Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Yes donated, you might want to look up the translation of 'donate'.

Also, what kind of answer do you expect, when @estel is banned right now???

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Estel promised pictures few months (almost half year) ago to document the progress and failed to deliver, promised putting files on some-git-or-whatever 3 months ago and haven't done that either while being pretty active in other topics on this forum and following this thread at least once since his last post ("Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread" :wink: :wink: ), so in all fairness I fail to see how being banned changes anything in this matter. I was pretty enthusiastic about that project >1 year ago (even though I know the metal case can make the signal reception much worse, I don't mind as I use my N900 mostly in the city with very good signal coverage), but one unfinished and very raw piece of metal is a bit too little to treat this seriously. I don't want to sound like a douche but one of my family members once worked with tools that Estel had access too (unfortunately family member doesn't have access to any of these anymore) and 3d scanner (I'm not sure if Estel has access to one... and I'm not even sure if that's correct name for this device, but this name should be descriptive:P) and was able to reproduce things of similar coplexity in 1-2 weeks when working full time (even considering the difference in levels of their experiences, let's double that number - 160 working hours in two years is still not the best result).

Still, I will happily buy metal cover replacement if it gets finished before 2016-2018 (depending on Neo900 project's success I will probably switch to another device more or less at that time), even if it will be expensive.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Bump!
Just want to hear some updates on this project.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Worry not, I'm reading through all posts here, and due to some (fair!) critique, I'm preparing a big, complex, long, in-depth update, which will show exactly where we are (to the single bit of mill'ed alu and piece of g-code), what is left to do, and generally, WTF.

The thing is, that I'm currently pressed very hard by real-life matters, including (but not limited to) serious health problems in the family, which leaves not much time for TMO (especially long posts about serious things) apart from some random comments.

Nevertheless, I'm at ~80% of documenting everything related to project, so please, just a few more days of patience, OK? I absolutely realize, that lately I was sucking hard re progress updates/overall availability/transparency, and I'm going to fix that in next entry here.

Sorry for being vague,
/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

".......last one here turn the lights out"?

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

I say even the bulb is gone already. Estel, admit it, all donated money is gone for buzz and polish busty girls (like the ones all could see at EV making butter). CNC stuff exchanged for weed, and You melted alloy for smoking pipe. Estel is widly known as a party animal, after few shots he's gooing balistic.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

I'm afraid.. he's a goner. -Ratso, The Brave Little Toaster To the Rescue

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

I dont think so...

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Hello folks! My name is Arien, and I am new team member of backupcover/body replacement (making us, essentially, a duo ;) ), and a current spokesman of the project.

Estel, who does the hardware work, have something to say to you all. Here it is:

[Quote_starts_here]

Hola Comrades!
Long overdue, the detailed progress update and photos is arriving, at las. It's going to be a long post, so I'll split it into few parts, if you don't mind:

1. The big day has come!

Backcover replacement got it's own gitorious.org project page and repository:
https://gitorious.org/fremantle-backcover-replacement

It contains:
a) CAD helper drawings that I've used to create current (release-candidate_PREANOD) version of backcover. I've spent unbelievably long time updating it to reflect only on the current state of project, getting rid of all drawings related to failed ideas, former revisions etc... And to make it readable for someone other than me. I hope that I succeed, especially at the latter - feel free to ask, if you don't get something.

It's grouped in the CAD directory.

b) CAM g-code files, which are exact instructions for milling machine what to do at every step. Those are bloodlife of the project, the very fab files that are compatible with all (at least) 3-axis CNC machines powered via LinuxCNC. One just need to insert the mill of given*, position mill via the touch-to-material method*, set offset to 0 , and ruuun. Backcover replacement created on your machine.

I've did my best to make it readable (for anyone familiar with g-code, at least) and hunted sneaky polish words in procedure's names, mercilessly. Still, beware of bugs/overlooks, I appreciate any fixes via pull requests.

