Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Well it did not take long for the bickering to flare up again did it?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I think we should have a button and when 10 users click it. A troll avatar appears for that user 24 hours.

Now. You should all have a troll avatar by now.. :D

Thread closed!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

In my past experience, Nokia's maps were horrid--but they were admittedly better than Apple's attempt. Even Google Map's first attempts were nowhere near as bad as Apple's foray. Still, the point remains that Apple is still selling better than Nokia. But! Is it the phone, the platform for the phone or is it the maps other other bundled apps?

Also.. where is my troll avatar? I don't see it yet. ;)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0...shot-630w.jpeg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The fun is spoilt here without the thanks button! The jokes here are too good at times :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

When you have customers like those...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4
it doesn't really matter if you do things right.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Then what in f*ucks name are you doing in an off topic thread about Nokia stock ? And who cares about your sorry attempts at making (fart)apps anyway. On WP we have real apps :) So get out of this thread, and do your trolling somewhere else.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Like no official Gtalk, Google Voice, Google Maps or Google+ apps. Or an upgrade path from 7.x to 8.x. Or even a Skype that runs in the background. No App.net app. No Instagram app. No VLC. No Adobe apps besides Acrobat Reader.

But there is a fart app on WP7...

Real apps. I have a Lumia 900 and wouldn't say something that daft.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You should have a more open mind. To be fair, here's some points about the iPhone 5:
http://youtu.be/qFUz6vHEQCM

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Somebody's been reading our threads.

Anyway, I see that there's been few thread-related updates while I was unavailable the last week, so here's a few E24 graphs.

All graphs are NOK1V:Helsinki:Euro.

New week, new failures. Here's today's first hour and a half drop:
http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...4e6a8796f3.png

One week drop:
http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...311a7ea0a7.png

One month drop:
http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...1eba4fd757.png

6 month drop:
http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...ee8ce244d2.png

1 year drop:
http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...cc6db657b3.png

3 year drop:
[IMG]http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/c
hart/cf/cfafa43d9ada4afc1dd54b9e493ffa3.png[/IMG]

5 year drop:
http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...4f4bc77e4f.png

Now I am off to read if Ahonen has anything funny to say lately.
Edit: Found nothing noteworthy there.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Exactly, only real cool apps, no G-junk. Spotify for Android, is it called G-spot?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

No.

And define "real cool" applications. Because as it stands, I doubt you'll have a substantial list.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I agree, it's unfortunate that NOKIA don't realise Samsung is their true competitor not Apple. If Apple users want a dumbed-down, locked-down device then that's fine but it's a real shame that has rippled out to NOKIA.

I'm getting more and more interested in Firefox OS. As all the devices functionality is exposed to Gecko you can completely customise the way you interact with the device.

For example all the phones now seem to be obsessed with 'gestures' and animations just for the sake of them. I'd rather have previous, options and next buttons at the bottom of the screen rather than flick up and down through a long list or swipe side to side through multiple screens, I invariably accidentally launch something as I'm navigating like that which really ticks me off.

Firefox OS will give me the opportunity to make my device look and work just the way I want it to even if no one else on the planet likes it that way.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

All of that XUL freedom comes at a price... lack of UI normalization. It's a problem on Android. It will be a problem on Fire fox OS.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

For me the nub of the problem is I'm not keen on what has become the norm.

It seems to me the clear separation between the system and the UI, combined with the easy way the UI is implemented, will open up a whole new field of creativity that goes way beyond themes or widgets.

BTW I don't think Firefox OS is going to offer XUL, it's going to be plain JS/HTML/CSS.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Not sure I understand this statement.

Once a person starts to display:none some key elements in the name of customization, you run the risk of causing problems with how an OS renders for all people. Overrides will take the control away from the customizations. Wall people in and it's not customizable at all. I'm not happy with most widgets... so hearing that it will be better than that system, I can't wait. The existing paradigm of UI/UX for mobile phones is not ideal.

