Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

You miss the point of this.

The point is that if you're an early adopter for a new platform, you *will* face teething issues, and you *may* have a hard time or some missing features. That's the way of things.

On the up side, you get geek kudos for having a new toy before anyone else.

I understand perfectly that this may not be what you want, but in such a case, I'd suggest skipping the N900 for a few months, or all together. It has (and will) have teething issues.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Well, you know that, I know that, but everybody does not know that. Does it say so on the package?

You're a Finn, right? Read the threads on whatever kauppalehti and taloussanomat and ilta-sanomat etc. about this phone. Do you think everybody there who says they're getting this really know about the step 4/5 thing? I doubt it. Nokia has been pretty quiet about this thing lately but at first they were clearly hyping it as the next "big thing", OPK included. I think they got a bit carried away with it themselves too and are on purpose not claiming it to be the flagship anymore (if they ever did, it certainly sounded like Maemo is the next great thing from Nokia for a while). It does not come with a disclaimer of "this is beta hardware, don't buy this unless you know how to use Linux etc." When it gets to the stores, it'll be sitting there on the shelf alongside all the other phones. No disclaimers or warnings. The mobile computer terminology stuff is nonsense, the N95 was marketed as a mobile computer too. This is a phone (with more/different extra functionality than some other smartphones) that perhaps got a little bit more mainstream publicity than it should have at this point of development, I agree. My personal opinion is that they should either stop talking about the 4/5 stage plan stuff, the phone is released now and development of next version is underway just like every other platform, or just released this as an Internet tablet with an optional beta-type downloadable "phone-functionality ugrade pack" or whatever if they're really this insecure about the N900 being a competitive phone. Then it would've been clear it's not a "fully commercial product", now it just sounds like excuses for not blowing the competition away and leads to these issues when people are disappointed that it's not better in all aspects than phone A, B or C.

But anyway, it's out there, sold as a phone, and full heads-on comparisons with other "smartphones" are fair game. To be clear - I don't think the N900 has anything to be ashamed of even in those comparisons, frankly, in my mind it's one of the top 2 or 3 devices phones available at the moment, but the fact is that it is sort of "unimpressive" in certain aspects compared to other top-end phones, and many "normal consumers" could care less whether they can drop down to a root shell or not (most would be afraid to do it anyway). I don't know about the home screen lag, really, but it looks sort of twitchy to me in the videos. Again, it's not a big deal to me, I'm just noting that "yes, I see some lag too in the videos". That is not the thing keeping me from getting the phone: the stage 4/5 talk is. As an owner of the N810, abandoned by Nokia too soon in my mind, it's painfully clear to me that Nokia will only fix a few of the worst bugs in this one before turning their full attention to the next version. "Fixed in Harmattan" whatever. No thanks, I'll wait.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

401 posts is enough really, so i'll keep this brief:

- love the display, that's what's going to keep me using this thing

- fantastic reception. I am coming off an e75 for this and the e75 in the two offices where i spend most of my working days would drop off and on the 3.5G link constantly. At both locations this thing just stays connected. This is a major plus for me.

- lack of apps for a while is going to be a problem. No Nimbuzz being the most painful

- the scrolling really is no good. It's better with the stylus though

- hated the 97. The case felt cheap - this one doesn't, feels like a quality brick

- dunno what all these issues with it working as phone are that people are talking about, works fine for me and has the features that i would normally use

- battery life is awful but given a choice of less power for a longer battery, i'd say no. With mains charger, car charger and USB, the times when i can't give it juice for more than 4 hours are going to be rare

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

why do you need Nimbuzz (except that there is currently no msn supported integrated like gtalk or skype)?

I love the integration of IM right into contacts, no separate app to do chat..

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I live in the UAE where the local carriers block Skype to an extent. Here, you can run Skype, do Skype-to-Skype calls, but if you try to use Skypeout you get cut off as soon as the other end picks up. Hence, you'll see users in places like UAE, Oman and other East and Middle East countries using Nimbuzz. Somehow, Nimbuzz makes it possible for Skypeout calls to connect successfully.