*mill size is specified in comment section at the beginning of file. Offset is 0 after touch-down, unless specified otherwise in the same comment section WARNING, g-code use () to mark comments, and both opening and ending comment line is required, the # character known to all scripters, is actual part of program, don't search for it while looking for comments.)

The g-codes theoretically should be usable for 3D printer owners, after converting them to printer's sub-variant of g-code language. I haven't tested this and I have no idea (yet) how to do it, but it *should* be possible from what I know. Also, keep in mind, that depending on your printer type, various thing may (and probably, will be) too thin to print properly/collapse under their own weight before getting printed, unless you're proud owner of one of those top-notch scientific prototyping machines that use laser to solidify fine-powder particles, using solidified rest as makeshift weight support (or whatsnot).

If anyone verifies successful converting and print (and will be willing to send me a note/method/converted files), I'll gladly create a 3D printer branch or accept pull request for one, focusing on 3D printers.

Anyway, everyone interested is encouraged to clone git and if you feel competent, make things better or experiment with your own variant of backcover replacement. Finally, misiak can ashame me and finish whole body/backcover project before me (in two weeks) - whatever you would like to use those files for, "sky is the limit", it's as Open Hardware as it gets.

Last but not least, if anyone is wondering, everything was created using *only* FOSS software, from drawings, trough project files, to actual code send to machine. Machine itself is controlled via Debian PC with custom-compiled LinuxCNC installed, and, many times, via commands send remotely, from nothing else than N900 itself (SSH/x11vnc).
---

2. Aaaand, a fresh photo-set of the latest (from last week) revision of backcover, after 5th ones that failed to anodize properly for various reasons. Ignore the scratches, they're completely exaggerated on the photo, and anyway, won't be present after anodizing (at all).

Backcover on vanilla N900's body, cover closed:

http://s2.postimg.org/tm24lrp7d/exte...ver_closed.jpg


Same, but with cover open:

http://s2.postimg.org/5tsta8n6h/exte...ver_opened.jpg


Cover itself, horizontal:

http://s2.postimg.org/4wme1dbo9/exte...er_opened2.jpg


...and two views (opened, closed) from different angles:

http://s2.postimg.org/nikk1uyxl/external_ondevice.jpg

http://s2.postimg.org/jejl9d2zd/exte...ice_closed.jpg


The Mighty Leg:

http://s2.postimg.org/5r8xnejix/leg.jpg


...and, last but not least, inside of the cover + all parts (minus the hinges, which are on the opposite side)

http://s2.postimg.org/erdj7lfmh/internal.jpg
---

Now, for the few worried ones - of course the distinctive and interesting "milling" pattern present in previous photoset is still available as a (free) custom visual variant, with or without anodizing. The one here is a candidate for the default "matte black" anodized version. I expect huge array of colours to be available (including white, pichlo!), but it's still too early to give a definite list.

The huge empty space between parts of the leg is officially confirmed as The Place, where per-ordering people will get their custom engraving/picture/logo/motto/whatever they want. BTW, even so close to finishing stage 1 (backcover), pre-orders are still open with all bells and whistles, so it's not too late to get yours ;)

Now, The Leg. Initially, I wanted to make it as long as whole backcover, but due to positioning of camera window, it had to be too thin for such variant. It was stable, but just too prone to deformation, even using the best, "airplane" aluminum. Thus, the current version is shorted by that 1 centimeter+, but believe me, it's AWESOMELY stable. Nothing like a default, laughable leg. You can put it on your desk, slide screen, type like madman, and device won't twitch once (until you accidentally activate vibra, that is ;) ). The angle has been corrected, so it's, finally, optimal for looking at the screen from usual height of device placed on table/desk, without doing strange exercises with your neck. The Leg is, also, very durable, doesn't deform at all, and can withstand hell lotta more punishment than default one, without even showing a sign of wear.