And I stand corrected! You're 100% correct. XUL was dropped, HTML5 + JS will be the way to change your Firefox Mobile OS experience.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

'XUL' stands for "extensible user interface language". 'HTML' stands for "hypertext markup language". Now, user interface of program, application, operating system - should be done in XUL, in my humble opinion. I had developed, a long time ago, extensions and themes for both desktop and mobile Firefox, and hope to do so in the future. But definitely not in HTML. HTML is for websites, not for browser. And I definitely am not going to use Firefox with "native user interface", even if it is faster. If I get time, I will find a way to replace some existing applications - calculator, for instance - with XUL applications.
Best wishes. It's unfortunate that off-topic threads do not have a 'Thanks!' button. Maybe, a kind of 'Off-Topic Thanks!' button might be designed?
Darr... I have heard they stopped building Firefox for Mobile on Maemo (latest officially built version was 7) - and then I have found Fennec (15) in a custom repository. And it's XUL-based, fortunately. If Firefox stops using XUL interface (fortunately, it seems to be merely a rumour), I will uninstall it. I just hope that Seamonkey will not follow.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Having looked at the 5 year stock trend it is pretty horrendous but who knows, maybe WP8 could be part of the solution, one things for sure though, even with the best efforts of Nokia, this is not the way to do it.

Lumiaman: "iPhone 5 is outselling Nokia ... idiot proof iOS. Only WP8 offers idiot proof phones for Nokia."

Specc: "Then what in f*ucks name are you doing in an off topic thread about Nokia stock ? And who cares about your sorry attempts at making (fart)apps anyway. On WP we have real apps So get out of this thread"

Calling Nokias customers idiots and calling their competitors customers idiots and insulting the very small time developers that Nokia need to start to regrow their value and lost reputation is probably not the way to do it.

All I can say is if these two characters work for Nokia then Nokia has a lot more serious problems than just the stock price and if they don't work for Nokia then I feel sorry for whatever companies they do work for, I certainly know what I'd do if they worked for me.

I am not even sure why they hang out in a Maemo forum if they like WPx so much?

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia maps for one, a map application that actually work, not just 'yet another arena for advirticing and general privacy intrusion '. Lots of high quality games, for those who like that stuff. Nokia music and music store where all the music is standard mp3, so you can put your music wherever you want. City scene.

I don't miss anything of the g-i junk. There are tons and tons of g-i junk, but as i see it: junk is junk.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Dem be trollin.

Dey be on hostile ground, sayin things dey no means, to disrupt da competion. Thought dat much wuz obvious.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Yes it was tongue in cheek, I've just been playing them!

:-)

They too easy. No sport.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Like I said before I'm not keen on flicking gestures for lists or swiping gestures for screen to screen navigation but these have now become the default. I'd prefer up and down buttons or previous and next buttons at the bottom of the screen.

I also really like the 'options' menu on Symbian which avoids a lot of back and forth between screens. On other operating systems touching a list item once is selecting it and your off to another screen, that happens to me a lot unintentionally when I'm actually trying to navigate the list not select the item. Not only do I dislike many of the gestures I don't think they work well, I find them an irritant not an enhancement.

Unfortunately Apple, Google and M$ have all decreed this is the way it's going to be. With Firefox OS, even if Mozilla follow the same paradigm, I should be able to replace their UI with my own right from top to bottom.

I think creating alternative UIs for Firefox OS will become an interesting new opportunity for web developers and designers (as well as carriers of course).


I can sympathise with what you're saying, I like XUL but I think it will be phased out. It's already gone from the Android version and on the desktop I think Mozilla are now planning to stop allowing overlays that alter Firefox menus, etc... I think it's only a matter of time before JS/HTML/CSS will be the only option for the UI of Firefox extensions.

On the upside there's a really good JavaScript framework from 1 & 1 called QooxDoo which enables you to make really nice UIs directly in JavaScript without needing to code HTML or CSS.

With Firefox OS it should also be possible to create apps just using QooxDoo which really works for me.

I've even started using QooxDoo in combination with node.js to make programs for my desktop, that combination works even better when you have a browser that lets extensions access the raw TCP socket (like the developer edition of Chromium).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

No value in NOKIA beyond IPR and cash

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Movement.

Nok1V, Helsinki, €, one week view. Day ended.