The alternative is to run a VPN and then use the integrated IM which I agree is very good. I am just starting to look at the best way of running a VPN so if anybody has any tips or can point me at relevant material I would appreciate it.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I'm sorry but I don't think that is acceptable at all. Everytime a new device is released you can't hide behind its short comings by saying another similar device had issues for 2 or 3 years. If you released your device 3 years later then you should have had time to study what was missing/wrong in the other device and fix them before releasing your device. Especially if that device has already fixed those issues. Otherwise your device is always going to be 2 or 3 years behind which obviously no company would ever want. This is not about iphone v N900 by the way. Just in general. technology moves forward very quickly and you can't just release something which has 3 year old problems that have now been solved elsewhere.

For example if you buy a blu ray player today you don't expect it to be missing features that blu ray players were all missing 3 years ago but are now standard today and say well give it two or three years since previous players did not have them until now. People would look elsewhere.

Back to the N900 and iphone now. I have seen on this site many times that N900 is not a phone, this device is for geeks, this is not Nokia's flagship device, or this is not intended to be a mainstream device. All these are used as excuses for us to excuse some of the N900s short comings. Does Nokia want to sell more or less of these devices? Obviously they want to sell more. Recent reports show that Apple is the most profitable in the phone busines despite selling far fewer phones than Nokia and being in the business for a second compared to Nokia.

Nokia is clearly a company set up to make as much profits as possible. They cannot be pleased that a company that has profits from elsewhere (itunes music downloads, sales of mp3 player, computers) and that is new to the phone business is making more profits than they are. The high end phones (let me say high end devices since N900 is not a phone) is clearly where the big profits are made. So Nokia wants to sell as many N900s as possible whether or not Nokia or the public say it is not a phone, not a mainstream device, the device is for geeks, etc. Unfortunately this just is not going to happen if it has flaws that are 3 years old.

By the way before someone gets the wrong impression I am not an Apple fan. I am a massive Nokia fan and in 10 years of owning a mobile I have only ever had Nokia mobiles. On the other hand no one in the world hates Apple more than I do. Broke the screen of my Creative Zen M and needed a new mp3 player. Bought an ipod touch 32gb because Microsoft smartly decided not to release Zune HD in Europe and Creative had lost their way in the mp3 business. But I couldn't live with myself having an ipod and had to sell it at huge loss after a few months. Now I have no mp3 player. Plus my baby son spoilt my N95 so now I have no phone (using my old N80 now). So I need a new mp3 player and also need a new phone.

So my rant is because I want Nokia to succeed because I love the company and I also want to have a great phone. Unfortunately, it seems that neither of these things are going to get to the level I was hoping for. We are likely to see reviews from the mainstream media which suggest even looks aside and ignoring limited apps the iphone is still the better choice simply because the N900 has three year old problems and this would surely hurt sales (which would surely hurt Nokia irrespective of whether people on this website do not want the device to go mainstream so that it can be their geek phone). I will also not be getting as great a phone as I would want because it lacks things I took for granted in my 50 year old N95.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

But you can not escape the fact that N900 was never meant to include many of the things that are missing compared to S60 or whatnot. Not at launch anyway. Maemo 5 was never meant to be a full-on consumer release in the Nokia roadmap.

You can ignore their intent if you so choose, or hide behind Nokia's vague PR, but that does not change the fact that from Maemo roadmap perspective the N900 has a particular function - and that is not to be the flagship smartphone.

One can argue this is a stupid move (or that dealerships and mainstream websites confuse the issue, even Nokia's own PR people), or that it is a smart move, but the intent of the N900 is very clear when you look at Nokia's plans for Maemo. It is not a secret what N900 would and would not be...

...and I am an Apple fan. And this wasn't a secret even for me. :)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Is Nokia late with Maemo?

Of course.

And N900 is just a mobile computer (good mobile computer!) with some phone functionality, to introduce Maemo to a wider range of developers in a nearer-the-consumer edition kind of way, because Nokia is late. N900 is a tool for people to get creative and crakin' on Maemo.