Last but not least, some may wonder - this is 'flat' variant, not the fat mugen-like one that I expected to arrive first. Well,due to number of real-alu revisions required and limited funds, I preferred to do the thinner variant first for alu saving, and proceed to fat one only after squashing all and each one of the remaining bugs, anodizing-related or others. Additionally, transforming the flat variant to the fat one is a super-easy work (the only part that will require actual real-prototype testing is mount-point for camera tripods, present in fat one, but absent from flat), and I'll create that branch on gitorious as soon as flat one become first actual Release.
---

Now, the post-word - I realize and willingly admit, that I *totally* sucked at the progress updates, during last few months. It was effect of many RL matters, both "environmental" and personal ones, that I hope to have resolved by now.

Anyway, I feel deeply sorry for that and I want to fix it. No matter what happens, from the point NOW I promise and declare a hard-coded every-two-weeks updates, even if it would be only "nothing new, still waiting for x" or "hadn't had time to work on it at all for the past two weeks". Also, having project files on gitorious changes a lot in that matter, and will surely help. Again, huge thanks to Mentalist Traceur for keeping me inspired to finally get through a chore of making code release'able.

Finally, thank you to all supporters, that keep believing in the project even despite disappointing silence or lack of progress updates, sometimes to the point of actually taking my place as to inform on whats going on, or defend the project from naysayers. It means A LOT to me, really.

I hope that this (biggest so far, and marking new era of "informing") progress update made some of you at least a little happier, especially after The Other Big Project flopped.

/Estel

Ps.
Now, this Ps. wasn't meant to be here, but s*** happens... As you might have already noticed ;) I'm banned (again), for the duration of whole upcoming month. For your information, I was banned by mr. joerg The Moderator, specifically for following post:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=111

Considering this, the declared 2-weeks updates will get one-time delayed, 'till I'm able to freely write here, again. Also, considering that TMO become unreliable place for a communication hub about such project (thanks to nothing else but egoistic manchild getting moderator privileges and completely absent and clueless super-moderator, which does only what his colleague tells him - not incidentally, the latter being same guy who abuses moderator powers to censor free speech regarding his pet project), I'm working for a solution for a reliable communication center for this project (and every other Maemo-related one, that is concerned by same problems).

I'm sorry that this AWESOMELY bright and positive post had to end in a little grimmer note, but as I ended up - s*** happens. And sometimes, it takes form of irresponsible, narcissistic people.

No matter what, it doesn't affect backcover/body replacement project AT ALL - apart from TMO communication, that I hope to be free from soon enough - so keep positive, and stay tuned!

[quote_ends_here]

If you have any questions, ask, and I will forward it to Estel.
***

Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

>fremantle-backcover-replacement
Why fremantle? It's OS's name, node device's (the latter is Rover, AFAIK).

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Good question, that I actually can answer without asking:
Initially, it was meant to be something like "backcover/body replacement for FreEmantle powered devices". But, since Neo900 flopped, it is not sure if FreEmantle will ever emerge (I hope so, even for N900 alone! But hardware limitations in form of closed blobs might block it) and it wasn't making much sense to change it later.

Rover, OTOH, is known only to few (I, for one, had no idea) and there is currently only one device powered by fremantle. we wasn't sure if describing is as n900-backcover-replacement would be Ok, as N900 is Nokia's/Microsoft's trademark. So, we decided on fremantle, as widely recognized term.

Now, it might be bad idea from my side (I'm the one that helped with gitorious creation and rolling it"properly"), but I had no better one. I'm afraid that changing it later might be bad idea, as it breaks push/pull git links, so if no one come up with a ingenious better alternative right now, it's going to stay that way.

Also, I forget to mention two things something in my comment after quote from 1st post:

1. The leg isn't inside backcover in any photo, because its hinges are inserted into case and glued (temporally) for anodizing, already. They're too small to anodize separately - we're anodizing the whole backcover in three groups. Backcover with it's things inserted temporally is one, leg another, and camera's cover the last. Afterwards, hinges are removed, leg inserted, and hinges incorporated for good, this time.

2. Estel meant to post the update last Friday, actually, but he couldn't for obvious reasons (that I don't want to discuss as off-topic and unrelated to my work) I was unavailable for the weekend and my TMO account setup had some complications, thus the 3-days delay.

