Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

No, it only does it in a very limited way. Besides, it is a real pain to export messages out of the device for example...

I had t get a few SMS message chains out of a friend's Lumia device because she needed them as evidence in a court case and it proved hard as hell to do it! There's no way to natively export anything, so what I had to do was to manually open and copy each message to an evernote page and then export that out... Took me a really long time as there were some 300 messages to be copied!!!

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

What didn't you undestand?
First iPhone never got MMS-Support although it was a basic feature for phones at that time.

And Android never got native Caldav support (I haven't seen Version 5 so far, maybe it changed) Caldav in Android is only possible via third party apps.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

I don't think so, Google is more like:
Thou shalt have no other Services before mine.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

You are right, but in the end it's the same effect.
And the intention is even worse.:mad:

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Just out of interest, how would you do the same thing on a Jolla? (A genuine question.)

Everybody does that. Including your beloved Jolla. Just look at the arbitrary restrictions on what can be in Harbour.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

In Jolla you have access to the filesystem:
# The database with the SMS messages
sql_database="/home/nemo/.local/share/commhistory/commhistory.db"

from: https://together.jolla.com/question/...conversations/

Don't think they are restricting any competition by disallowing unstable libraries from harbour, this is more about quality control. Then again, maybe there is some other mobile phone startup that relies heavily on QtPositioning and QtFeedback and Jolla just keeps them at bay

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Yes, I agree that is a great advantage.

If you can call that "natively export". If I were the judge, I would not accept an evidence thus obtained without asking additional questions.

What I call a native export is something like a PC suite for backing up your PIM, with an export functionality. I am not aware of any platform that got it right since Palm OS (but then, I have no clue about WM, iOS and BB). Nokia has tried but did not quite succeed. Jolla has not even tried.

I think you've misspelt "independent developers". Modrana and Poor Maps come to mind.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Natively export as in copy that file to your pc, run queries to export to any other file format you want/expect. You can probably even import it into M$ acce$$ (is writing like this still a thing?) straight away. Or just use the script from TJC, or modify it. Expecting Jolla to provide export to Symbian/BB/WP/iOS and every other possible device is a bit weird. If they had used some proprietary Jolla only format and encryption and hidden the filesystem, yeah some kind of windows only pc suite for export/backup surely would be better than nothing.

Oh okay, did not consider Maps application to be 'service' by Jolla, but in that regard, yeah. Kind of a bummer. Still believe the intention behind limiting the allowed libs is quality for end users using harbour and they do increase that number, albeit slowly

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

There's a native application for that, sms-boat which lets you import and export SMS'es in CSV format.
Used that when I transferred my SMS'es from N9 to Jolla about hundred years ago :D

However, as it is, if I needed to do the similar thing on Jolla as I did on that cursed WP Lumia execuse of a mobile thingy, I'd probably use a simall bash script just like szopin suggested
(easier for myself, but someone indeed might prefer an application for the task)

Yes, it is done by independent dev, but note that on WP you do not even have that!
It is bloody just not doable I guess, one of the API's that MS has not opened for developers... :mad:

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

That's not really the point. Apple, Google and Microsoft have solid, reliable services that run on whatever protocol each use. It doesn't really matter what that is. Apple uses CalDAV/CardDAV ironically. Jolla doesn't have any services and nobody is expecting them to have them. Jolla has to rely on 3rd party services. It's 18 months on from release and you still can't reliably do this. It's only the last few months that there has been a flurry of commits to buteo sync.

Some people may think this is not basic functionality but I entirely disagree. It's partly why I gave up waiting on Jolla and bought both a new android tablet and android phone. I use 3rd party CalDAV/CardDAV plugins on android to access Apple's iCloud services and sync with my Mac and it's 100% reliable, fast and dependable. That's what I need from my Jolla and after 15 months it wasn't there. Not even close to it.

Also IMHO every UI change Jolla have done has been a step backwards and 2.0 continues that trend. The multitasking got worse with the Qt change and the limited RAM in the device hit home. I get better multitasking out of Android because Sony just threw 2 & 3gb of RAM at the problem. :-)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Jolla's way is to release often to bring improvements more rapidly. It also allows rapid feedback on how the platform is evolving, instead of taking something like 8 to 10 months preparing big update that "makes it work before making it work better" and then findinf that changes were not welcome after all. There are always caveats on different update models, but honestly I prefer current, more rapid incremental updates compared to waiting for next PR with N900 or N9.

Also, what are basic mobile platform features vary depending on who you ask. If you ask me, there has not been any new fully featured mobile OS's since Symbian. All of them lack things that were present in Symbian years ago (including fully supporting both landscape and horizontal use throughout UI), but because it's Android/iOS such things are not considered basic anymore. As for Qt upgrade, doing upgrade first and doing new stuff against new version is most likely faster than doing everything against old version and then having even more painful route to upgrade. So, it's never going to be like "make everything work and upgrade only then".

