maemo.org - Talk - Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments)

Jolla and Lastu have heard your need and now for a limited time only...(subject to complete closure without notice or refund..)
a multipurpose device that now makes the Lastu people-erm-door-stopper...redundant...(ergo no refund)

It does the job of paperweight, doorstop and soo much more...
from crowd-control to a new (cutting edge) method of mail delivery...(the receiving party must have the patented Lastu glass window to accept incoming j-mail...)

http://s26.postimg.org/lvvefkv89/2016_01_26_9_53_08.png

Dave999

2016-01-26 18:01

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

I don't think lastu will do buissniess with Jolla since they wasn't payed...

Maybe we should join lastu and a do payback scam against Jolla.

tommo

2016-01-26 18:14

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1496456)

I don't think lastu will do buissniess with Jolla since they wasn't payed...

Maybe we should join lastu and a do payback scam against Jolla.

Would be nice if there was even a mention from jolla about the cases. I know they are pretty much useless without a tablet but still, bought, paid and made!

I guess they are in some Chinese landfill by now.

hhbbap

2016-01-26 19:11

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Regarding: "We might even have some positive surprises in stock for you. But more on that will follow, feel free to speculate!"
Maybe they will go for community development, sending out part of source code with suggested improvements/defects and we/one will be asked to contribute, as a response to more open source and listen to community?
:p

JulmaHerra

2016-01-26 19:26

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1496444)

Here we go again, the same old song. Glorious Jolla, bask in the glory of their infinite grace, you unworthy heathens.

Oh yeah. Acnowledging a failure on communication and reactions/reasons to it of course can and will be interpreted like that. :)

Quote:

Yes, you are right. A dialogue does require a listening side. Absolutely! Unfortunately, you have confused the sides. It is Jolla that could do with some listening from time to time.

My take is that incomplete things should be discussed "internally", which means inside company, between partners and not publicly in some random forum as such approach is definitely doomed to fail.

Quote:

In contrast, a "dialogue" with Jolla sounds like this:

You forgot the s***storm. :)

Dave999

2016-01-26 19:31

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra (Post 1496462)

Oh yeah. Acnowledging a failure on communication and reactions/reasons to it of course can and will be interpreted like that. :)

My take is that incomplete things should be discussed "internally", which means inside company, between partners and not publicly in some random forum as such approach is definitely doomed to fail.

For an illustration, this is what a normal dialogue may sound like:

You forgot the s***storm. :)

No more talk by jolla. Action is required. Delivery!

1. Small amount of of tablets in Jan
2. Blog post is around corner
3 surprises

This is what jolla said so far this month and still nothing.

Can make the list longer if we should bring in what they said last year too...action is required.

JulmaHerra

2016-01-26 19:44

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1496450)

You see the problem here that we (not only as company but any mortal here) sometimes face problems that have no right solution. Or in other words you have several options but none of them is good for you. And despite it you still need to make a decision. Maybe hard one, maybe not the best one, but you can't just postpone it every day. The resolution can't be done but just sitting and waiting for a miracle, it only makes thing worse.

Quote:

As about dialog you mentioned above, where exactly were any intentions to communicate somethign with the community. there is no dialog, there is twitter, IRC and TJC where community gives input and Jolla decides if to get back to them or not at all.

Dialog does not mean that community calls the shots for company. Sorry to hurt your feelings about the importance of the community, but that's how life is.

Of course it would be better to simply say "no" than leave it hanging.

Btw. how many of these you have attended?

Quote:

People can understand failure, they do not understand companies that run away.

No. People in general don't understand failure, and they don't understand the effects of failure when there is anything personal at stake. If failure affects them somehow it's usually torches and pitchforks kind of ordeal.

Quote:

And the last thing on topic I would say is that uneducated crowd will always want to burn "the witches" on fire. And you can blame them, but also you can blame those who did not delivered them knowledge.

As we know, the most important thing in life is to find the one to blame. :)

Quote:

If Jolla did nothing wrong and they are not ashamed of their choices - they would not hide it in secrecy, but if they do - there is reason for that. We usually embarrassed to tell bad things and almost never about good things.

It's because failure is deemed to be a shame in itself. No matter how it's sugar coated.

gerbick

2016-01-26 19:49

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Hello people. How are you today?

JulmaHerra

2016-01-26 19:50

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Bad?

With ten characters.

Dave999

2016-01-26 19:50

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1496468)

Hello people. How are you today?

Excellent. You?

mscion

2016-01-26 19:55

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1496468)

Hello people. How are you today?