Sincerely, Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Well, before posting photos You should google for FARECLA G3, buy it and spend 1h at least for finnishing alloy. Now it looks like part taken from vintage tractor made in USSR, all covered in deep scraches from sand paper that is rather for wood working. Our mighty coder still have a lot to learn about man work, like real life tasks. I think, beeing honest, that is two years wasted for something ... ugly and not practical at all. THAT IS MY OPINION.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Thanks for your opinion, Garret - I hope that you have actually went through the post, as the thing about scratches was explain there, in detail. If you just looked at the photos, you might reconsider.

BTW, I love vintage tractors from USSR! And old radios, too. My N900 body replacement will be, in fact, just plain Alu with "rails" from mill still visible, anodized colorless, to keep Alu look. I like it more that way. We expect that most people will prefer black, though.

The beauty of this project is that everyone will be able to get highly customized look out of it, and to some extent, features too (esp. in body repl. phase). Not to mention that g-code files that we released have nothing to do with sand paper (and no, it wasn't polished by sand paper for woodwork...), so I guess that you're free to make it *much* better. And contribute back your changes on git! The license is GPL3, by the way.

Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Well, you (Estel) have been banned, but backcover_press_service can still post updates on your behalf, right? :)

Go easy on him, the poor guy had to dictate it to his secretary ;)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Right! This is our plan. But we didn't wanted to promise it, as Estel wasn't sure if my account won't be terminated, including all posts made. In fact, we're still not sure if the progress update post won't vanish tomorrow. In such case, we won't wrestle with the system.

So, treat it as "we will post 2 weeks update since today if we will be able to", otherwise, the warning from announcement apply and you will need to wait for Estel's return if/when it happens.

BTW, right now I'm setting up a FOSS engine powered (unlike the one here, which is proprietary vBulletin) forum, that we plan to use for all projects since its production ready, abandoning TMO altogether as unreliable service. Of course, we will leave notes where to find us in every Estel's project thread, and a warning that hill posts will vanish from TMO after two months, allowing people to backup whatever posts they fill useful. After that, Estel plan to nuke his TMO account.

If I recall correctly, Estel said something about allowing other people to post their projects there, in case they're tired of TMO wrestling, too, and would be willing to switch (or work in parallel) on the forum with more FOSS'y administration patterns. But don't quote me on it, it wasn't set in stone yet. We must evaluate possible bandwidth etc, in case people actually pick up on the offer more than we expect ;)

Hey, I'm not *that* kind of secretary :cool:
***

Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

"True" open-source spirit ;) Why delete posts from here? And why not set up something more project-management-related, like Redmine, instead of shitty forum system (btw, Redmine has forums module too)? Do you also plan to remove Estel's software from maemo repositories and create your own one (I'm using Ereswap on one of my devices, so in case it gets some updates, I would love to get them, too)?

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Estel's argumentations is TMO is not reliable place for informing and communicating about his projects. He also stated, that post database is in hands (managed) by people that were not elected by the community, not appointed by Hildon Foundation Council (or something like that, excuse me writing from memory), processed by closed source hardware forum engine (vBulletin). Finally, he mentioned huge problems with handling posts database in times of Nokia dropping support when he was Councilor, and state, that those problems about "who owns psots database" have never been resolved, nor free license for content posted was applied.

The promise from the 1st post in this thread is that all parts of Alu body replacement are going to be created using FOSS software. For me (my private opinion), it also means communication services. For rest of his posts, you need to ask Estel, but I think that respecting his right to decide where his posts are appearing and managed by who, is not too much. I don't see how transferring content from non-FOSS unknown-managed board to FOSS one is not FOSS-spirited.

For your information, all posts on new forum will be posted under Creative Commons license (FSF approved). Any person registering will have to agree that content posted by said person is CC licensed, so contributions will remain in public domain indefinitely (and everyone will have right to replicate/use them in any way that doesn't break CC rules).

