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-   -   Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44546)

range 2010-02-16 10:33
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 528007)
apt would be replaced by yum.
Why? apt can run against modern rpm repositories. Again: Please get some clue before ranting, it might make you look smarter.

GotGlint 2010-02-16 10:34
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
some clarity nokia, please.

The N900 has been out a month where i live and how can i recomend it now?

even apple wait longer before kicking the users in the back.

Not everyone who bought the N900 is a linux head. we dont all know the difference between types of hats and enemies from zelda.

What we did know is that this was the first great device from nokia in quite a while, with real massmarket possibilities (yes thats a good thing)

No one expects phones to last forever but c'mon ommonious annoucements already.
(nothing they've said reads like meego/maemo6 will be on n900)
Most users are on the start of contracts....long ones

Clarity is needed and its the least people deserve.

range 2010-02-16 10:37
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v13 (Post 528058)
I also believe that that decision was correct. But having a mobile (base) distribution seems to be well in Redhat's interests. It's a case where they can sell support to world's biggest companies by just doing what they are currently doing. There is no end-user interaction in mobile OS market, nor such a diversity and good-support is heavily needed. Redhat can support both base system and kernel/hardware and is sure the best (and perhaps the only) company that can do that.
Is it so hard to understand, that using RPM as the package format has *NOTHING* to do with Red Hat at all?

Red Hat is not engaged into MeeGo - they are just using the RPM, as do SuSE, Mandriva and a whole slew of other distributions. But that does NOT mean that Red Hat is involved in *ANY* of them.

attila77 2010-02-16 10:42
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by range (Post 529177)
Is it so hard to understand, that using RPM as the package format has *NOTHING* to do with Red Hat at all?

Red Hat is not engaged into MeeGo - they are just using the RPM, as do SuSE, Mandriva and a whole slew of other distributions. But that does NOT mean that Red Hat is involved in *ANY* of them.
RedHat *IS* one of the active developers of RPM so it's not 'just using'. Their influence on it is sometimes overblown, but saying they have nothing to do with it is even more wrong.

zehjotkah 2010-02-16 10:51
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin (Post 528984)
This morning I had a discussion with my dog about peeing quicker than he wanted to do.

See. That was as valuable as your post above.
where is the problem with a conversation, which convinced me, that it's a good thing happening at the moment?
you don't have to share my opinion, you don't have discuss with my cat, so where is your problem?

trbs 2010-02-16 11:03
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by range (Post 529177)
Is it so hard to understand, that using RPM as the package format has *NOTHING* to do with Red Hat at all?

Red Hat is not engaged into MeeGo - they are just using the RPM, as do SuSE, Mandriva and a whole slew of other distributions. But that does NOT mean that Red Hat is involved in *ANY* of them.
Eugh it's called the Redhat Package Manager for crying out loud.

I understand what your trying to say, but wording could be better. RPM obviously has _something_ to do with Redhat. Though any distribution build with RPM can be complete different from the distribution RedHat.

And since Moblin is Fedora there will be some relationship to eachother. Centos != Redhat but it's obvious they have some relationship to eachother. Ubuntu != Debian, but it's obvious they
have a relationship.

Now to semi-quote GeneralAntilles, Maemo went so far from there Debian roots that it actually became a strain on Maemo. So a better and tighter relationship to the upstream distribution will be a good thing.

On other note; if Meego will be truly Open source and in the spirit of Open source, it should be a lot easier to create a Debian derivative of it, then it was in the past to create 'forks' of Maemo.

Verythrax 2010-02-16 11:13
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Now the quest for a mascot become much easier. Someone design a cute version of HP Lovecraft's Mi-Go, quick! :)

Seriously, I would love that :cool:

range 2010-02-16 11:13
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 529188)
RedHat *IS* one of the active developers of RPM so it's not 'just using'. Their influence on it is sometimes overblown, but saying they have nothing to do with it is even more wrong.
Red Hat his not involved in PCLinuxOS, SuSE or Mandriva. Yet all these Distributions use RPM.

kopte3 2010-02-16 11:30
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Just asked them a question:
Quote:
@kopte3 Q: what will happen to maemo community? only name changing? do you intend to close the maemo.org? tnx #NokiaMWC
answer:
Quote:
@kopte3 A: We invite the Maemo and Moblin community to join forces in the MeeGo community #NokiaMWC
Well.. A political answer.. :) but now we know we're not getting a precise one for now..

attila77 2010-02-16 11:40
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by range (Post 529252)
Red Hat his not involved in PCLinuxOS, SuSE or Mandriva. Yet all these Distributions use RPM.
What I'm saying is that, for example, the maintainer of RPM is a fulltime RedHat employee. How much that influences other distros, I wouldn't know but it certainly does not fall in the 'has nothing to do with it' category.

