Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I think Nokia's aim with the N900 and Maemo 5 was to see how the techie/geek community would embrace the device. I think it's a safe bet to say that most of us, who aren't students, have better paying jobs than the average consumer, and therefore can afford several high end devices a year. Maemo 5 in a sense is a proving ground for what is going to work when it's sent out to the masses in Maemo 6. It makes logical sense to have compatibility on the N900 to have Maemo 6 because they can have two version of Maemo 6, capacitive and resistive, which I think might be the goal. I think Nokia has been tightlipped about it all, because why let the competition have any sort of information in a cutthroat industry such as this?

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Thanks for that explanation. Now let me explain from a CUSTOMER point of view (since I can vote with my wallet by never purchasing another Nokia device again, and influencing my family and peers to do the same)

I bought the N900 1 month ago. After monitoring the bug tracker and the brainstorm(lol..) section of this site, I'm noticing a LOT of issues being pushed off on the NEXT version of maemo, and there IS NO OFFICIAL WORD that maemo 6 will even work on the N900. As a consumer, this sickens me. Technical reasons or not, Nokia ****ed up, and I know I'm not the only consumer of the N900 that is thoroughly upset with Nokia's 1) lack of communication with the customers, 2) focusing bug fixes and features on a totally different OS ONE(1) MONTH AFTER IT IS RELEASED (again that may not even work on N900, but Nokia gives NO peace of mind here!)

As a business professional, I SERIOUSLY question the "do not tell the customer anything!" strategy that Nokia is taking on this issue (and pretty much every issue I can remember with my experience dealing with Nokia and their products). Some companies can be successful in slowly feeding information to customers (Apple), Nokia has demonstrated time and time again that they are doing it totally wrong.

Hey Nokia, quit avoiding the question. Will Maemo 6 run on the N900?

/very disgruntled customer

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Apple are, yes (so far anyway - rumours are this is changing with the next version). Android aren't getting version updates. Not sure about Blackberry or WinMo, and Palm are too recent to know.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

android doesnt get updates?

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Thanks given for the laugh this gave me.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Eh?

The G1 got from 1.5-1.6, the only reason it's not going to 2.0 is there isn't space in the boot area.. The CLIQ is not getting 2.0 because most of the features added to 2.0 were done the "motorola" way with their BLUR. But both of these devices still get updates if a flaw is found in the kernel, etc.

The Droid should be getting an update to 2.0. Several other lesser-known androids will get it too.

Not to mention, that almost 2 years after the G1 release, I still get new apps on it. If the N900 is surpassed in 6-8 months after release.. there will be no new apps for it. Just like there are no new apps for the N810 really anymore. Even most of the old apps in independent repo's are dead and gone.

So yes.. the G1 is still not yet abandoned - and even if it became obsolete tomorrow lasted longer than what it appears the N900 will last at twice-three times the price.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Motorola recently announced that the cliq is in fact getting 2.1. Also the droid shipped with 2.0, so its update will be to 2.1. It seems that none of the other manufacturers would pull this move.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Is that really so difficult to answer??? DIRECT ANSWER FROM AN OFFICIAL SOURCE is just what the majority of the community is demanding, not even have to give us the date...

If Nokia will indeed support Maemo 6 on N900, why keep it a secret??

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

This release cycle just seems strange to me. I don't think the specs can be that much different from the N900. Probable enhancements for the N910 will just be capacitive screen, more mem and faster cpu in Mhz. In light of these speculations Harmattan in my mind is going to run on the N900.

The poor implementation of Ovi Maps really pisses me too, but realistically I don't need the service critically. Turn by turn navigation is coming but probably not from Nokia first.

The apathy from these forum posts is really contagious and im feeling the depression already and I haven't owned the device even for a week. I really hope we just keep out hopes and spirits high and try to offer our support to those devs that are doing a good work developing apps that we want and giving positive feedback.

Spreading negative and apathic rumors around only makes new users like me feel that I made the wrong decision to invest in only the best device on the market.

Quit the negative rumor spreading and start spreading positive feelings and positive ideas.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Those are minor version updates, not much different than the PR1.0, PR1.1, and forthcoming PR1.2 updates for the N900.

The Droid came with 2.0 didn't it? Again, a minor update to 2.1 is predicted.