But Nokia being late does not change the fact that N900 was never meant to be a complete, flagship smartphone.

Blame Nokia for being late, but don't blame N900 for being something it was not meant to be.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Just because it's more than one person still doesn't mean it could be a defect issue. But your right, we'll have to see if OS updates fix these problems to identify if they are hardware issues or not.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

There are lots of people happy with N900. Don’t be afraid and buy one. It’s amazing.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I haven't got my device yet, but since the day I heard about it I can't stop thinking & searching about this device. Reading negatives posts of proud N900 owners, doesn't scare me at all, it's normal that a device of this category has a few problems in the beginning. It's usually like that anyway, the first batch of devices have a few technical problems but once the 2nd & 3rd wave come it's all solved. And I'm sure they'll bring out a stable firmware that fixes all these minor bugs.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Yesterday evening at DFW meetup had my first chance to try N900...

I'm very interested in how "smooth" the dispay works and tried to look into that. I did make some observations, that do backup the folks here that claim it being "not so smooth". However, this seem to depend on the application.

In general the screen refresh rate appear (to my eyes) relatively low, between 10-20fps in 2D applications (such as web browser, picture viewer...) and there definitely is no V-sync. This I can see (as well as Texrat was witnessing) as tearing when doing horizontal scrolling while viewing pictures.

Then, I tried some 3D games... and those looked beautiful! There was Bounce that played very smoothly and no sign of jerkiness or tearing. It appear that in 3D mode the screen refresh rate is much higher, and also the V-sync appear enabled.

Please, remember these are my personal observations. YMMV... :)

Will I get one? Don't know yet... I think I'll wait a bit to the prices go go down a bit. I'd also like to try the camera and camcorder in normal daylight to see if they are good enough taking shots and videos.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

/proc/component_version file

Use X Terminal and e.g. Midnight Commander to view it.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Hi,

to be honest with the browsing issues, there is lag and it is jerky on a lot of the youtube videos out there. The Iphone does have a better "smooth" scrolling experience as does the HTC HD2 (not used an n900 but based on countless video reviews).

However the checkerboard problem is something which is apparent in most mobile browsers apart form the iphone.

MB

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I don't think there's anything special about my unit. As I wrote, people having issues should check their hardware build ID, maybe it's different.

Secondly, it would be great if those having issues said anything about e.g. what software they have installed, especially if they use software from Extras-Devel.

At least two apps from Extras-Devel I tried had serious problems, including (apparently) a huge MEMORY LEAK that was leading to "Operation of the device suspended due to low memory condition". Uninstalling them brought the device back to fully stable state.

Lots of apps in Extras-Devel aren't properly opt-ified, either, and installing them may very quickly use up the WHOLE free space in rootfs. This also leads to performance degradation and other issues.

Software in Extras-Devel isn't of production quality and shouldn't be used by less advanced users. If they do it then it may be the reason of at least some of the issues they experience and blame the device for.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

You are aware that 95% of all these "video reviews" are based on pre-release software and for all we know, even hardware? I think this video explains it well..

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Catching up the half day I stopped reading this thread.

But what would be the other option? There are many, so picking one that is better than N900 should be easy?

I don't own the device, not sure if I can for a while so I really don't know that much about it. What I know is that crappy scrolling doesn't bother me that much. I expect the device, eye-candy etc to work good enough, but a jitter or occasional stall isn't a show stopper. Based on reviews on pre-production phones crappy scrolling and slow rss doesn't bother that many others either.

All in all its slightly scary that someone can be so pedantic about a phone. With all the crap sold nowadays, I would welcome you to be the head release manager on every electronics manufacturer, much less crappy products, less waste, less wasted natural resources - I think you could save the planet all by yourself.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Oh, I didn't know that, in fact I had the opposite impression that the difference is minimal and restricted to video support.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Well said. And in addition to kudos for being an early adopter, the far more powerful aspect of having a Maemo device is the chance to support a better model of computing.