To finish this OT part, for me, the non-technical problem with RPM was that it nearly drowned itself around 2005-2006 when the original RPM maintainer left RedHat and essentially forked RPM (or, RedHat and some others have forked, depending on where you stand). At that point, things looked fairly grim for RPM, but mid-2007 Redhat et al gathered some political courage and 'took back' RPM, re-started development. RPM 4.6 released in 2009 (and it's followups 4.7, 4.8) are a serious departure from the hacked-to-death 4.4 series in many ways (boasting better ARM support, LZMA, new bindings, much faster dependency/lookup operations, etc).

Have we beaten this RPM/DEB horse to the death now ?

A bit more detail on the RPM fork story for those interested: http://lwn.net/Articles/196523/

Gadgety 2010-02-16 12:21
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
This is the complete Q&A from todays 12:00-12:15 Twitter chat regarding Maemo and MeeGo. They answered about half the questions:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...371#post529371

agogo 2010-02-16 12:44
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Here you go!
LG GW990 Will Become an Intel MeeGo Phone

Peet 2010-02-16 12:44
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldKo (Post 528703)
... I can't recall any posts describing what Moblin itself brings to the party.
...
(That is, how is it better apart from adding x86 support?)
A very peculiar side effect that I alluded to in my opening statement is that the Intel/Moblin team is expected to manage the core/kernel development and support of the potentially largest(-shipping) platform of ARM-based mobile devices! :eek:

While Nokia's (ex-Maemo) UI+Tools team has no motive for sabotaging usability on non-Nokia devices, Intel OTOH has a glaringly obvious motive in sabotaging Meego's core ARM-support in various ways, including ignoring or late inclusion of ARM-platform patches or favouring x86 in low-level architectural decisions...

rm42 2010-02-16 13:27
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peet (Post 529421)
A very peculiar side effect that I alluded to in my opening statement is that the Intel/Moblin team is expected to manage the core/kernel development and support of the potentially largest(-shipping) platform of ARM-based mobile devices! :eek:

While Nokia's (ex-Maemo) UI+Tools team has no motive for sabotaging usability on non-Nokia devices, Intel OTOH has a glaringly obvious motive in sabotaging Meego's core ARM-support in various ways, including ignoring or late inclusion of ARM-platform patches or favouring x86 in low-level architectural decisions...
That is why it is a good thing that MeeGo is Free Software. They can't hide their changes from other interested parties.

Tintin 2010-02-16 13:49
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 529210)
where is the problem with a conversation, which convinced me, that it's a good thing happening at the moment?
you don't have to share my opinion, you don't have discuss with my cat, so where is your problem?
Saying "you had a conversation" without any details at all...is as valuable as me talking to my dog.

zehjotkah 2010-02-16 13:56
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin (Post 529545)
Saying "you had a conversation" without any details at all...is as valuable as me talking to my dog.
maybe I WAS talking with your dog^^
but that doesn't matter, I never said with whom I had this conversation. Also I never gave any relevant details of meego or the maemo future. So?

The point of my post was to state, that after knowing more facts about meego, I'm more confident, that this is a good thing for the maemo community.

leke 2010-02-16 14:00
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 527134)
Yes, they said that Meego will support multiple hardware platforms and that just simply has to include ARM considering that they basicly listed every possible kind of mobile device from phones to in vehicle devices.


EDIT:
From Ari Jaaksi's blog:


It’ll run on X86 and on Arm based hardware.
Am I right in thinking, if it's open source, it can be ported to any hardware? I'm thinking even those processors coming out of China used in the phone clones.

Peet 2010-02-16 14:06
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm42 (Post 529510)
That is why it is a good thing that MeeGo is Free Software. They can't hide their changes from other interested parties.
Sure, there could always be an alternative or community-based "MerGo" distribution or few, but the Intel/Moblin team is still in charge of the official, supported MeeGo platform.

Just yesterday I came across a new-fangled edition of Android which was released by some enterprising pseudonym-using russian hacker. Some XDA-based hackers/crackers (no disrespect intended) will load it no questions asked, as will a few unwashed newbies, but personally I'd be very wary/aware of potential foul play.

Same uncertainty principle will apply to most unsupervised variations on the MeeGo theme, meaning that the Intel/Moblin team — as managers of the platform core — will still wield major control on the ARM side support and development of MeeGo.

Tintin 2010-02-16 14:17
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 529563)
maybe I WAS talking with your dog^^
but that doesn't matter, I never said with whom I had this conversation. Also I never gave any relevant details of meego or the maemo future. So?

The point of my post was to state, that after knowing more facts about meego, I'm more confident, that this is a good thing for the maemo community.
I don't think you understand. So no need to carry on.

