Re: First N900 Review
 

Generally multi-touch means no stylus, no stylus means no handwriting, no note-taking (with a stylus), thus no Xournal :p

Joking, but true, multi-touch screen do not have high resolution for the touch. This sucks.
Until they fix it (and seems like they're doing it), I much prefer resistive screens with a nice UI than a multi-touch capacitive screen.

Re: First N900 Review
 

Multi-touch for the iPhone OS Google Earth app is undisputedly cool. That said, how often do I use that app? Not since the day I installed it. As I've mentioned before, multi-touch is not needed for zooming/unzooming in mobile Safari 99.99% of the time. The iPhone OS webkit double-tap/zoom-to-the-div-width feature (WebTap?) practically eliminates the need for multi-touch. So, in general, how often do I use multi-touch? .01% of the time. YMMV*, blah, blah blah, blah blah.

*May increase risk of heart attack or may cause anal leakage.

Re: First N900 Review
 

So you can multi-touch zoom with the device in your hand without using the other hand?

Re: First N900 Review
 

I think multitouch is great for manipulating 2D objects like photos. You can perform manipulation of 3 separate functions at the same time and intuitively compared with single touch: move, rotate and zoom.

This isn't necessary for most other operations (browsing, email, file operations, etc). So.. horses for courses.. etc.

Btw, double-tap/zoom-to-the-div's-width is a NECESSITY for a device with 3.5" screen :D

Re: First N900 Review
 

Maybe he has more fingers than you? Or a handy iphone stand on one of them :D

Re: First N900 Review
 

Yes, it's very easy to use multi-touch for zooming using only one hand.
It's the way everyone use it!

But still.. it's nothing more than a wow effect. Nothing mandatory.

Re: First N900 Review
 

how would you do this?

if i hold any phone in my hand, the only finger i can touch the front side with is my thumb. i couldn't possibly bring any other finger to touch the screen at a certain point, let alone perform coordinated gestures.

Re: First N900 Review
 

I also have the impression that the most common way to zoom with multitouch is to hold the device in one hand and zoom with two fingers from the other - hence using two hands. But aren't we veering a bit off topic here?

Re: First N900 Review
 

With your palm facing the screen, put your thumb on the bottom, pinky and ring finger on top. This leaves both your index and middle fingers free to touch the screen. But you would usually only do this if you were in a pinch. :)

Re: First N900 Review
 

EDIT: Sorry I totally misunderstood :) With one hand on the iPhone can be done, but it awkward... I dunno what I was thinking, probably comparing laying the phone on the table and using two hands against holding the phone with one hand and use the other to multi-touch :)

Forget what's below:

Wow.. with one hand you hold the phone, the other hand does multi-touch:

place thumb and index fingers and move them away from each other -> the picture, website will zoom in

place thumb index fingers away from each other and move them to meet at the centre of the screen -> zoom out

That complicated?

If you're playing a game, you hold the phone horizontally and use the two thumb fingers.

I can't think of any other way of using multi-touch...

Edit: look for example at how this guy uses it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk-WQ18IRdQ

Re: First N900 Review
 

Thanks for revealing this "multi-touch with one hand" secret. I tried to demo this with N810 (just as a mock-up device, obviously not multi-touch capable), but found it pretty difficult. The index and middle finger aren't very flexible (at least mine...). There are only some certain areas on the screen you can reach with reasonable difficulty. The bottom part of the screen is almost completely covered with the hand/fingers. If you need visibility to the bottom part of the screen, then this method is not very useful.

Re: First N900 Review
 

No, it's just that as benny, says, it's hard to do with one hand. Now, we all know cool people don't do stuff with one hand as it's too geeky (it means that you're either capable of doing two things simultaneously, or that you're packed up, both signs of non-hipness). The put-cup-down-to-zoom-or-scroll-then-pick-it-back-up during morning newsreads is not my idea of usability.

Re: First N900 Review
 

I've updated that answer, I was totally lost :)
Was thinking at something else.. :P

Re: First N900 Review
 

For the type of application not only Google Earth.

Because double tap allows you to conveniently zoom in on the place you want to read/see. When that doesn't work well, such as in Google Earth, you need 'pinch' gesture.

Yes, I can.