(http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=326)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

@BatPenguin

Anyone who spent any time researching this phone would know its step four out of five, and frankly its price point makes it either A) for the enthusiast hacknerd/tweakaholic or B) Some rich douchenozzle who thinks hes getting a status device. (which he isnt, so haha) I live in the U.S. and im pretty well versed in the trials of the N900, people need to just relax, the phone aint broken. Its raw. WE will determine how much better it gets.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I am talking about the retail version based videos. and that video shows the same problem with scrolling and checker board within the browser.

I might add its not a problem which would bother me, I personally read content when looking at a website, dont play how quick can I scroll games lol.

However the user experience is not as smooth as an Iphone and I believe this is point that has been made by other posters.

I do understand comments on this "not being a phone" and only "step 4 out of 5",

However this is a product which is being sold by nokia, therefore it needs to work properly with the features it promises. It is nuts to suggest that nokia charges for a phone to use us as the test bed before the "proper one". It should be a usable product in its own right.

Cheers,

MB

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Hence my issues with this phone. The software is simply not there yet and they should do a much better job, especially when they expext 600 for it. What makes them think they can release a phone and not worry about the user experience at all? Take a look at the history page scroll in the browser. It doesn't do more than 2-3 fps max. I mean the same thing was butter smooth on the n95 with much worse hardware.

If you play bounce...that game is beautiful. It has much better graphics than anything else I've seen on a phone. So how come the OS has such a hard time scrolling a page\picture\you name it? This needs to be fixed yesterday. I am tired of owning nice nokia phones that are all crippled in one way or another.

Maemo is not an enthusiast OS anymore, it's Nokia's chance to play with the big boys. Sorry but Symbian has been dead for a while and I seriously doubt it will be going anywhere in the future. Use this phone or an iPhone for a month and then go back to a Symbian phone. You will feel like you're using a dumbphone, not a supposed smartphone.

So why all the nit-picking with the N900? Because this phone has the potential to be an iphone killer and I want to see it succeed. However, it will not happen if everyone is finding excuses left and right for a company that's been sleeping at the wheel for years now. They're finally starting to wake up...hopefully. As consumers we set the standards so stop being thankful for this phone and kissing maemo butt or you'll end up with a N920 in 5 months with more crappy software.

-written on my n900 at the supermarket :)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Regarding "the nitpicking", I would like to know your thoughts on this:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=394324&postcount=4
What is the best way to see Maemo succeed? (Maybe post reply over in that thread?)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Could not agree with this more. If we want Nokia to succeed we need to stop with all the excuses. If we want Nokia to provide us with quality devices then we need to stop with all the excuses. If Nokia had been staying ahead of the pack then we could maybe continue to make excuses for the company. But these are not the days of the N95. Things have moved on alot since then and Nokia has not really done so. And after the shocker that was the N97 the company has run out of excuses.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I can appreciate Megacrazy's point of view. We need to push Nokia to do even better. That is true.

But often it is good to understand both sides of an equation. It is good to know where and why N900 is coming from.

Now we can start pushing them for improvements, though. This potential needs to be used to the max!

But gotta say, just love the phone... browser is really nice... Bounce has such nice graphics.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

There is another way. Focusing only on Nokia bashing doesn't make Maemo stronger. Building the community makes things better.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

the whole purpose of the title was to bash it..

ask megacrazy why he disabled the "comments" possibility on his youtube video...its far too obvious what is going on here.

the n900 definitely has some issues and thats why i will wait till the beginning of next year till a new wave is dispatched with firmware issues fixed.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I would just like to remind everyone that 99% of all phones are rubbish in most respects. Possibly 100%, but I'll give the benefit of doubt :)

Ever bought or played with a phone where everything works just right?

Or even one where you didn't find annoying design flaws in the first day of using it?

Or even one that has never crashed on you while using it?

Personally I've never found a phone that doesn't have all of the above faults.