Bratag 2010-02-16 14:20
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peet (Post 529582)
Sure, there could always be an alternative or community-based "MerGo" distribution or few, but the Intel/Moblin team is still in charge of the official, supported MeeGo platform.

Just yesterday I came across a new-fangled edition of Android which was released by some enterprising pseudonym-using russian hacker. Some XDA-based hackers/crackers (no disrespect intended) will load it no questions asked, as will a few unwashed newbies, but personally I'd be very wary/aware of potential foul play.

Same uncertainty principle will apply to most unsupervised variations on the MeeGo theme, meaning that the Intel/Moblin team — as managers of the platform core — will still wield major control on the ARM side support and development of MeeGo.
Really? And did they release the source with it? No? Then its not really ... and here is the important phrase ... OPEN SOURCE. See the word SOURCE there combined with the word OPEN. Comparing someones bundled up android release (Which I should point out, is partially open source) to a true Open Source Linux is like comparing apples to porcupines.

rm42 2010-02-16 14:21
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peet (Post 529582)
Sure, there could always be an alternative or community-based "MerGo" distribution or few, but the Intel/Moblin team is still in charge of the official, supported MeeGo platform.

Just yesterday I came across a new-fangled edition of Android which was released by some enterprising pseudonym-using russian hacker. Some XDA-based hackers/crackers (no disrespect intended) will load it no questions asked, as will a few unwashed newbies, but personally I'd be very wary/aware of potential foul play.

Same uncertainty principle will apply to most unsupervised variations on the MeeGo theme, meaning that the Intel/Moblin team — as managers of the platform core — will still wield major control on the ARM side support and development of MeeGo.
There are going to be a lot more eyes on this than those of a lone Russian hacker.

http://www.arm.com/community/partners/all_partners.php

REMFwhoopitydo 2010-02-16 14:30
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm42 (Post 527889)
I think it is a great move. The one advantage Android had over Maemo was that it could be licensed by other manufacturers while Maemo was exclusive to Nokia. That advantage is gone. That should bring in more third party interest, both from software and hardware developers. I expect my N900 to last me about three years. I foresee it running Maemo for the first 1.5 to 2 years. I will probably switch to MeeGo for the third. Then I will probably want to get a new device with more hardware resources. :)
that was more or less my point about ten pages back, it seems to have escaped the notice of just about everyone else. :)

Gadgety 2010-02-16 16:02
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Nokia MWC Tweet Q&A updated with 14:30-14:45 session

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529804&postcount=2

vintc 2010-02-16 16:55
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
I have easy question...here is a lot of about maemo, intel, meego etc. but..nobody told me one thing...what this all means for me, for owner N900??? No more applications or updates? Maybe less care for owners N900? I don´t panic :)

Rob1n 2010-02-16 17:03
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintc (Post 529944)
I have easy question...here is a lot of about maemo, intel, meego etc. but..nobody told me one thing...what this all means for me, for owner N900??? No more applications or updates? Maybe less care for owners N900? I don´t panic :)
There's absolutely no impact on the end users. Instead of panicking over whether Maemo 6 will come to the N900, or whether support for Maemo 5 will be dropped when Maemo 6 is released, we can panic about whether MeeGo will come to the N900....

In either case, the important thing is that both Maemo 5 and MeeGo will be using the Qt4.6 framework for most new applications. This should make it easier to write applications to run on both platforms, so even if Maemo 5 support is dropped, we should still be able to run a lot of the MeeGo applications.

Kajko 2010-02-16 17:13
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintc (Post 529944)
I have easy question...here is a lot of about maemo, intel, meego etc. but..nobody told me one thing...what this all means for me, for owner N900??? No more applications or updates? Maybe less care for owners N900? I don´t panic :)
EXACTLY !

So many threads, tweets, blogs, etc., all saying different things.

fpp 2010-02-16 17:25
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by twaelti (Post 528942)
I also sincerely believe that the "community" is overestimating itself heavily.
Tom, I agree with most/all of your post, but just quoting this one sentence.

Your stance sounds more like the Intel/Moblin way of seeing things. Nokia was the one to emphasise the importance of having a community of users, not only the technical ones. Right or wrong, they put their money where their mouth was, and were quite successful at it. So it's only normal that those users, part of the community, expect Nokia to bring that asset to the MeeGo merger (along with Qt and the Harmattan UI), as Intel is expected to contribute the platform stuff.

RevdKathy 2010-02-16 17:29
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpp (Post 530023)
Your stance sounds more like the Intel/Moblin way of seeing things. Nokia was the one to emphasise the importance of having a community of users, not only the technical ones. Right or wrong, they put their money where their mouth was, and were quite successful at it. So it's only normal that those users, part of the community, expect Nokia to bring that asset to the MeeGo merger (along with Qt and the Harmattan UI), as Intel is expected to contribute the platform stuff.
QFT. If Nokia planned to ditch us they should never have encouraged us on board in the first place. Since they did, they at least owe us the courtesy of telling us end-users what our place will be (if any) in this brave new world.