I have been using Exchange since day one. Though, my backend is Zarafa + Z-push. However, I know people who use Jolla with company Exchange also, so I wouldn't say that the feature is missing.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Yes, but the first iPhone was not 3G capable, that could explain, no?

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

I think we all do. And I also think this is not really the point here but priorities.

Read again January blog post about the coming features, you'll read "Lockscreen media controls" or "private browsing". Those are nice features, for sure. But those are not mandatory features when the basic you can expect from a smartphone is not provided:
- no buggy contacts sync
- no buggy calendar sync (check on TJC how many people have missed appointments because of this crap)
- voicemail notification (this is a damned phone guys!).

All this discussion is about priorities, nothing more. And obviously, tablet is not one with such a buggy OS. But maybe we have to also try to understand their priorities in term of business, because for such a small company, this is probably a survival question. Just a question of perspective.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Private browsing is there, you just have to enable it manually in about:config for now.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Please note I did not include Exchange in the "missing" list ;)

(/pichlo out. Will come back in when the thread gets back on topic.)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Well not everyone has the same priority.

For example I do not care for the calendar that much, and I use the music player quite a bit.

I suppose Jolla priorities changed around a bit when they decided to do a tablet, where media and browser support are important.

Also, I doubt people working on the browser or the media stack would be very productive doing contact/calendar work; so progress on one front does not mean there is less effort on the other; only that progress is blocked by some hard to crack problem, or that that team is understaffed. But even if they add more developers, the effect will take a few months to be noticeable...

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

For a Smartphone is the lack of 3G a missing basic feature :D
MMS also work on Edge and even gprs...

But I think you didn't got what I tried to tell you. If even big companies struggle to implement some "basic" features in time, it's quite unfair to expect this from a small company like Jolla.

I've never said, that I'm not missing some things on my Jolla. But I can live with that, because there are on the other hand a lot of things which I love on my Jolla and which I dislike on other platforms.

The not really reliable cladav is something which is really annoying for me too (especially now in summertime, when every date is misplaced by an hour :o). But I have to accept, that a small team can't do everything right for everybody, and I have to trust them, that they are setting the priorities in the right order - not only for me and you, but also for business.

If you can't live with that and you'll buy an android. That's your decision. For me the disadvantages of android are weighing heavier than that of my Jolla.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

I do agree about the UI changes, mostly I worry about compromising changes rather than design changes. I think the criticism on the memory problem is a bit unfair, the change of Qt was unavoidable, I am glad they did try and make the phone more efficient, tablet and newer models will benefit from that. Yes they are stuck with 1GB RAM and a hw that will soon get 2 years old. Sony just hides the problem by introducing new models every 6 months making older devices obsolete.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Obviously yes, and I also use quite a lot the music player. But here there is not only the "priority" flag but also the "critical" flag.

I (and you I guess) can live with a buggy music player. It would be annoying but the bugs would affect me and certainly only me.

Now, think of contacts and calendar sync. If this doesn't work as expected, that means you can loose contacts. Not only the vCard in itself, but also the possibility to contact someone if you don't know the number by heart.

Same for the calendars, personaly I missed 3 appointments because of the daylight change bug, and I'm far from being alone.

I use this phone as my primary one, and I missed some customers messages because of the lack of voicemail notification.

Here this is not just annoying, this is totally unacceptable because this can be a issue in your social life, including your job. And I mean "by social", not the FB, etc, but you "real" life.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Excuse me if I sound very stupid, but is there any way we can have a TOH that can increase the RAM from 1 GB to 2 GB? Is it possible at all?

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

A buggy media player means your music might not play or it stops playing. Hardly a big deal.

A buggy contact or calendar sync means your phone doesn't get the contacts synced, you miss meetings or you get duplicated meetings or as I've had, the meeting you entered into your Mac gets synced to your Jolla and then your Jolla decides to delete it on both your Jolla and your Mac. It's just not acceptable to have critical issues like this.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

No. The interface is too slow.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Wait for Jolla2 phone, it should have at least 2GB I reckon.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Hmm can you increase Ram with SWAP?

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Stop comparing jolla to first iPhone and Android. When they were released they maybe did not have all features, but they did not have competitors(alternatives) as they were first smartphones as you know them now. With jolla it's different as there are mature alternatives and Jolla doesn't have something really "unlike" to offer. They run linux but not really opensource or have open development. Btw does the shop runs on non-jolla HW(nexus and etc), if not than you can compare it to Google services :) Though I do not like Google myself, there are more open-flashable devices and free of Google services and even opensource ROMs.
So if you compare, do it properly. One thing Jolla has advantage is currently best Qt support and real Linux, that's it.
All this "unlike" UI looks maybe not bad but has not best UX, and even if you tell me that it's matter of taste, why would jolla constantly want to change it(changes with sail2.0) and I mean not expanding but redesigning.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

And that's enough for me to place them at the top of my list. :)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

You can use tizen, Ubuntu phone, n900 and others who are more hackable and open.
You can run as well chrooted linux if not real dualboot on android. Linux is Linux, which is OS, but phone is a tool and not a game to compile kernel. I do use myself gentoo and like freedom and the ability to compile own kernel and have own settings and env, but it doesn't mean I would prefer computer I can compile but can't use it as computer.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Never understood what was so special on the first Iphone Palm Treos were earlier and had also a Touchscreen. The only thing what was different was the lack of a physical keyboard. And this horrible Layout won, unfortunately!:mad:

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Yeah, I've been using n900, and looking at Tizen & Ubuntu. But I'm kinda sick of the whole "Cellphone as Media Player plus Game Console" that the world has been turning into...