As for any_other_engine propositions - again, it's a thing to discuss with Estel. We assumed, that hosting project files in Gitorious and having FOSS forum engine to communicate is enough for us, thus we don't want to waste time setting up something different/learning how to set it up and how to use/ just for the sake of it.

If you're willing to contribute your time setting up something that you tihnk would be more efficient for our project, we're thankful and definitely interested. I can organize a direct (mail) contact between you and Estel, to discuss your contributions plans.
***

As for Estels programs in repos, you have to ask him. I guess that it depends on the status of repos (who managed them, and if that person have right to do so appointed by community, or some kind of content hijacking occurred).

Any way, all things Estel release are GPL or LGPL licensed, so there is not problem in anyone replicating/reuploading/maintaining them in case Estel decide to pull it out. Again, I don't think there will be reasons for it, if status of Maemo's repos isn't dubious.

Sincerely,
Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

I don't see why you can't setup a web page for the project and have a IRC channel similar to the neo900 project.
IMO this would be an easy way to broadcast your own updates away from TMO if required.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

IRC require constant availability or proxy gateways to setup, which takes time/resources. Users who doesn't have those irc proxies are prone to miss progress updates. We prefer to use forum for the same reasons that it was posted on TMO, initially, but we don't agree to TMO's unresolved license (of content posted) issue, the way it is managed, people that are managing it, the way they were appointed, etc.

In any case, if there will be demand for IRC channel as addition to messaging board, we wills setup one on freenode, or ask our contributors to volunteer.

But, please, it is not thread about TMO replacement project ;) Maybe it was my mistake to write about it so early (I wanted to keep you all maximally informed), as the forum isn't even setup yet. If Estel decide to try forking TMO for all TMO's intents and purposes, he will surely create announcement thread (or ask me to do so, if he will still be unable to do so).
****

Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Don't want to sound like a douche, but such argumentation pisses me off. The database was always in private hands (first it was owned by Reggie - one of TMO members) and then it was handled to HiFo or something like that. And while more FOSS-friendly and wanted there were legal problems with changing the place they're stored (country) and there was no manpower to migrate the database (forum engine). About content posted, see footer:

http://i.imgur.com/Xb9upSA.png

Don't forget to make sure your internet card uses foss firmware and none of servers/routers/etc on the way use proprietary software.

Ignoring ******** about unknown-managed (there is no such thing as unknown-managed) etc: Transfering - ok, but keep it consistent. You will make both databases incosistent and look like crap in places related to your projects - and you will reach much smaller audience when you remove your stuff from here (there are not many Maemo users either way). In the end, it will not benefit your projects, and maybe even the opposite (prove me wrong).

See my screenshot above, read this forum's rules and see footer - what you wrote is nothing different than this forum, no improvement, just silly childish "i'll take my toys and go play in another playground".

I run my own FOSS projects (and commercial closed-source ones) and use Redmine for them, I just think you should give it a try. I haven't know Ruby at the time I was setting it up at first and it took me <1h to be up and running. But it's your decision, I only wanted to suggest considering something which is FOSS too, but can help manage projects (especially if there are many of them).

Ok, I hope someone will reupload it if he wants them removed. I don't see how status of Maemo's repos could be dubious - there are different repos, all with clear rules and licenses, like Debian ones.

I will contact Estel directly if I have any other questions, thanks for your answer, I didn't want to offend you, I'm just generally angry that Estel and joerg_rw both cannot settle some kind of agreement between themselves.

Edit: I will not be surprised if this situation ends up in way similar to that thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1017410 It looks like TMO had similar "issues" in the past, too ;p (it's strange, I was active back then, I should remember that...)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

<OT>
Perhaps this reliability would improve if Estel didn't try so hard to p1$$ off the moderator(s) so much. He has a knack for perhaps asking the right questions but in the most provocative way. Perhaps a Diplomacy 101 might solve at least some of his problems.
</OT>

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

@misiak
Thank you for making me notice CC footer (I just registered here, honestly haven't noticed it). I have browsed through it briefly, and if I'm right that it apply to all Estel's post content (even one posted before migration), I think it makes nuking account and content from here unnecessary.