To clarify: let the device lay down on your hand palm and spread your 3 fingers. Then use thumb and point finger to zoom. After that you can use either one of those fingers to to move left/right/up/down.

Case in point: I've used this in Munich, in the rain, while using my iPod touch to load some Google Maps from an open WiFi AP.

Its not what I'd call convenient but usable for emergency or quick usage. For most people however something, e.g. a seperate hand, has to hold the device.

I can do what you imply with my E71 (I zoom in, out, and move left/right/up/down) easier than I was able to do that on my Nokia N810 however it still takes various buttons to press and therefore attention/focus. Multi touch gets me to the map quicker because I visually 'travel' through the map. With buttons it feels more ar-ti-fi-cial.

Re: First N900 Review
 

You guys are talking about multitouch as if 90% of the tablet's operation is going to be using it. Even on the iPhone it's sort of an optional gesture to use... for the most part (90%), you can manage the phone with a single hand, tap & double tapping your way around.

On the browser (the most important app to me), it takes a quick double-click to zoom into the target's div-width. Another double click to zoom out. Single click to pick a link. That's all there is to it. I very rarely need to manually zoom in\out with multitouch... and when I do, I very much prefer the fluidness and precision of multitouch than (-)(+) buttons like on the Android's browser.

Re: First N900 Review
 

I not say one-handed multi-touch is zohan silky smooth, but I tell you, I do this.

Re: First N900 Review
 

You need multitouch for piano applications. Apart from that, it's mostly a sales pitch. HP has multitouch on some of their laptops, and I bet not any of you have bothered to check out which models those are. But had it been Apple laptops that had multitouch, we'd never heard the end of it.

Re: First N900 Review
 

actually, latest apple laptops do have multitouch

Re: First N900 Review
 

If interested in how really there is no apple mutitouch patent in the sense that it would actually affect anything but some special case:
http://gizmodo.com/5142445/dissectin...n-it-stop-palm
actually the part where gizmondo guys themselves try to make sense of it is where you should stop reading.

For the cases that they are discussing afterwards, there are prior art cases (like the rotation).

Re: First N900 Review
 

Actually, even a lowly iBook from 2003 does have limited multitouch capability (using a third-party driver): the two-finger scroll as well as two-finger tap for secondary button press. And let me tell you, it was a revelation when I first tried it, after using regular touchpads and trackpoints on PC laptops for so long.

It's still the only multitouch gesture I regularly use on my latest version MacBook Pro, even though it supports pinch, rotate, three- and four-finger swipe gestures as well.

That said, I personally don't cosider multitouch a necessary feature on a mobile device. 770, N800 and N810 all have pretty mediocre resistive touchscreens. I would prefer a high-resolution, accurate, sensitive resistive touchscreen over capacitive touchscreen any day.

Re: First N900 Review
 

Aye.
Two fingers scroll and right click are awesome.
The 3 fingers expose shortcuts are rather nice too.

For a smartphone with sub 4" screen, which are often used 1 handed anyway, I think a capacitve screen with appropriately designed UI would work better than resistive screen.

Of course having the cake and eating it too would be preferable: HTC has patented a high resolution stylus+capacitive screen system.

Re: First N900 Review
 

If it is so, then I am wrong: I thought that the quoted price in dollars was the right one.
I just wanted to point out that these companies usually sell for the same amount in euros, dollars and pounds. Sometimes the euro amount is even higher than the dollar amount :mad:

Re: First N900 Review
 

780 euro would be the only reason why not to get this phone. I can live with 550 euro but 780 euro is to much an will kill the phone.

Re: First N900 Review
 

And this is one feature which totally kicks *** in a trackpad. Forward/back, next/previous tab and scrolling all on the trackpad makes browsing very convenient.

Re: First N900 Review
 

Now that^ is something that might be worth having multi-touch on a portable device and that is, if the tablet could also be used as a Bluetooth pointing device for a big screened desk or laptop. :cool:

Especially cool if one of the tablets drives was recognized and accessed by the other machine as portable storage...

and...

Agreed... besides, I'd rather keep my middle finger free at all times... for social commentary. :D

Re: First N900 Review
 

Assuming for the sake of argument that Apple owns such a patent (which has not been demonstrated), if Apple thinks it will make more money by not licensing the patent, or by not licensing it to particular companies, it won't.