But why bother with the hassle (and the warantee-voiding implications) when you can get a fully supported standard Linux distribution instead? :)

Exactly. Which is why I'm finally getting off of the stupid "smartphone" merry-go-round myself. The smartest phone today is one that handles telephony alone; everything else is just a crass attempt to dig more dollars out of your wallet for no significant value in return.

The Jolla tablet is arriving just in time for me to shift all my mobile computing materials onto a handy non-phone portable device. :)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Well, there was that. There was also a leader with a specific vision for how to design a user-friendly product, leading a huge team of highly qualified software engineers, and having the willingness to spend years of time and boatloads of cash to get it right.

Steve Jobs' design philosophy may not have been one that appealed to all customers (it certainly doesn't to me), but he had the will and the means to create the device that matched his ideal. The iPhone is, to a great extent, the ideal form of one man's vision of what a phone should be. And you've gotta give it props for that.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Wrong. The concept of a smartphone had been introduced long before, and the whole point of this comparison is to point out how for example the iPhone didn't even meet the standards set by moderate feature phones of those years.

It just shows how reality distortion works: When the iPhone lacked MMS, copy/paste, 3rd party software support, SIP, 3G, video calls and whatever features were standard then, people ignored all its faults it because it came from their Guru. But when the still young Jolla Phone lacks a UI for VoIP calls, it's totally unacceptable because clearly all features need to be on all phones.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

@benny1967, excuse my ignorance does android or ios have embedded support for voip?

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Who derailed this thread while I was away?

Lets skip this upgrade and release sail 2.0 in May.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Doesn't matter, moving the goalposts is the name of the game. Was really surprised to learn Caldav is not supported by default by G (the amount of bitching here really gave me the idea it is some kind of standard). If they add Caldav and voip we will learn that cortana/siri/google something is the basic functionality that distinguishes smartphones from featurephones. And it should've been here yesterday, come on Jolla, get your **** together

edit: totally forgot, then there are people who claim smartphone is all about 3 things, facebook, twitter and ... (don't remember) if you don't have native apps for those the platform is dumb and doomed to fail (yes, this is from tmo post)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

certain fanboys ignore that for exactly the same reason, oblivious to the irony of calling the iPhone fans "sheeple".

BTW clearly your and mine definition of "still young" are diametrically different. Sailfish OS is three years old! It started from a highly refined OS that was already two years old at the time. If you are so keen to compare Jolla to iPhone, factor that in too, please.

(Oops, I promised to get out. I'll get me coat.)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Except they can't just reuse years of closed by nokia OS. Move maemo to newest kernel and wayland, or meego, how much of that is open so you can just git clone/make and without crutches? Riiight, whole taskforce works on this, for MS now cheering for debian 8, would they be willing to opensource maemo fully maybe? MS cares about their image and opening something they bought from nokia (n900 support pages now on ms.com) could be a big thread on social media, free PR/publicity (sorry Dave this thread is going places)

ninja edit: did I mention they just released binary compatible with linux program? Linus won :D

Microsoft releasing program for linux: https://twitter.com/code/status/593449017398407169

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Sailfish OS started from parts that were open sourced from MeeGo-project, practically Mer-core and Nemo. There was no refined, complete OS to start from in sense that it would have been only to take and integrate them together (not to mention supporting infrastructure around it and all the bits and pieces that had to be done to integrate newer versions of Qt, Wayland etc.). So on that regard, definition of "three years old" is not that accurate.

In comparison, Android inc. was founded 2003 - it's 12 years before now. It started much like Sailfish did, Google aquired it in 2005. So it has had 10 years of huge resources of Google behind it. Apple's iOS has roots in their iPod, until Jobs figured out that it would make perfect UI for smartphone. It took them quite some time to get necessary functions integrated. Yet, you seem to expect that Jolla develops Sailfish on par with those with fraction of time and resources, and without concrete support from 3rd parties providing/developing certain services. I'd say it's unrealistic.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Sorry, you are right, it is not. Jolla Oy was founded on 29 March 2011. So it's four years and a month. With the years of Maemo and Meego on top of that, but I am happy to not count those.

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Niche platforms keep reinventing the wheel while Google continues to mop up more users en route to becoming the Microshaft of mobile.

I'll skip this round and keep my cash in eager anticipation of step 8 of 6. :)

Re: sailfishOS Upgrade12 discussions
 

Wouldn't hurt to run that VM with SDK and recompile for sailtube, wouldn't cost you any of that cash, probably could bring some donations and userbase