I still get new apps for my N800. This has nothing to do with support by Nokia/Google though - it's down to the developers. And the G1 release date was Oct 08, so it's not even 1.5 years old yet.

I'm quite willing to admit that Nokia are failing to make the commitment they ought to for longer term support (whether they fail to offer the support will only be seen in time though). To claim that all their competitors are far superior in this matter is way off mark though.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Nokia has certainly gotten things all wrong if they are both dropping package compatibility between different versions and ALSO not providing major release upgrades to older devices. Not caring about binary compatibility works for open source/ free software because everybody can always be running the latest version. Having neither the latest upgrades nor binary compatibility is the most braindead way one can do things. It means a lot of porting between the different devices all the time and zero buildup of available packages.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

nope, can't ignore your best phone to date... its like benching your best player and losing.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

The support for older Android phones is in stark contrast with the Maemo experience. While I love the N900 the lack of Nokia support means that my next phone will have to be Android.

Such a terrible shame Nokia is letting this beautiful architecture die.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

True, but I guess motorola announced an upgrade to 2.1 according to alexreed: that's not a minor update.

Yeah I jumped the gun on this one.. I just remember it *was* getting an update and didn't check my versions. This was my bad.

You still get new apps from the official repositories for your N800? How many and how often? This is surprising seeing how upset so many people on here that had their previous tablets are. I know I didn't touch my N810 from around 8 months from when I last flashed diablo... not a single update appeared in my notification area or HAM.

I disagree on the second part.. Android with even their first product of G1 still sells and still maintains the platform. You're right that it's just over a year, the end of this year would mark 2, since android itself has been on the market but the original phone just hasn't "died". Every day I can refresh the App Market and see new things. This is due to the nature of android being so universal.

The longest player in the game is Apple since it was first (for this specific phone market).. and it is still updating their first device.

The N770 has long since stopped receiving official updates, the N810 was released in 07 and stopped receiving even minor revisions within a year, from diablo (in 08). The G1 I believe got some form of update in January of this year, I just can't seem to find the details on it.

So yes.. I do think they are failing when compared to their US competitors.

Re: What mobile review n900 - maemo 6
 

I have a N800 and upgraded to the N810 when it was released. This is the first I have heard about a discount on the N810.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Given that Nokia hasn't opened any parts of Maemo 4 in the last year even though Maemo 5 won't work on N8x0, I'd say it's unlikely.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Well, Nokia should've/would've things aside, my pint-of-beer-bet is that Qt 4.6 (a.k.a. PR1.2) *is* the silent official upgrade path for the N900 as theoretically that should mean easy backports from Maemo6 (unless DUI messes things up).

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

wont die, my guess is whatever they do as far as update or new os, there will be a n900 version.. why cause all the tech in the n900 is new!!! thus meaning the next will most likely have the same tech specs..

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Whoa, never mind Nokia ignoring the N900, you lot have already decided to do so, where do I slit my wrists. :(

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Ok, I gotta say a few things...

1st, the G1 is now only getting minor updates and would probably not get those except it's still on the market. The original iPhone and iPhone 3G get updates becuse it's still on the market (3G anyway) and easy to do. Don't kid yourself that it's because Apple 'cares' about customers molre than Nokia. No doubt the N900 will get at least some support as long as it's sold and reasonable to do so also. When it's only avaiable on Ebay and/or too difficult support for almost any device stops.

2nd, Android OS updates are pretty hit-and-miss, both for users and developers. A lot of stuff can and does break. iPhones have had serious update horrors too, despite the Apple gestapo's iron-fisted control. The OTA update of my N900 went perfectly.

3rd, while sure, a Harmatten upgrade would be nice, I really don't much care. Maemo 5 is nice and will still work fine after Maemo 6 and 7 are out. If I can just get bugfixes and maybe even some updates to the basic apps for the next year or 2 - basically the lifetime of such a device, I'm cool with that.

Happily peckin' away on my N900...

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Here we go... deep breath:

Should it ever be confirmed that Harmattan is not going to be made available for the N900 I would urge the Community Council to resign en mass. Everyone should unsubscribe from the mailing lists. Bugzilla accounts should be deleted.

I know for sure that my involvement would end, permanently (some of you may say that's a good thing! ;)) and I would switch to a competing device and very likely never come back to Nokia, ever.