Couldn't be better! And you?

endsormeans

2016-01-26 20:06

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

I heard Lastu will be collaborating with a new company...called "PayMe"...
"U" is now working with "Me"..
and will be communicating with Jolla in a new and exciting way...
Here is a leaked correspondence from the two to Jolla..

http://s26.postimg.org/o87zqwx7d/201...6_10_13_07.png

I hear they are going to be using the new "Bricku" (buy now Lastu seems to be buying up many for themselves...)
along with their new product lines in conjunction with upcoming Jolla talks..

http://s26.postimg.org/4l9l1asyh/201...6_10_21_15.jpg

the Batu...

and

http://s26.postimg.org/8j1g4g55l/201...6_12_03_33.png

the Boomu

ZogG	2016-01-26 20:12

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra (Post 1496467)

Making hasty decision with worst possible outcome (ie. resulting in not being able to compensate anyone in any way) just to please Mr. ZogG would hardly be an improvement.

They have made a decision, but until everything is worked out it should not be communicated as it would do nothing but harm - they already made a mistake to say they have an "agreement" before it's all ironed out. If it takes time and if you cannot hurry it, your only option is to postpone. Or simply drop the ball, say f*** it, spin down operations and go fishing.

Dialog does not mean that community calls the shots for company. Sorry to hurt your feelings about the importance of the community, but that's how life is.

Of course it would be better to simply say "no" than leave it hanging.

Btw. how many of these you have attended?

No. People in general don't understand failure, and they don't understand the effects of failure when there is anything personal at stake. If failure affects them somehow it's usually torches and pitchforks kind of ordeal.

As we know, the most important thing in life is to find the one to blame. :)

It's because failure is deemed to be a shame in itself. No matter how it's sugar coated.

Interesting that you have info that they made decision. But if they made it why did not they share?
And what should be done if there is no option? You are telling that they can't please everyone but at the same time you are telling that they want not to hurry and please everyone, which is mixed message from you :P

I would not give you my life experience when communication resolved a lot of problems and misunderstandings, but I would to point out that there are zillions of examples when companies failed to deliver or failed in product but did not get s**stroms because they communicated this thru. And I'm by sh***storms I do not mean few grumpy people telling "bad" thigns about company, but as in this situation when a even hardcore Jolla fans that were protecting them suddenly starting to question themselves if it's right thing to do.
The time and excuses were acceptable maybe 3-5 months ago, we are passed it. They can't wait forever. Or would it be acceptable by you to get answer in next 2 years? Because this "soon" is always at least few months and after it we get another "soon". What is the reason to postpone it - they failed and there is no winning option here for them. They can't deliver tablets in near future, they can't refund - just tell me what's the point to wait? Would time resolve the issue?

JulmaHerra

2016-01-26 21:06

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1496477)

Quote:

Or would it be acceptable by you to get answer in next 2 years?

No. My current phone won't last that long, I'll be replacing it during this year. I haven't yet decided which way to go. Neither does Jolla survive that long if they cannot resolve the tabletgate in one way or another.

Quote:

Because this "soon" is always at least few months and after it we get another "soon". What is the reason to postpone it - they failed and there is no winning option here for them. They can't deliver tablets in near future, they can't refund - just tell me what's the point to wait? Would time resolve the issue?

Time won't resolve it. If they think they will have some resolution in next month that does not include the option of not offering anything to anyone, they should take the chance. If they don't, the company is as good as dead. And as in every other aspect of life, survival is always a priority, be it ugly or not. But to tease that you have a solution when you in reality don't yet have it all ready is plain stupid.

The Wizard of Huz

2016-01-26 21:09

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by endsormeans (Post 1496474)

...
along with their new product lines in conjunction with upcoming Jolla talks..

http://s26.postimg.org/4l9l1asyh/201...6_10_21_15.jpg

the Batu...

Hmmm, Batu...Batu...reminds me of Batou.

A much more impressive and effective "weapon" I might add.

peterleinchen

2016-01-26 21:12

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Unfortunately 'Jolla' does not want to listen ...

ZogG	2016-01-26 21:16

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra (Post 1496488)

Um... they made a decision that not everybody will get their tablets and they will offer something to compensate it (or they were forced to make such decision, that's the part we don't know for sure). Also they said that "Now we finally have a resolution agreed and we're now preparing the practicalities and the communication. An update should be out in a few days (next week)", but last week they said there are still some practicalities to sort out, which IMO is stupid - even if there is a basic agreement, it should be a secret until every detail is ironed out. It's mixed because not everything is complete and yet something was leaked out before everything is finalized. Which understandably creates confusion and frustration.

