Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

There are several reasons.

At least Tear is currently impossible to get into extras/extras-devel. Unless Vala is currently supported with custom vapis and some changes to system includes.

Another thing is even though I'm not sure Tear is stable enough for mass usage, people are willing to try it and are afraid of extras-devel, and it seems the already existing qole repo is good for easy installation. The only lib in it that exists in extras-devel is libidn11 and its taken from there.

Extras is out of the question yet.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

And none of these things can be worked around or fixed? Have we tried to fix them, or did we just go straight to opening yet another user-hostile 3rd party repository?

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

??????????

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

As much as I like to see stuff in extras, it's just not always possible. I for example did everything I could, but depending on other peoples stuff that isn't in extras totally killed it for me. Getting fscked twice has really killed my motivation too. But show me a person that installed for example RubyBox with a one click install (after trying it by hand) that thinks getting it from a 3rd-party repository is user-hostile. I will gladly put it offline if this is the case.

EDIT: And not to go too off-topic, many thanks Bundyo for Tear, it's great to see someone working on something that is built for the tablet instead of some half-assed non-hildonized "port". It has completely replaced microb for me and I'm loving it.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Making users go to repositories other than Extras is inconvenient, in that it requires them to hunt down a repository for each new package they install; unsafe, as Extras maintains a certain level of quality through certain QA processes and by having lots of eyes on it that random 3rd party repositories don't have; and generally acclimates users to a mindset that they shouldn't have to have ("I need a new repository for every new application" and "It's OK to add random untested and untried repositories to my tablet"), and is, thus, user-hostile.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

I would really like to see our new Debmaster participate in these forums. We could have one or more threads discussing things like repositories, packaging, etc.

However, restarting the Extras vs. 3rd party repositories religious argument in this thread is not good etiquette.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

These cases should be addressed before just giving up. We have lots of helpful people involved with Extras (one of whom is paid fulltime to help people to get their packages into Extras), if you have an issue, talk to one of them, then once it's decided that the issue can't be addressed (there's not many of these, really, even the Fennec problem is being addressed in its own way) you can move on to your own solution.

That's why we want to get everything we can into Extras (with source packages for free stuff), so we don't run into a situation where a disappeared-maintainer brings down half of the bailing-wire-and-chewing-gum system. Extras wont randomly disappear, like 3rd party repositories, and having the source packages on hand gives us a hand up in future package maintenance when a maintainer does disappear.

This is why we have a support structure for Extras. If you have issues, ping the mailing list, ping #maemo, ping bugs.maemo.org, or ping one of the half-dozen knowledgeable people involved to help you.

Going it alone doesn't help the problem to get fixed and it doesn't help your users.

That's the problem, a large portion of users don't really see it as an issue because they don't understand that it's an issue—that is, until adding some random repository drops their device into a reboot loop.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

They probably can, when I consider it stable enough to go to extras and have time for that. 0.3 is near.

I'm already trying to fix enough - I'm porting hildon bindings to Vala, trying to fix the not very adequate hildon support in libwebkit. Oh, and actually write Tear, which is a pleasure compared to the rest. I have a full time job, wife and a 2.5 year old daughter. I can only write after midnight. What else do you want me to fix?

Please open a new thread for this if you want someone else's opinion on this issue, you already know mine.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Contact some of the people whose job it is to help with this stuff and get some help. :)

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

I thought the Summit was for contacting :) No one cared for Vala though.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

i think extra for maemo is almost empty, search the forum for "where the f*** can i find xxx" and make yourself an opinion, if you can without thinking of being Maemo Community Council chair, wathever it means.
i bought an n810 because i thought it was open source and then i find out that i can't have a kernel upgrade because of closed parts of hardware drivers, and then i'm obliged to stick with maemo, not being a programmer.
so nokia is telling me that i can have a full opensource device with rx51. i'm not gonna take it, and i don't like that you pontificate about a 3rd repository against a man who's stealing time to his family to try to add a decent web-browser to an operating system without being paid. i'm a user, not you, and i decide if something is user hostile. 3rd parts repository would be user-hostile if i could hope to find useful apps in extras as i find in a brand-new installed diablo. i think that debian-maemo transition is taking more time to me than the windows-linux transition, wich was some year ago.
sorry bundyo, i'll not post so bad anymore

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Been keeping tabs on this thread and just installed Tear (using Qole's Repo) a few min ago; I'm impressed. Very...

Some sites seem to have an overflow issue with content. Will have to wait and see if this is just a bug in the engine or the sites. So I won't log that yet.

Will chime in on the issue in terms of logging into sites that require user/pass as many of these get prefilled on my N800 and I cannot seem to unfill them to login.