Slick 2010-02-16 17:36
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
I was wondering why samsung decided to make bada, now I know hy. Nokia really is confused about what consumers need/want, and it'll only be a matter of time before the competition steps it up and targets nokia's marketshare.

ewan 2010-02-16 17:36
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 529302)
What I'm saying is that, for example, the maintainer of RPM is a fulltime RedHat employee.
Of course, so is the maintainer of glibc. There's really nothing scarier about RPM coming from a non-Nokia upstream than there is about any other part of the OS coming from non-Nokia upstreams.

Brank 2010-02-16 17:36
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
This doesn't really belong here, but I found it so funny so:

http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u13/qt16.png

QT example tutorial thingy from meego homepage, they couldn't be bothered to at least show all the code :P Line 17&18

ewan 2010-02-16 17:41
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 530030)
QFT. If Nokia planned to ditch us they should never have encouraged us on board in the first place. Since they did, they at least owe us the courtesy of telling us end-users what our place will be (if any) in this brave new world.
I think there's an extent to which the users place will be what they make it, and that some of this stuff simply hasn't been decided yet. So far in these threads there have been complaints that everything's been stitched up without any community involvement, and also that there's uncertainty because there are things that haven't been decided between Intel and Nokia.

It's going to be a bumpy ride for a while, but there's absolutely no reason thiscommunity can't carry on, even if Nokia and Intel choose not to engage much. It's not as if Nokia have been exactly supportive and communicative up to now anyway.

Tintin 2010-02-16 17:45
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 530030)
QFT. If Nokia planned to ditch us they should never have encouraged us on board in the first place. Since they did, they at least owe us the courtesy of telling us end-users what our place will be (if any) in this brave new world.
If you think about it nothing much may have to change for you.
Either continue in this forum - or another one - and talk about bears and what-not. Your 'place' doesn't really need to change at all.

RevdKathy 2010-02-16 17:59
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin (Post 530070)
If you think about it nothing much may have to change for you.
Either continue in this forum - or another one - and talk about bears and what-not. Your 'place' doesn't really need to change at all.
Believe it or not, not all of my 1800 or so posts have been about bears. I've tried to be a contributing member of this community in various ways, from ideas and encouragement to blogging and wiki-editing. Whether or not I've succeeded is a matter of opinion! But Nokia recognised this, and actually sponsored me to attend one of their meet-ups in December.

Sure I can join any community and just chat. That's easy. But the things I joined this community for are ones I can only find here: the interface between developers and users which can be productive on both sides, the place for supporting people who are having difficulties with devices or software, the sense of being part of something bigger and more worthwhile than just 'internet chat'.

If the end result of MeeGo is that end-users are sent somewhere else, I think that will be a loss. Devs will lose the ideas, feedback and testing that end-users can supply. New users will lose a body of people who have time and energy to support and offer advice not from a position of being a dev (and knowing all the complicated jargon) but from being a slightly-more-experienced end user. And users will lose contact with the very people who are creating the apps and software, and with that the sense of shared investment which this community has provided.

So yes, I think I do need to make sure there's a place for 'the average bear' in MeeGo.

Texrat 2010-02-16 18:02
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Don't mind Tintin, Kathy... if he ever said anything positive about anyone or anything I'd suffer shock.

jackie_jagger 2010-02-16 18:04
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
LG GW990 will be the first MeeGo powered device this year !! I wonder if we too will get that update !!

Tintin 2010-02-16 18:14
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 530117)
Don't mind Tintin, Kathy... if he ever said anything positive about anyone or anything I'd suffer shock.
Texrat has a pretty avatar.

And I bet he is hung like a horse.

iamNarada 2010-02-16 18:16
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_jagger (Post 530129)
LG GW990 will be the first MeeGo powered device this year !! I wonder if we too will get that update !!
Hmmm, yes, I wonder what the battery life is going to be. It's supposed to have a Atom Pineview 45nm, I'm assuming it's single core, but even so, I'm guessing it's going to guzzle quite a bit more than an Arm A9 based processor.

eikido 2010-02-16 18:47
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Will QT apps run on Android if a library or something is installed? I don't think i need to mention closedPhone (maybe if you jailbreak it or something...).

fatalsaint 2010-02-16 18:54
Re: Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by range (Post 529170)
Why? apt can run against modern rpm repositories. Again: Please get some clue before ranting, it might make you look smarter.
Wow.. seriously?

A single line - commenting that chances are that the new system based on rpm will probably use the more common rpm update system over apt... is now a rant to you?

Awesome.


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