No. My current phone won't last that long, I'll be replacing it during this year. I haven't yet decided which way to go. Neither does Jolla survive that long if they cannot resolve the tabletgate in one way or another.

Time won't resolve it. If they think they will have some resolution in next month that does not include the option of not offering anything to anyone, they should take the chance. If they don't, the company is as good as dead. And as in every other aspect of life, survival is always a priority, be it ugly or not. But to tease that you have a solution when you in reality don't yet have it all ready is plain stupid.

I agree with all your words. But...
That it's not the first time they had information but they decided not to share it (despite promising to share before they knew all details by themselves - e.g. sim card slot hw problems) or when they had information but they decide to "lie" about it by misinformation - e.g. display problems with "we just want to give you better quality display". (those just few examples)
And those exactly the problematic things I'm talking about again and again. And I'm not loud from first day, I'm just getting louder everytime they "pull the Jolla" on us and this pattern got me to be so as they are keeping to do the same thing over and over.

JulmaHerra

2016-01-26 21:23

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

On Sim-card hw I can agree, though I don't know how detailed technical description of the problem would have helped anyone. On display, they did tell why the screen was replaced twice (first to get better quality and high resolution, second to solve the quality problems encountered in mass production which led to PCB changes etc). After that came the financial problems that escalated radically when the financing round was delayed. I know you will be loud and don't even want to think how loud you will be a year from now if Jolla survives that long... :P

Copernicus

2016-01-26 21:55

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wizard of Huz (Post 1496490)

Hmmm, Batu...Batu...reminds me of Batou.

A much more impressive and effective "weapon" I might add.

Also of note, Batu Khan, one of the many powerful leaders of the Mongols.

endsormeans

2016-01-26 21:57

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Coincidentally Batu is also the old Alma Mater of Bruce Wayne...

gerbick

2016-01-26 22:07

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by endsormeans (Post 1496503)

Coincidentally Batu is also the old Alma Mater of Bruce Wayne...

This made me laugh way too loudly...

endsormeans

2016-01-26 22:24

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

:D

Forget "aiming to please" ...
that only counts when in mixed company at the urinals...
(really people...etiquette..etiquette...etiquette...)

I'm firing in all directions simultaneously....

Dave999

2016-01-27 07:11

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

I vote for Jolla skipping the tech. They are not capable enough in that area and instead use the last money for some quality Battuu...

Jolla managed to produce blogpost today or what? Only time will tell.

ZogG	2016-01-27 07:34

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra (Post 1496496)

On Sim-card hw I can agree, though I don't know how detailed technical description of the problem would have helped anyone.

Basically tech details are not bad or good - they just details.
When I buy expensive HW and there are some HW malfunction - I would like to know about it because:
I want to know if I need to worry that I might have the problem
I need to buy new phone and I would prefer to buy revision where it was fixed
I would like to know details and if my HW is effected I would like to try to fix the problem before I encounter it
If i have certain problems I would like to know that this is because of HW and not my operator, sim or SW and try to fix everything around coz I'm unaware of the real cause
Bad reviews about Jolla and no explanation or prove it was fixed in any revision - is bad PR.

JulmaHerra

2016-01-27 08:10

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1496534)

Bad reviews about Jolla and no explanation or prove it was fixed in any revision - is bad PR.

AFAIK it was fixed and said to be a HW fault that will be covered by warranty repair. Deeper details were not disclosed, but it should be enough to conclude that a) it was HW fault and b) it was fixed in newer revision. My phone was changed in warranty for Sim-card problems and failure in vibration motor and have not encountered HW problems since. Reviews on mobile phones are usually not revised after software updates or HW revisions, maybe with the exception of iPhone.

ZogG	2016-01-27 08:26

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra (Post 1496539)

I'm not sure where it was said. As in TJC they ask you to talk to support in private with no information.
I was first one so I assume i have faulty phone, but as i live not in EU i could not go to change it as well i got no info regarding it

att	2016-01-27 10:13

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1496439)

Just wondering. How do you know this?

Because they say so, directly and indirectly. And it makes sense for them to try to solve the tabletgate, just to survive as some other people have also said here.

I don't see malice in their communication and actions but I see incompetence and not understanding for example how they should communicate with their community. Some of that incompetence is them being startup and very small compared to their goals. I would call it pioneer spirit. It also got the mankind to the moon, but the way to there was very rocky and left behind many skeletons. Same here.

mscion

2016-01-27 12:49

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1496449)

I think, this time, Jolla stated the wisest thing ever

"feel free to speculate"

so, again, we follow the slightest hope of infinity.

btw. infinity has no end to it

Yes! Here we go! The same old same old but with a little twist!