Tear seems to not be a resource hog whatsoever. THANK YOU!!!

That loading bar under the address bar is nice and all, but it looks like a graphical artifact. Personally, I like it when the loading status is in the address bar, it looks cleaner that way.

The placement of the + and reload buttons should be inversed. Or move refresh to a combined function with the green Go. There's no real need to have Go and Refresh IMO. They do the same thing. When one is on a site it should show refresh, when one is typing or has just placed the cursor into the address field then it should be a Go Button (and be a Stop button while a page is loading while I'm thinking about it. Aka, context changing button).

The dropdown in the address filed is nice in that it contains the title field of the sites visited. Wonder what kind of font and style things can be done there to break up the samness of things between the title and addresses (make address a smaller font, bold and italiacs to the title, etc.). I'd also say that having the ability to star/mark as fav from that screen would also be beneficial.

Dashboard is a great idea, but there's too much chrome. Make the 9 boxes larger by about 3-5px w/h and default the address bar to be a google (user configurable???) search. Doing that for the search means that you can move the MRU/BkMks/History tabs to the top, where they would be better seen and more readily used.

Feature Request: Not sure if its possible without one coding this directly, but a function to have Tear (or any other browser) replace the microB as the default browser would be great. Either something in the control panel (guessing that's an applet) or a setting in Tear (and any other browser).

Having only come in at this point, I have to say that I'm really impressed at the progress of this. I'll have to keep at things though since I'm using the IT as a work folder these days.

If GoogleGears/HTML5 local storage is added to tear, and some tolerance settings for the inertial scrolling were added, this would really rock as a nice competitor to Fennec/Firefox.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

being worked on, tear just got dbus support, and that means that dbus-switchboard could be used to control what browser thats being used.

stay tuned ;)

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Alright, so let's start by setting aside the personal attacks. They're neither useful nor productive. Thanks. :)

First, Extras is not empty. Many new packages are added to Extras every week and there are many more existing packages receiving frequent updates. Just take a look at the autobuilder mailing list.

Second, the bit about people not being able to find anything is exactly why I want to see as many packages as possible put into Extras, so users don't have to hunt around for software and random 3rd party repositories disappearing from this reality doesn't cause the software users rely on to disappear as well.

I'm not sure how this relates to Extras and maemo.org, but what closed drivers? Open source WiFi drivers are available and you're certainly not stuck on an old kernel (more importantly, if you're not able to switch to something other than Maemo—Mer and Deblet are pretty easy, really—why do you want a new kernel?).


Alright, fair enough, it's your prerogative as a consumer to decide where you want to spend your money, but, again, I'm not sure how this relates to Extras.

None of the people in this discussion are getting paid to do what they do. We're all volunteers who are trying to make things better for users like you (even if those users don't seem to understand the how or the why of it).

Actually, I, too, am a user. I own a use several tablets day-to-day, which is one of the selfish reasons why I'd like to see the Maemo infrastructure improved.

Of course you wont find many applications on a brand-new Diablo install, as Extras doesn't ship enabled! I'd ask you to do a quick test for me: flash Diablo, open the Application Manager, refresh the application catalog, and tell me how many applications there are available. Then follow these instructions to enable Extras, refresh the application catalog and tell me how many applications there are? A lot more, yes? Well, those all came from Extras.

Alternatively, you can browse around the repository a bit directly then get back to me. . . .

Anyway, this thread has been derailed enough, please contact me directly or open a new thread if you have more questions.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

i didn't have any question

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

I want to do the same, but I'm not aware of any GTK+ control that can do that directly. And as everything in Tear that is not that important and requires more coding, this too is left for later :)

Go and refresh don't do the same thing. Refresh reloads the current page, while Go goes to whatever you wrote. Anyway your context idea is good.

I'm not yet so proficient in GTK+ to do this (though I was considering it. I prefer when the title is highlighted and the domain below.

The address bar already searches in Google. However if there are some symbols in it, it is detected as URL. That's why there is another one. Plus on a 225 dpi screen you wont see 3-5 px size increase :) Also I plan to add more buttons on the right side and make them all user configurable - like assigning a bookmark folder to one. Plus if I make the tabs on top, how will I show off that I made them with inline SVG with vertically rotated text? :)

Currently the svn version can be opened from the command line and the second time it is not starting a new program, but a new window. Plus you can open a url with a standard dbus method_call.

There should be local storage support in this WebKit version, though I didn't test if it is working properly.

Just as a reminder - could you people also post these bug reports on the project bug tracker, I just enabled guest reports. Here.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

That's an interesting note about the search. I would not have guessed that search is enabled from the address bar in that view. Can the text there be changed from "about:blank" to "Search or Type Web Address?"