The purpose of filing bugs, and being involved in this community is, if we're honest, mainly selfish as we want to see the products we already own improve. So it really, really sucks to spend all our time finding and filing bugs only to discover that in order to obtain any kind of resolution we need to purchase yet another device costing several hundred pounds/dollars/euros.

And you make this purchase KNOWING that it will result in the same torment: find a bug, file a report, watch it lie dormant for months only to be resolved in a future OS incompatible with your current device. You will not see any benefit* from filing that bug on your current device. Really, why should we bother?

This is NOT how the competition behaves.
This is NOT how the competition treats its loyal customers and community members.
This IS why Nokia must change.

Harmattan must be made available for the N900, forcing owners to buy a new device with each OS release is simply the fastest way to alienate customers. And I can't see content partners being too happy about it either.

* Obviously some bugs will be fixed for the current device, but many others never are, and enhancements are can be forgotten.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Droid gets updates!!!!!

But it is true that the G1 will not get an Android 2.0 because the hardware cant support it supposedly.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Um.. except for the fact that "bugs" and "feature requests" are getting marked as "fixed in harmatten?"

So... how long exactly do you expect to be getting bugfixes again?

I know I'm being a bit of a naysayar... but I'm pretty annoyed ATM now that I've seen at least some form of an official statement saying there will be no M6 on the N900.

IF the bugs in bugzilla and current feature requests *for* the N900 were being marked as fixed *for the N900* then this would not be an issue.. they still support Maemo 5 and Maemo 6.. while I personally think that's a waste - so be it.

But with things being marked as "milestone: harmattan" and set to "fixed".. that implies to me that it will not be fixed or added to the N900. You have what you've got, be happy with it. I don't like that idea.

And it doesn't matter if apple "cares" for their customers.. we all know they dont.. what matters is, from a consumer perspective, the guy who purchased his iphone 3 years ago still got updated.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

all about the hardware.. nokia will not kill a flagship device over night. plus they need to bank off the opps factor (did not expect n900 to take off) and keep it going.. best handset to date..

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

It would be very short sighted not to upgrade the firmware on the iPhone. The users can still buy things in AppStore and iTunes Music Store.
New function weren't implemented and some software is not running on the iPhone 1G or 2G the way it meant to be.

Hopefully Nokia will do this the same way with the N900 but on the other side I doubt. Would be a pleasant surprise ;)

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Technically it doesn't matter in Maemo 5 is going to be upgraded to Maemo 6 given we know Qt 4.6 is being ported to Maemo 5 (available Q1 2010, in beta now). that means applications from Maemo 6 should run on Maemo 5 assuming they don't require hardware specific to the Maemo 6 device.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Rafa Benitez* is running Nokia? That explains it all! :)

* Rubbish football manager of Liverpool FC

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Heres the thing.

I'm paying £30 a month to Vfone for the pleasure of using my N900 NOW. In 18 Months I expect to b paying £25 a month. And they will throw in an N9XXX or what ever it is.

THATS THE DIFF between the N770,N800,N810.

So while it might have pissed me off when I had those devices, strangely enough I'm pretty easy with the whole situation. Do I regret getting the N900, nope still cant see an alternative out there for my needs.

(Apologies in advance to those that did not buy on contract).

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Correct, not everything works.. but it wasn't abandoned either.

What irks me, as I said, is combination of current problems with the devices, and feature requests for this device (which it's capable of), being marked as fixed in harmattan - and then Nokia saying Harmattan will not be on the N900. Especially this soon after the devices launch.

When you add these two together you get an abandoned device. Certain bug requests not being fixed, and many feature enhancements will not be added. It's a disturbing thought, IMHO.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Or those that could not... since the N900 is not available to any US carrier subsidized (that i am aware).

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Or like trading your best receiver, T.O., and improving?

Actually that might not be a bad analogy. T.O. (Terrell Owens, for that part the world that follows a different form of football) is a very gifted player who would be a very desirable player in a single player sport. Unfortunately he plays a team sport and he doesn't work well with the rest of the team.

Nokia, Maemo, and the N900 seem, in a sense, to be like this. Nokia has no overarching team concept when it comes to hardware. One could not upgrade a Nokia device and expect to get the same functionality plus more. Instead, some capabilities will be new, some old capabilities will work better, but some old capabilities may have vanished. Maemo bounces from being Nokia's star to being Nokia's unwanted step-child depending on which company representative is talking to which audience. Then, when you get down to specific implementations, the N900's various apps don't seem to form a team, just a group of players who often seem to be going in opposite directions.

