, why would m$ have poured millions of $$$$$$ into NOKIA?

you are entitled to your delusions as the ones who like me believe wp will be a total failure or at least are very sceptical about its chances, with or without NOKIA, are entitled to their opinions...

jo21 2011-07-13 08:57
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy (Post 1047647)
  • I could put that the other way around, but we'll never know know. All we do know is thet even before Elop Nokia & Symbian were in trouble and under attach from critics - just like they are now, in fact...


"Certainly you can see it in the stock price: most think Symbian is dead and that there is little to look forward to with Nokia."
  • If most thought Symbian was dead it would not be selling as well as it still is, so I do not agree. Just look at how many millions of devices Nokia are still selling; most buyers are ignorant of the political wranglings and just see more devices coming from Nokia. Most of them will be ignorant of the platform or OS used.

    I am not denying that Symbian's market share and stock is falling, but that does not matter to the average individual who goes into the store to buy their next phone. Nokia has a huge following with a corresponding brand loyalty; do not confuse that with the platform or OS.

    Symbian sales will fall further, I have no doubt. But Symbian is so big Nokia can carry that loss for quite some time. New developments like Anna and Belle will add appeal whilst Nokia build interest in their WP devices. We know there will be new Symbian devices until about 2014 and support will continue until 2016 at least.

    By that time Windows Phone will be fully established, fully featured and fully supported in the markets.


"Fact is Elop royally ****ed up in that he made such an announcement without having another product to fill the gap. A few months later and we still don't really know when Nokia will release their first Windows Phone. Meanwhile, the N9 is coming out and Elop has done a lot to undercut that. Who the hell thinks that's a smart way to run a business?"
  • Only time will tell. A plan needs time to play out and it's early days yet. We can't call this a good or bad plan until Nokia have had at least a year selling WP devices. To write off any plan this early is an emotional response that is not tempered with reason.


"Which, again, benefits Microsoft more than it does Nokia".
  • Nokia were the weaker party, Microsoft the stronger; That's buisiness. Nokia do get value out of the relationship; the ratio does not matter unless you're looking at this from an emotional perspective. Like I said, this is business.


"Given the new direction, they might as well be unrecoverable for the purposes of this forum. We were drawn to the power of Maemo and the promise of its potential. Elop seems to be doing everything possible to kill that dream, with nothing to replace it. It certainly won't be Windows Phone."
  • I think Elop might be our best hope in the long run. The fact that the N9 will make it to market and the fact that the N950 is a developer phone suggests to me that despite Elop's understandable focus on WP, devices like the N9 have a future at Nokia.

    Right now he has to keep pushing the WP message. Every new product, every new technology and feature from Nokia must carry the WP message in some way, but read between the lines:

    I do not believe Nokia will discard the N9 approach. They may not develop Meego further - that is something else, but I can see value and potential for a more Maemo-like platform (i.e. an entirely Nokia, but still open-source OS) with maybe one or two devices a year to showcase disruptive technologies and developments.



"Speaking as a Nokia stockholder, I'm also disappointed in that aspect, because I'm wondering when Nokia is going to come out with a product that they are going to be fully behind. Certainly not for the rest of this year."
  • Earlier you were criticising Elop for focussing entirely on WP and now you're saying he is not fully behind anything at the same time? You can't have it both ways!

we actually can, look at samsung , htc, lg, etc etc wp7 sales.

nokia at much may double that.
still poor sales.

microsoft needed nokia for nokia need microsoft

they could have keep meego or go android.

reason microsoft is paying BILLIONS for timed exclusivity, like they always do, thankfully that plan have ALWAYS failed.

failed with the xbox in japan and many games.

microsoft pretty much expects to wp7 to be carried by the nokia brand like Symbian is right now.

but symbian is fully featured, ugly but can do everything.

wp7 never.

misterc 2011-07-13 09:13
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1050001)
[...] microsoft is paying BILLIONS for timed exclusivity, like they always do, thankfully that plan have ALWAYS failed.[...]
you appreciate the implications of
Quote:

exclusivity {with NOKIA} [CLOSE TO] failed
don't you?

casper27 2011-07-13 12:48
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by casper27 (Post 1046667)