N900 buyers are likely to have high expectations. It's expensive, it's shiny, it's marketed (if you call obscure viral marketing with no posters in any phone shops marketing :)) as a super all round device that makes you go Wow! Certainly the videos have lots of people saying wow a lot and how cool and new it is.

Yes, Joe Public will find aspects of the phone disappointing or annoying, and sometimes dealbreakers, but don't forget they will be comparing with other phones they have used before, and other phones which are in the market now that they try out.

None of the current crop of expensive smartphones are all that brilliant really. They all have annoying and disappointing issues.

So look at the whole package, and decide which set of highs and lows you can live with.

When choosing a phone I always recommend imagining how you'll feel after a month with each device, when the annoyances and disappointments don't both you so much, and you've seen more of how the device helps you do what you want, and perhaps do some new things. The first few weeks are always a different experience, where every little annoyance stands out a mile, and the potential hasn't been discovered. Try to imagine how you'll feel when you're used to getting the best out of it, working around the foibles, and - in the case of Maemo and it's direct competitors - installing alternative apps.

Which device actually lets you get done what you want to do? Which will you enjoy using, when you're had a month to get used to, and gotten over the disappointments because it's only a computer-phone, not your fantasy device.

All phones suck. Don't believe any hype :)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I agree with that.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

every "smartphone" sucks in 1 or more fields of its performance.
the question is: which one sucks less than all the others? :D

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Exactly that. It's an equation and both sides are important.

Criticise, pick holes, find room for improvement, write about the negatives.

But also work with people who are able to make those improvements. Build the community, be part of the community, help make it a better device.

When something that used to suck is made better, perhaps helped on by criticisms, hole-picking and public writings - make a point of writing about those improvements. Make a point of writing when something used to suck - especially something you publically criticised - and how it was made better.

Not now, not yet, because it's just been released.

Just make a note to remember what you didn't like now, and check back on those things in a few months - make a note to write about changes. Drive the developers - inside Nokia and outside - in the right direction with your criticisms, but don't forget praise in the right doses too. It works wonders. Complete the equation. Be happy. Make the world a better place :)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Btw is there any way to change the title of this thread by merging it with another? :rolleyes:

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

nokia n82 it was fantastic.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

HI,

This is a bit of a odd statement, All the phone I have owned within the last 4 years I have been happy with. Yes all phones have issues as does all software and hardware.

this does not make them rubbish. But if the features which are billed as the reason for buying the device do not work properly this is a major problem. And it should not be released if it does not work.as promised..


MB

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Turns out my HW ID is the same

product RX-51
hw-build 2101
nolo 1.4.13
boot-mode normal

I'll just put it down to a flaky firmware then I guess.
Hope the next firmware improves it somewhat.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

How about a new one, with problems faced and shortcomings being metioned. No rants obviously or the whole purpose will be lost.

What would be even better is if all the common problems/shortcomings be moved to the first post with their respective bugzilla entries for more visibility, so that more people can actually report it on a formal level.

And as for nokia I really hope they take the time and effort to actually do something about it, rather than their standard "will be solved in Harmattan". Its no longer feasible to stick to the old mantra expecting people to buy shiny new hardware every year.

I don't care if they do it in Fremantle or even if they eventually offer a paid upgrade to harmattan(to eventually add features to the N900) like Apple does for the ipod touch. But they do need to impove their product support.

After all the markets have changed and so have people's perceptions about product support.

Peace :)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tyk2_hMNaQ

;)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

If you have to read the manual to learn how to create a playlist, it's definitely a UI fail.

The no searching email is a bummer for me to hear about, unless that's just another UI fail. I'd be using an exchange server with ActiveSync and I use Search Server on WinMo quite often...

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I've used 4 Nokias and one Sony-Ericsson.

All of them were pretty good.

But all of them crashed sometimes when making calls :)

But the main thing is, all of them sucked one way or another, even though overall they were quite good.

That was my point: There are are high points and low points; yes, even in advertised features.

Maybe there are phones who advertised features really all did live up to expectations. But I've never used one.