Inline SVG is indeed cool; yet my mind always looks at form following function and experience. Very cool that you have that tech there, me begins to get ideas amore.

I'm a former web developer and graphic artist, I can see pixels just about everywhere on just about every device. Its honestly the most annoying thing I encounter in terms of being in front of a computer all the time. Though since I did mention it, are the sizes of those boxes percentage based or hard coded?

EDIT: Previously mentioned bug now posted.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Hello qole! How are you? I'd to help out with packaging tear. :^)

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

I'll help out if I can, you guys can reach me at jeremiah@maemo.org and on #maemo.

I also want to say that those of us who work on maemo and on maemo.org are serious about helping with packaging and getting your software into the repos on maemo. We are improving quality assurance for packages with some new tools. We are going to expand the repos so that there is a more volatile repo you can use to upload to if you just want some place to put a package that might not be ready for extras or even extras-devel. We expect more packages in the repos for fremantle and are serious about being prepared for the influx.

In short, we want to make the maemo repos the go-to place for community packages when a user wants to find a new web browser or game. To do that, I hope to demonstrate that maemo is working hard to help developers as much as we can.

I hope to be in touch with you about tear and packing it for extras.

Thanks and warm regards,

Jeremiah

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

i like the dashboard tabs as they are, on the side. i use the tablet with one hand a lot and i can't reach all the way across the top of the screen with my left thumb while holding the tablet in my left hand. i would like the bookmarks tab on top, though.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

There's web inspector on tap and hold :D

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

used the repo-all good -

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

It keeps surprising me the pictures don't load. I expect pictures, like in Opera's Speeddial and Coverflow. I think users would like to see the picture of the page as it looks when they load it.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

@Bundyo

I know you're busy, but I was wondering when you were going to release a new webkit. I noticed that they're not calling the download object WebDownload, they're just calling it Download. And I'm sure you already know about the missing encoding calls. Maybe updating webkit would be a nice break from the other Tear stuff. :)

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work. I love tear, and am using it full time.

I knew based on where I got it from there were certian risks, if I was uncomfortable with that I wouldn't have installed it. All linux distributions (as far as I can tell) have associated main repositories and all have the ability to add other 3rd party repositories. Such is the openness of linux. Why should I expect maemo to be any different?

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

You can't be sure of the repos in that part of town. The server rooms are dimly lit and the javascript is suspicious-looking.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

How about the waitresses? Skanky looking?

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

The tablet is too underpowered to make thumbs of every site on its load. Though I will probably try it at some point. I was thinking more like to place favicons there.

The patch they incorporated is libsoup 2.4 only. That happened about the same time they dropped CURL in favour of libsoup. And that is stopping me from going this way for now. After 0.3, I'll make the update to newer WebKit, there's already a feature request for that on Tear's tracker.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Bundyo, i noticed, that chromium as well as chrome has no problem with any forums or maemo wiki. Could you have a look at it? ;)

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

When I fill in this, and click on OK, the app manager says 'Enter web address first' while I already filled in this.
And I cannot connect to the web address as well.

Is there another way to add tjhis repo ?

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

UPDATE:
Later on I re- filled in this repo and it succeeded.
Then I did apt-get -f install and it installed OK.

Thanks !

But now the next question :

How can I get a URL in the URL field ? Copy / paste does not work and there is no such thing as open a local file. And is there a history ?
Overtyping is very time consuming and error prone.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

i suspect something is a bit foobar with said repo, as its taking forever and a day to update. when i tried using apt-get, it said "waiting for headers" while the data counter where continually increasing...

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

It refreshes fine for me, though lately , even before I added it it takes forever it seems to refresh.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

the more repos one have configured, the longer a refresh will take...

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

I know that, I do have alot of repos, always have...Im saying that lately its been taking longer and hanging up like it hasnt before with the same repos

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Some repos go out of business and apt-get is waiting for the default timeout. You should remove those.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Bundyo, thought about adding to debian/control something like http://pastebin.com/f6de6fe29 ?

Added that manually to dpkg's status file and got:

http://i39.tinypic.com/30jpegl.png

I think it looks better :)

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

For those of us who avoid the command line, a one button install would be nice from Maemo.org or extras.

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

How can I add a local HTML file (a start page) to the Tear browser ?
I only see nine digits 1 to 9 in a kind of phone keypad to which I can add real websites (starting with http://) but no sites starting with file:// .

Re: Tear 0.3 - Simple WebKit browser, now with Dashboard
 

Use the address bar, then bookmark it.