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...7b8f2d2d71.png

NOK, NYSE, $, one week view. Open just under 2 hours.
http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...1ce1c797a2.png

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Its responding to the market as a whole. Greece, spain, god knows who else.....No significant changes until pricing, availability and sales are announced

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Heading right for the bowels.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Ah. I see what you did right there...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

http://onlyhdwallpapers.com/thumbnai...per-404931.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iSfbnNq6sRG3i.gif

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Pricing for the new Lumias has been announced

The 920 is to be more expensive than an S3 :rolleyes:

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Oh dear. I'd suggest that's a mistake

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Oh dear. That's ridiculous pricing for a challenger.

Anyway, the v we saw at the end of the last graph, did mark a short term low point.

NOK/NYSE/USD/1W:

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...172c855c30.png

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The new Ashas might be enough to keep NOKIA on life support a little while longer.

The problem for NOKIA is IDC has now categorised the Asha touch devices as smartphones, they may well become NOKIA's best selling smartphones (or will their markets to be limited to try and prevent that?)

Elop may then have to conjure up another burning platform memo to keep his lord and masters at Microsoft happy.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Asha is Series 40, and Series 40 is without discussion Nokias biggest OS. It's not really a smartphone OS, though, is it...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

IMO, the main reason Nokia want to classify it as a smartphone is so that it boosts the units in the quarterly reports hence they wouldn't need to specify explicitly the success of Lumia series...

Its a way to market the devices as well as a safe fall-back for Elop who can cover up the fallings of Lumia if they don't really sell well...

After all, I think the Asha series gives around 10% margin just like what Elop expects from WP series phones whereas Symbian and N9 gave him 20-30% margins...So with same margin it would be more difficult to get the real Lumia sales figures...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I tend to agree, when compared to powerful multitasking operating systems like MeeGo or Symbian Series 40 doesn't seem like a smartphone OS. However, when you compare Series 40 to (artificially) restricted, single-tasking operating systems like WPx and iOS I think the distinction is not so clear.

Either way if IDC have categorised the Ashas as smartphones I guess they'll start to appear in their statistics as such.

The Ashas do look good value for what they are.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

But in the olden days, S60 would show up in the "Nokia smart phones" stats, and the S40 phones wouldn't. So changing this "mid race" is just boosting the smart phone numbers to look more competitive, and makes comparison of numbers before and after this shift more or less meaningless.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Another nail:

Nokia: Analyst Sees No Value Outside Cash And Patents

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavi...h-and-patents/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

In Q2 2012 NOKIA's gross margins were:

Smart Devices 1.7% (yes, one point seven!)
Mobile Phones 24.1%

Source (scroll down to about half way).

You are right in essence though, getting the Ashas bumped up to smartphone status would help Elop disguise the disastrous mess he's making of NOKIA's smartphone division.



But it's IDC's decision not NOKIA's. As I understand it there is no standard definition of what makes a phone a smartphone, IDC have their own in-house definition, Gartner have their own in-house definition, etc...

Presumably something added/altered in the latest range of Ashas has made them fit the IDC criteria.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

it will be difficult for Nokia or Jolla for that matter to break into the top tier. none of the products are revolutionary and most of them are iphone imitations, including N9. price breaks and small differentiations will help fractionally increase the consumer base. until something revolutionary comes, the top tier will be iOS and Android. i am not sure that Nokia has that revolutionary spirit left in its bowels. so ashas and taleban phones will remain its best bet.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Lumiaman,

What you don't see is Jolla are not targetting top tier yet; while Nokia were top-tier run down by an idiot...

How would you have revolutionary spirit left when you have people being fired left, right and centre just because of one man's idiotic decisions...

I'm still of the opinion Elop could have chosen an all-inclusive strategy of building on existing+WP instead of WP-only...After all, haven't Google succeeded with a "throw noodles on the wall and go with what sticks" strategy? Android is similar for them; it stuck so they push on...

Also, your latest comments give me the impression that you have given up on Nokia ever improving; so are you literally writing-off your investment in NOK?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I am sticking with Nokia as i think they will get to 10 a share in 2-3 years. what i am saying is that it will be very difficult for them to be top again. i do believe that synergism between Nokia and WP may make them the third ecosysytem, but i dont see much revolutionary stuff coming out