ZogG	2016-01-27 13:44

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1496549)

The only difference is that going to moon first time was first time.
Creating own company, phone, Os and delivering it was done by others, even by same people in previous company (Nokia).
And a lot of experience is available from those examples. They even made the marketing site to advise other companies how to do it(jolla adventure or how is it called?) - which is the most ironic thing :)

nestori

2016-01-27 14:02

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Off topic (like the whole thread basically), but it's saddening (for me at least) to think for two, three years back when the Jolla phone was on it's way and then launched, back when there was positive buzz around Jolla and Marc was doing his thing (with publicity) and back when a lot of people were thrilled about the new OS and new phone.

And now we are here.

I wonder when Marc and others who left Jolla realized that it was all going to s**t and decided to abandon the ship.

r0kk3rz

2016-01-27 14:08

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by nestori (Post 1496568)

I wonder when Marc and others who left Jolla realized that it was all going to s**t and decided to abandon the ship.

I think Marc realised that Jolla was moving to a Business to Business type model and not really in need of his particular brand of enthusiasm anymore.

JoOppen

2016-01-27 14:19

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by nestori (Post 1496568)

Three years ago, the buzz was positive and the phone - frankly - not so positive, to say the least. Now, the phone is quite good (despite some shortcomings for me the best - better than BB10, Ios, Android)) but the buzz is negative.

Disappointment depends on your expectations ...

Dave999

2016-01-27 14:43

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoOppen (Post 1496570)

True. Didn't expect to be scamed :D

NokiaFanatic

2016-01-27 15:13

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Here we are, going into February and still no update.

Does anyone have any faith (or even goodwill) in Jolla any more?

JoOppen

2016-01-27 15:22

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic (Post 1496574)

Here Does anyone have any faith (or even goodwill) in Jolla any more?

Yes, I have!

Obsatcle-Man

2016-01-27 15:27

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic (Post 1496574)

Here we are, going into February and still no update.

Does anyone have any faith (or even goodwill) in Jolla any more?

After that last German interview I really have no faith or goodwill for Jolla anymore.

The only thing that makes sense to me is they are figuring out the minutia of exactly how to abandon the project in a legal way. If they were going to deliver or give refunds then they could have announced that by now.

The other hope some people are holding out, for an intex phone (or similar) doesn't make a lot of sense unless it would operate in all countries and carriers the tablet is being sold in. Also many contributers may not want a phone (I know I don't as a Sailfish phone doesn't currently meet my needs in that form factor)

Translated Interview: https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url

NokiaFanatic

2016-01-27 15:52

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obsatcle-Man (Post 1496577)

If Jolla try to walk away from the tablet without doing anything - then they are dead. Even I don't think they are that stupid.

Most likely scenario now is that they are trying to hold off on offering people an alternative, because they want to unveil the alternative (the new Intex phone) at MWC. It stinks that people are having to wait even longer just so Jolla can have a co-ordinated marketing push for MWC.

Obsatcle-Man

2016-01-27 15:56

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic (Post 1496579)

Most likely scenario now is that they are trying to hold off on offering people an alternative, because they want to unveil the alternative (the new Intex phone) at MWC. It stinks that people are having to wait even longer just so Jolla can have a co-ordinated marketing push for MWC.

It certainly will be interesting to see which tech blogs do any investigation and report the tablet situation along with any Sailfish phone news rather than just parroting the press release.

Copernicus

2016-01-27 16:06

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic (Post 1496579)

If Jolla try to walk away from the tablet without doing anything - then they are dead.

Hmm. Gotta say, if Jolla is entirely dependent on the goodwill of a group of people that provided them something like 2 million USD in revenue (leading to negative profit if you factor in the tablet R&D costs), Jolla was dead either way. If Jolla actually tries to give everyone a tablet or a full refund, I suspect it'll have an instant return to bankruptcy.

Jolla's business plan was always to go after the same market that Apple and Google have tapped into, with a cellphone OS targeted to the mass market. They've really spent no time or effort trying to figure out how to derive a sustainable income from folks interested in open source software, nor have they really put much effort into trying to leverage the power of so many knowledgable software engineers in the open source world. These are the people, I think, they could have gained leverage with if they'd done a better job of getting Sailfish out there, but doing so makes no sense given their business plan...

Long story short: The tablet campaign didn't help Jolla at all last year; it was enormously popular, and Jolla went bankrupt anyway. You may say that making campaign contributors unhappy will destroy the company, but making them happy sure did no favors for them...

Dave999

2016-01-27 16:08

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

We will sink their launch if they don't treat us like customers, supporters and fans.

It's unacceptable to wait for MWC!

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