Looking at this jumble is one thing that can make a lesser device like the iPhone attractive. Devices with equivalent or better hardware running Android are even more attractive. And the "we're more open" argument is running thin.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I don't get it - what difference does it make if you bought your phone with an interest free loan (aka contract) or purchased it outright/SIM free? You're still stuck with a super phone that most likely will not receive updates after at most 12 months, while the competition are still supporting devices from 3 years ago.

The competition entice customers to upgrade by offering improved hardware but still supporting old customers, while Nokia "entice" customers to upgrade by shutting down firmware updates!

Phones aren't cheap, and there is no respect for loyalty from Nokia. Times are changing, Nokia should too. :)

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Millhouse
How about OUR elected council members stand up and make our statement heard. I think the only thing Nokia are going to reply to is the patter of feet leaving the Maemo Open source door. If ,and that is a big if, Nokia eventually officially announce non compatibility for Maemo 6 and the N900 we as their Beta Testers should show them we will not stand for it. Why should we be non paid, non appreciated, non informed and non listened to Bug fixers, App writers and indeed customer relation managers. The majority of new personel on here from Sep last year onwards only did so after hearing about the Flagship device Nokia was releasing. The amount of times a thread has been answered with the time old "Next firmware release", "Be patient and Nokia will announce" and the best one "It'll be fixed in Harmattan". This device cost alot of money and indeed will be some peoples main phone for the next 2 years. To stop supporting it after only 1(ONE) month is not only rediculous but god damn insulting.

Anyway just my 2 cents....

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Than just give the N900 a runaway and tell Nokia what you're thinking about their behaviour.
I like the N900 very much, but if they don't support a 600€ device, I wont buy a device ever again ;)

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

has there been any offician confirmation that no M6 on n900?

havent previous versions recieved updates

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

To those worried about long-term support...then just don't get a N900. It's like linux distros. Do I load Fedora/Unbuntu and get the latest and greatest cutting-edge stuff or go for RedHat Enterprise/Debian Stable for 7-year long-term support? Ya can't have it both ways. In this case, the N900 is the cutting-edge choice.

In the tech world there's always something newer and shinier just around the corner that your present PC/TV/phone/microwave/vacumn cleaner can't use. So wait for Maemo 6 or 7 or Android 3 or 4. Wait 'til Apple guarantees 7 year iPhone support. Use a rotary phone. They still work.

I just know this N900 seriously kicks the *** of the G1 it replaced. Whatever bugs are in Maemo 5 aren't bothering me. Everything I struggled to do on the G1 I blast right through with the N900 now. This thing works great for me. If it doesn't get another bug fixed from now on, I'm still glad I ditched Android and bought a N900. And that's the bottom line for me.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

/sigh this pose is making me regret buying my n900 now -_-

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

I also think that the (lots of) complains on talk.maemo.org are having little effect, not to say no effect at all.

The complains must be done directly to Nokia employees who have the authority to give us any definitive answer, and ultimately write to Mobile Review sites and similar media channels to get bad publicity. Sure this would be the last resource since it could hurt Maemo future generally, but as a customer I won't accept to be left with a 2-months old phone already deprecated, and one that I paid big bucks for.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

All I got to say is i left HTC/winmo for this? I was tired of htc hardware short coming with lack of proper drivers for there phones and low specs and even more tired of winmo slow to release a proper rom to the carriers so they can release it to the masses. And when custom roms making your phone better but stop simple but needed features thats not cutting. So I set out to find a new phone. Iphone was out of the question the itouch is all I needed from apple. The palm pre didnt fit my needs and design was not to my liking. The blackberry "paper os" couldn't do much for my needs either. And I just wasn't ready to give google my "soul" just to use one of there phones even though they have pretty okay phones. All the while hunting for a phone all I can remember is how great my nokia n95 8gb was. Than I stumbled across the nokia N900 and was blown away had to have it. Did my research and made the choice to buy it outright(like I do all my phones) and was amazed by it but hearing nokia might not support the device much longer is sadden. They not treating the n900 as a flagship phone should be treated. Nokia really have a gem on they hands just needs to be polished like an gem to truely shine.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

I was in a hurry, didn't recall the original details, and erred to the side of caution.