Still my favorite picture this year:D
Offtopic but

This picture has now been replaced by this one. Anyone who read any of his stupid threads will agree.

danramos 2011-07-14 09:25
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1049976)
my point, exactly :D
http://shawn.ocia.net/photos/lolcat4.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by casper27 (Post 1050121)
Offtopic but

This picture has now been replaced by this one. Anyone who read any of his stupid threads will agree.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_b3GHoGMBNp...0/lolcat24.jpg

misterc 2011-07-15 21:22
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1050748)
[...]
Microsoft says it will have a ‘single ecosystem’ for PCs, tablets, phones, and TVs… and is ‘Windows’ dead?

Quote:
Here’s the quote from Microsoft Windows Phone President Andy Lees from his partner-show keynote this week that has many buzzing:
Quote:
One of the key important things here, though, is the change that’s yet to happen, but it’s about to happen, and that is the bringing together of these devices into a unified ecosystem, because at the core of the device itself it’s possible to be common across phones, PCs, and TVs, and even other things, because the price drops dramatically. Then it will be a single ecosystem. We won’t have an ecosystem for PCs, and an ecosystem for phones, one for tablets. They’ll all come together. And just look at the opportunity here.

"facts lie louder then words..." :(

misterc 2011-07-15 21:32
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
then again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by By Adrian Kingsley-Hughes | July 14, 2011, 10:33am PDT
Microsoft outlines vision of the future ... and it disturbs me
… yes, ideally suited to small screen devices like smartphones. But smartphones aren’t tablets and netbooks/notebooks and games consoles and such. Why is Microsoft once again going for this ‘one size fits all’ approach to UI design. Why push a design paradigm designed for the small screen onto systems that aren’t limited by screen size? It makes no sense. But we’ve got to remember that Microsoft is the company that for years has been desperately trying to shoehorn the the desktop UI paradigm onto devices that have small screens.

http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/14-07-2011-17-48-51.png

I’m surprised that there isn’t a Dell desktop in the background featuring a 30-inch UltraSharp display also featuring the Metro UI. What better way to feature a UI designed for the small screen than to shove it onto a 30-inch screen.
looks like even on "conform" medias, not every body shares the vision of Balmer & Co

ericsson 2011-07-15 23:37
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1051816)
This looks cool. A good strategy.

Rugoz 2011-07-16 01:38
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
This looks cool. A good strategy.
Good for big business, bad for consumers. Instead of establishing open standards its all about making people prisoners of ecosystems. I'm so sick of this whole ecosystem ********, i could puke right now.

volt 2011-07-16 02:24
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
I second that. "Ecosystems" are really tightened consumer control.

jo21 2011-07-16 03:21
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1051862)
This looks cool. A good strategy.
well windows ARM apps wont even run in windows x86

so microsoft just spreading ********.

if they talk about their shitty music/video service. they should know people dont buy phone to pay for contend.. rather pirate it.

ericsson 2011-07-17 08:07
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugoz (Post 1051897)
Good for big business, bad for consumers. Instead of establishing open standards its all about making people prisoners of ecosystems. I'm so sick of this whole ecosystem ********, i could puke right now.
That's where you are wrong. Ecosystem is a win-win situation for consumers and big business, but also for small business by selling apps and services within the ecosystem. What is bad for consumers is lack of competition. The competition need not be hard or fierce, it's enough with a potential alternative to keep the prices reasonable. The world of PCs circles around MS Windows, but Linux is an alternative and so is Apple. Even though both have tiny market shares compared with Windows, they pull hard.

Windows, or rather DOS, won the PC race because of killer applications like Lotus and Word Perfect in business (and home), games, and because the IPM PC was cloned making a market for subcomponents and new PC brands.

The situation today regarding mobile computing and communication is completely different. There are no killer applications tied to specific brands. There are no platforms that are better in gaming than others. There are no specific business application that also have synergies in the home, except basic phone functionality that you can get with the cheapest dumb phone. This is why RIM is heading to the sewers, artificially made nonsense mailing platform that has no future what so ever.