Our doubts about reliability of TMO's management stand still, though. See progress update annoucement and Estel's post, it contains link for the post that he was banned (for a month) for. Also, there is at least one example of his (CC licensed, as it seems) post that was edited by moderator (administrator, chemist) in a way that changes content, without any note/edit author/whatever. For bystanders, there was no sign that the new content wasn't written by Estel.

In my opinion, the above breaks CC rules. We don't want or have time to wrestle with administrations here, so indeed, we do it FOSS way - take our toys and fork. It would look differently if the Maemo's Community would stand against bad practices that are happening here, but people seems to be indifferent. In such case, we're not the ones to fight windmills.

Now, back on topic, please? Pretty please?
****

Arien Stokowiec

Update
I don't know for you, but I would not like to post my project on board, where I'm either terrorized by unreliablemoderators, or forced to keep my nose in my projects only, without ability to comment on other things. While Estel's writing may be provocative, we both thing that we wasn't breaking TMO rules while posting the very post that he was banned for. We also think that the moderator banning him *was* breaking the rules, and in fact, shouldn't even be granted ability to ban anyone, in the first place.

As you might have noticed, I'm much more diplomacy-inclined than Estel is (or probably, ever will be). But, people are different, and as long as they're not breaking the law/rules, they shouldn't be penalized, no matter if we like them, or not. This stands triple as much for anyone wielding moderator powers. As far as I know, Estels provocative words haven't resulted in anyone being unable to post progress update on his projects for a month.

But, if Community is willing to discuss those things, please, create separate topic for it. This thread isn't about TMO fork.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Do as you wish, just remember that abill_uk whose case I linked in previous post vanished without a trace after abandoning tmo.

Can you point that one example? In vBulletin, when a moderator edits other user's posts, it appends "Last edited by MODERATOR_NAME, TIME" at the end (you cannot remove that easily). I know posts by not only Estel, but also other uses that were edited (with reasons, sometimes even legal reasons), but they had that text appended by vBulletin engine.

Ok, ok. We are talking on topic - after all, I'm commenting stuff you wrote in progress update ;) Feel free to start new thread and move posts there, I will happily move mine there, too.

Me too, but I don't know any such bad place.

After all, moderators are "the police" of this forum, so you may think you do good, but it doesn't matter. I remember some suggestions to change the system somehow, but noone came up with solution better enought to attract other people in the discussion. Either way, I've been here for almost 5 years and this is the second time I see someone having problems with the rules (having tens of thousands of users), so it doesn't necesserily indicate that the problem is with the rules. But maybe it also means that you will be really better off keeping away, in some other place (again that wasn't meant to sound rude).

I will happily post in that thread it there is any, but I'm not the one that announced plans for it, so I'm not going to start the thread ;p

edit: I'm concerned about Estel going away. After all, he is very active member and did some useful stuff in the past (and was Council at some time if I remember correctly, but stepped back). If he thinks it will be better for him to start his own place then to accept rules of this place, it's his choice. But this place gained momentum for many years, had commercial support and was advertised by once-major mobile company, etc., etc. and it still isn't that popular after all (generally speaking).

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Good to get an update with pictures. Keep the thread on topic everyone.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Fortunately or not, I don't have moderator rights, so I can't move posts from here to somewhere else. Also, I'm not here to fix TMO and it's administrators/moderators behavior, I think it's up to the "real" TMO users. If they're not interested, either I'm not.

Anyway, if such thread ever appear, I'll post example that you requested there. For now, sending you a PM.

Just for the record - for me, abusing moderation against one user amongst thousand of indifferent ones is no better than abusing half of them, so your argument from part starting with moderator's as police doesn't hit the spot. Real police answer to someone, current TMO management answer to no one. Community abandoned it's governing position.

But, again, it's not our job (or motivation) to fix it, especially that others seems to not be interested/concerned. If you like it the way it is, take your time. We don't, so we move somewhere else. IF the forum starts to work and IF someone, at some point, feel like joining in, welcome. Otherwise, it will remain a board about backcover replacement (and, in future, body replacement, and other replacement/CNC projects of Estel)
***

Thank you, we will try to keep it coming :) +1 for keeping thread on the (main) topic.

Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Major part of the problem is that joerg is moderator in his own topics (Neo900, NeoFremantle). This shouldn't be the case IMHO.
I figured
option #1: give Estel his own backcover topic with mod rights
option #2: revoke mod rights from joerg
I prefer #2 for different reasons.

...just my 2 cents
<please move to new thread>

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

I for one sorta hope that the final product is a butt-ugly metal beast. Maybe that's going a bit too far, but it would be fun to have a phone that looks like style was the absolute last consideration in the design. The world is full to the brim with shiny fragile phones. The press gushes about rounded edges and thinness. I'd *love* to have a phone 3 cm thick that only needed to be charged once a week with heavy usage!

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Nice to see it moving. I just hope the fat variant will come a lot sooner now :)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

It will. The one and only last thing we need to overcome is problem with uniform color of anodizing (doesn't apply to colorless - natural alu - anodizing, which, BTW, is also even more resistant than colour one - not a big factor, just a little). After that, we're starting to send to pre-orderers and offer purchase to anyone, in that order. Just keep in mind that it's about 3 days work on machine itself (it need to mill it veeeeery slowly), and then 4-5 days of human work, so it might be a week or two per single unit (depending on how long ano shop does it job). Of course we will circumvent it by doing covers in series (the same procedure applied to, lets say, 10 covers, then another procedure, etc), but one still need to count a week per complete cover.

Far variant, indeed, comes immediately after flat one get ready to be shipped. Or even in parallel - really, making it flat first was just a matter of saving alu on units that failed to anodize properly, until we get the formula/matt surface right.

Also, I'm very glad that there are more people that like mean-looking devices :D The beauty here is that people liking shiny black devices, will be able to get them. People looking matt devices, too. Rusty devices should be possible. Surface on various levels of finish (have I mentioned that my private one won't be polished at all, still containing all the beautiful tracks from CNC mill?), etc. Everyone (almost) should be able to pick own favorite variant. Even the pink ones :D
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Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Why on Earth do you keep to reposting the same comment ever again?

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

To keep the thread in the active topic lists, i guess.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Yes - the progress update was long overdue, so we're trying to ensure that everyone interested have chance to know about activity here, before thread gets flushed out from active topic list. I found it as more elegant way than old-fashioned "bump". It's rather standard (albeit I agree, that sad) procedure on bigger messaging boards, and this way, at least, it doesn't add trash bump posts to database.

But, I see that it is irritating for some here, so I'll refrain from doing that. Sorry for the inconvenience :)
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Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

You do know right that if someone is interested in a topic he can choose to get email notifications by subscribing to the thread? Also if you need to edit your posts, use the edit button and post a reason for edit if you want to instead of deleting it and reposting the same thing with less typos as it is frustrating reading the same thing via email notifications repeatedly.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

We're also hoping to surf on storm's head for a long while, upon releasing the first units into the wild. Ten in Beaufort scale! ;)

To head this thread into a little more on-topic path:
Today, I myself had a pleasure of doing extensive testing about taking photos, and possible impact of metallic surface/lens reflection (infamous thing about silvery border and blue hue on vanilla N900's cover - we wanted to ensure, that all-metallic backcover won't re-introduce the problem).

After taking numerous photos in various light conditions (including sun rays on front or back), I can confirm that there is absolutely no problem, while using matt surface finish. Zero additional hue, while using backcover (compared to no backcover at all). I need to test it again with shiny black surface, when it becomes available.
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Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

"Stepped back"? That's not quite what I recall. But then I was the only Council member that cycle who didn't get a free N9 to track it on, so what do I know? :D

Now I'm trying to remember what my bet was on this project. On when/if it would get finished... I'm sure I put a time clause in there. I seem to recall phrasing like "long after even the biggest hold-outs have moved on". At this rate, the prototype in the picture may be enough to meet the market demand by time it's ready. :rolleyes:

Sigh... As much fun as it can be, I really have to delete this browser link.