Re: First N900 Review
 

LOL... I love that game. And I have to admit, we're probably more responsible for nutty phrases than anyone... not counting the occasional hilarious translation. :D

Re: First N900 Review
 

And remember to throw in the hard case! ;-)

Re: First N900 Review
 

Not sure if Apple still "owns" the patent to multi-touch. Last I heard some company in Asia was suing Apple for patent infringement over multi-touch.

Re: First N900 Review
 

As much as I enjoy speculating, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, eh? ;)

Re: First N900 Review
 

and never isi iti am around a lot of iphone users and i dont thak i ave ever seen any of them use multitoushh. They are like most fols

Re: First N900 Review
 

as far as I know, Apple did not invent multi-touch. Indeed, as usual, they bought the license and brought it to the masses with plenty of fanfare (what many call 'rising the bar').

Re: First N900 Review
 

Better make sure you sound smart before daring to call others 'fols',
mate ;)

Just a friendly advice.

Re: First N900 Review
 

I'll give him the benefit of a doubt that the typo hides 'folks' and not a missing 'o' :)

Re: First N900 Review
 

Either way, it looks like he's havin a smashin weekend ;D

Re: First N900 Review
 

Hi Maemo dudes! This is my first post :cool:

I am Scottish and have been living and working in Finland for the past 10 years.

I am a huge mobile tech addict and a big fan of Nokia - though hopefully not infected with the blind fanboy virus :)

I have always admired Nokia's internet tablets but my personal holy grail is the all-in-one powerhouse device - which obviously includes cellphone functionality. Whilst there will always be inherent compromises in such a device (e.g. screen size), technological advancements, convergence and miniturisation are bringing us very close. Some people think we're already there with the iPhone - but for me the OS is crippled by the lack of multi-tasking and file management and the device is a triumph of form over function.

So RX-51, the first Maemo 5 device has hit me like a shot of adrenaline to the heart:D The implications for high end Nokia devices are enormous. As Eldar says, Nokia now have a scalable vertical OS. They also have recently entered into strategic partnership with Intel. So talking about resistive vs capacitive screens kind of misses the big picture. This is a major strategic move from Nokia and all kinds of devices will be produced; from 3.5" to 11", small keyboard, large keyboard or no keyboard, capacitive and resistive, all with an ever improving combination of OS, application suite and chipset.

I am quite surprised by some views in this forum that the integrated cellphone radios are undesirable. The only reason I can imagine for this attitude is cost as a result of the backwards and anti-competitive US network operators. From a pure technological point of view why would anyone not want always on high bandwidth connectivity in their device? In Finland and much of Europe we can buy devices without contracts and unlimited 3G/HSPA data plans are very reasonable. The networks are also very good.

But competition and logical inevitability will win out - the future of MID's or internet tablets or netbooks or laptops includes integrated cellular data capabilities.

I think that the RX-51 will be a great device with many flaws (OS, software, device build, etc.) but I will buy one as soon as I possibly can :D Maemo 5 has a great future and I want to be on the train right from the start.

I look forward to sharing in your excitement and learning from your experiences.

Cheers!

PS - I do not and have never worked for Nokia but my work has often been in closely related areas.

Re: First N900 Review
 

Sure, and Nokia can mention that a few of their patents are going to become more expensive to license for the next iPhone...

But unless Apple insanely overestimates the threat from the RX-51, it makes no sense to turn down revenue from it. The Pre was obviously (to me, anyway) a much greater threat to Apple than the RX-51, so if they were going to play hardball on a patent, I think they'd have done it there already.

Re: First N900 Review
 

Only in Finland, Sweden and other nearby countries. In the rest of europe data rates are either outrageously high or outrageously crippled and the networks are just so so.
Not to mention the outrageously high roaming charges.

Re: First N900 Review
 

T-Mobile UK are offering unlimited data for a £7.50 monthly add on fee - that's not that much.

But you are right, mobile data prices are still generally high and 3G/HSPA network coverage generally poor. This situation is improving all the time though so I stand by my comment that integrated cellular radio is an absolute must have for any personal computing device.

Living in Finland has to have some advantages :cool:

Re: First N900 Review
 

some more info about n900