Android though, seem to have won the battle of the smartphone OS'es, mainly because old dumb phones users head directly to Android. With the Asus Eee Transformer (and honeycomb), Android also is showing that it can be usable also for business in MS Windows/PC land. It is actually easy to envision a (distant) future where Android rules everything, also the business-PC market. But MS will rule the business PC market for a long time yet, and all MS/Nokia has to do is simply to make tablets and smartphones with seamless integration with business and games, and they will carve out a large market share. That integration need only be a similar(ish) look and feel and access to the same online services.

I think with time it will become increasingly obvious how hopeless the MeeGo alternative was, and also how dead-end the Symbian alternative really is, and how important ecosystems are.

Edit: I don't think I made it clear enough? The point is, the ecosystem IS the killer application just like Word Perfect, Lotus, Wolfenstein, Doom, MS FS and so on for the PC. We may not like it, but it doesn't change anything. The Eee Transformer is a killer application all by itself, finally a tablet that is useful in the home and for business, but it would be nothing without the success of Android and the Google ecosystem. I would prefer a smaller version though, 7 inch screen, but it's good enough as it is.

lma 2011-07-17 10:19
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1052519)
Windows, or rather DOS, won the PC race because of killer applications like Lotus and Word Perfect in business (and home), games
Nah, those came later, after the race was won. Originally all the killer apps were written for CP/M.

Quote:
and because the IPM PC was cloned making a market for subcomponents and new PC brands.
That. Open hardware that you could buy and boot any OS you want on (having the potential to run CP/M was a major point, even if most people didn't do that at the end). The 8088 being cheap didn't hurt much either. The IBM PC-compatible won first, and (MS-, not PC-!) DOS followed simply by being the OS that came free with the PC.

Rugoz 2011-07-17 10:55
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
But MS will rule the business PC market for a long time yet, and all MS/Nokia has to do is simply to make tablets and smartphones with seamless integration with business and games, and they will carve out a large market share. That integration need only be a similar(ish) look and feel and access to the same online services.
You obviously did not get my point. Seamless integration of different devices and different services from different companies is possible if open standards are established. That is exactly what we should aim for. I don't want to buy everything from one brand/one manufacturer. I think this locking in in so called ecosystems its the biggest ripoff (or better will be) in the consumer electronics market ever. Its only goal is to establish monopolies and to eliminate smaller competitors. Fighting the google empire (hopefully google+ fails) with microsoft is like fighting fire with fire. Nokia and all other freedom-loving manufacturers and service-providers should put everything in establishing open standards, its what nokia always aimed for and what they're giving up now.

ysss 2011-07-17 11:39
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Open standard is all fine n dandy on commoditized hardware where the components are already plentiful in the market; but when it comes time for a brand new platform trying to muster marketing muscle to puncture a brand new market (a la MeeGo), then it's a case of "hey it's my marketing dollar, i should be getting the sales off them".

It's similar reasons to why maemo's (trademark n all) is tied up to Nokia, so their marketing dollars don't fuel the growth of chinese maemo knockoffs.

patlak 2011-07-17 11:40
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1052519)
I think with time it will become increasingly obvious how hopeless the MeeGo alternative was, and also how dead-end the Symbian alternative really is, and how important ecosystems are.
You really have no idea what MeeGo is? And what Nokia's planned ecosystem was? How much is MS paying you? You don't seem to understand anything anti-MS. MS is the holy grail for you.

ericsson 2011-07-17 17:33
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1052586)
Nah, those came later, after the race was won. Originally all the killer apps were written for CP/M.



That. Open hardware that you could buy and boot any OS you want on (having the potential to run CP/M was a major point, even if most people didn't do that at the end). The 8088 being cheap didn't hurt much either. The IBM PC-compatible won first, and (MS-, not PC-!) DOS followed simply by being the OS that came free with the PC.
The race was between Commodore, Apple and a few others, Oric etc. The IBM PC was extremely expensive in comparison, a factor 10 typically. But because of Word Perfect and Lotus, MSFS and so on, the only thing to have was a IBM or a clone. CP/M had nothing to do with this, at that time the world were all Commodore and Amstradt, Oric and so on while IBM was exclusively business. Commodore faught well, but had to give in eventually.


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