Hey! Look! I bumped your thread! Nice, right?

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Fortunately, all project files are available on gitorious. We're Open Hardware in full sense of the word - anyone can take it and upgrade in whatever direction one feels fancy, as long as you respect terms of GPL3 license.

All people are free to finish the project before us, even, and start offering complete backcover/body to interested individuals - it stands triple for the ones that are making harsh comments about our work. You think you could do it better in two weeks, or you're sure that you would finish it earlier, shinier, or better in any aspect? That's great, you're absolutely free to do so! We would praise you for your contributions.

If someone with even better equipment/experience than us (or just more more free time) start contributing/fork, we couldn't be happier, in fact. We provided every project's file we have already, and we will provide everything that we create in future. If someone start working on it for serious (understand it as: wasn't writing here just to troll us), we will gladly offer our personal time to share experiences on machine parts used, common problems during prototyping, etc.

Summing it up - if you can do it better/faster/smarter, then by all means, do so! We provided and will be providing whatever help we can. Show us what you're made from in field of actual work, make us notice what expertise and experience hides behind your bold words :)
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Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Ah, none of us were collecting funds for the past 2 years and making promises that have yet to be keep.

I have. The fact that this forum still exists two years after Nokia turned their servers off is my legacy. What's yours?

To be clear: I was not alone in that effort, and don't claim my role couldn't have been done by just about anyone else. But that's the benefit of being on a team. (By that I mean "with more than one person", not "with more than one account"...)

By all means, I would love to see a finished product, and maybe even see some of those who funded it get something for it. I'd love to be proven wrong... I really would. I just don't see it happening.

There was a time I would have probably even bough one, where they available. I doubt they would work with the inductive charger I'm using now though. Aluminum + induction is great for cooking, no so good for electronics.

Good luck, and please do post when you've made more progress, and/or started shipping to your pre-purchasers. HEY! Maybe we can get Dave999 to start a countdown for that?!

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

You're welcome to start doing so :) As for promises, so far, every and each one have been fulfilled, while others are in the process of being completed. No person without much bad will have any existing reasons to doubt completion of the project. I don't even want to go into things like fact that completion date was *never* promised (it will be done when it will be done), and every single per-orderer/donor - of which you're neither - acknowledged that.

Quite a few humanitarian projects to aid Ukrainian people during recent conflict, thanks for asking. But, what does it have to do backcover/body replacement, my success. or your perceived one? (if - rather poor - status of affairs relating TMO, can be even called that). I'm leaving aside fact, that "success" tends to have have many fathers ;) I guess there would be quite a bunch of other people that like to call Maemo's survival "their legacy", and some - like your "best friend" joerg - would have vastly different opinion on your "positive" role during those days.

Anyway, the point is, that your "legacy argument" is hardly related to backcover/body replacement project, and you were criticizing exactly that. Show us your expertise/achievements in that regard, or grab files from gitorious and create some, either by contributing or forking. This project uses FOSS-only software and have all the files published and available, so you have everything you need to actually do something constructive.

Unless you came here only to troll us a little, judging by tone of your posts? In such case, bad luck, you were just left with "pants down and nothing to show", as we, barbarian women of the far northeast ;) use to say, pardon my in promptu translation.

I'm glad that there is at least an on-topic question, coming out of it. Yes, inductive charging for sure wouldn't work through alu backcover. But, there should be a possibility to user-mod it, placing flat part with coil on the outside, and creating small holes for cables to carry current inside, to pads or plates. Forwarding the question to Estel, for evaluation of possibilities

As you probably know (I'm absolutely sure that you carefully went through our latest progress update, before starting to criticize us), we will be having every 2-weeks "hardcoded" progress updates. So, surely, you won't miss it. And the countdown is cool idea, actually :)
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Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

backcover_press_service, please stop arguing with woody, it's a trap so they can ban you too...

(no smiley)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Whats happening in this community???