Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Could this indicate that Nokia is actually going down? Being split up? Nokian will invest in some part of the old Nokia. Or some dude at Nordea has seen Nokian stock going up and at the next line Nokia stock going down, and thought go for Nokian ?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Will be very intressting to see what happens when nokia announce and release its first series of win mobiles. I don't expect that is enough to give nocka value an extra push. The really must present good figures to hit a race. I don't see how the can can do in less than a year. until then the stock value will keep falling.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Any of those except the one about Nokia investing into old parts of Nokia.

Nordea analyst seeing NT as a good alternative to NOK is most likely just a funny coincidence. That's why I posted about it.


And here is why its a good alternative.
http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/3063...c9b25884b8.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokian Renkaat(Nokia Tyres) has had nothing to do with Nokia for long time.
Like Rauha already posted above Nokia Tyres has been one of the best performing companies in OMXH for the past 10 months. They have been going aggressively for new markets and their cash situation is very good.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes, soon they can afford to buy Nokia. Then they will ship the Nokia House HQ back to the town of Nokia and start making tyres that will autopilot cars with Ovi Maps. Elop will be relegated into new role as managing Windows Servers and making tutorial courses for Office 2010.

http://typestack.com/wp-content/uplo...go-300x225.gif

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Here is an article about blogger influence on Nokia share price and Eldar's not so positive opinion about Nokia's WP7 phone.



Bloggers increasingly influence Nokia's share price

Nokia’s share price is increasingly affected by bloggers writing about the company’s new products. The company has been particularly exasperated by one well-known Russian blogger, whose criticisms have spread around the world. Nokia has now requested that the Russian authorities investigate the man. YLE met him in Moscow.

The internationally renowned Russian telecommunications analyst and blogger Eldar Murtazin has often published information about Nokia products and services ahead of their official launch. Nokia has made its displeasure clear.

”The company’s representatives have officially notified me that I am now enemy number one,” Murtazin told YLE.

Murtaz claims that leaks of confidential information have only increased.

”Nokia’s new leadership is trying to change the company’s former corporate culture, and make it more American. This has provoked opposition. The employees’ former loyalty to the company has disappeared since Stephen Elop became CEO. The leaks stem from that. People no longer believe in what they are doing, and they do not want to do what they are told.”

'Betting on a dead horse'

Murtazin is familiar with Nokia’s Windows Phone handset prototypes, which he says don’t look to be different to Windows Phone 7 models on offer from competitors.

”It’s the same inside, it’s the same speed, the display is the same. There aren’t any differences. In practice we are getting exactly the same device.”

He is surprised that Nokia is now relying solely on Microsoft.

”It is limiting. Nokia discontinued the Symbian and Meego operating systems and is clinging to an outside system with a smaller market share. It is betting on a dead horse.”

Nokia: ‘rumours and speculation’

According to Murtazin, Nokia did not get any special treatment from Microsoft despite rumours of the partnership spreading since last February.

”We already know that in practice Nokia didn’t get anything at all. There is no chance of changing the display, they cannot add their own unique services. In practice Nokia’s Windows 7 phone is just Nokia’s own design. And that’s it.”

Murtaz believes Stephen Elop is leading Nokia towards a clear goal.

”He will create the conditions under which Nokia will no longer have any other option but to sell a part of the company to Microsoft.”

Nokia did not want to comment on Murtazin’s statements on Monday, claiming the comments are simply speculation and rumours. According to Nokia, Murtazin has a vivid imagination. Nokia also says that Murtazin is said to work as a consultant for competing mobile manufacturers, so cannot be said to be an independent, impartial analyst.


http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/...e_2731668.html - Translation source
http://areena.yle.fi/video/1311011822104 - Interview video in Finnish and Russian.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

what is microsoft waiting for?

negotiations with EU?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

nokia sold 88,5 million phones Q2(16,7 smartphones). That is great for all other vendors. Just not for nokia.

Apple paid nokia about 430 million Euro which was pretty much the same amount as nokia lost during Q2...492 million euro

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Microsoft saved Apple's butt once with a 150 million USD cash injection. Apple saved Nokia butt this time with a 430 million Euro cash payment.

Funny how the people that seemingly the fans hate the most end up being the ones that help them out - be patents or just to keep the competition around. They saved Nokia's bottom line this quarter. Don't expect it in the next.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I love that the market don't really care about 500 million Euro loss :D stock value went up a notch.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's not that the market doesn't care. They just speculated even worse result and that was future loaded in yesterdays market price.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Ballmer: Let's talk Nokia stock!

http://tecno.elespectador.com/wp-con...-microsoft.jpg

Funny how the current Market acts. But it was predictible, somewhat.
The only reason why I want Nokia and WP7 to succeed is that this would improve the chance that they will make another proper phone/tablet in the future, but I won't bet on that though.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

if meego was a success maybe too.

if u take... wp7 out of the picture..

the "good" news is wp7 looks like another KIN, ZUNE.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Touched 5.42 little over a week ago, had a rise up to ca. 6.22(?) before the weekend, is now falling again, at around 5.7x.

I hope WP7 is another KIN. If Microsoft is to be a smartphone player, I hope it's based on an adapted full OS like Maemo (Windows 8 ME / ix86 compatible), not Zune firmware adapted for phones.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Elop: 'Nokia stock is going down.'

Ballmer: <Italian mafia voice> 'Forget about it. It'll be cheaper for us to buy you.'

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Not looking good.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

5.34. And the NYSE is going to go down, down, too. Not looking good indeed.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I predicted 4.05 a few pages back. Starting to look like that will be the case very soon.

That August 17th announcement/get together seems to be damage control.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

New Nokia logo?
http://pinresgrp.com/images/wht-img-2.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

What will they announce on 17th?? Nothing in my opinion.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Here's a clip from article about long term investing. Part of it uses Nokia as an example. Quite good description of Elopcalypse.


We were already thinking of throwing in the towel on Nokia, but then it announced a partnership with Intel to develop a brand-new, Linux-based operating system, MeeGo. It made perfect sense; MeeGo would not be burdened by the code that had been written for dumb phones. We decided to wait and see.

The old CEO was fired, and Stephen Elop, a Microsoft executive, was brought in as CEO. It seemed that things were getting brighter. However, knowing what I know now, I truly believe that Mr. Elop was the worst thing that ever happened to Nokia and one of the best things that had happened to Microsoft for a long time. Elop announced that Nokia would abandon both Symbian and MeeGo and start making cell phones to run exclusively under the Microsoft Windows OS. With this move, Nokia went from being an Apple-like business that could differentiate itself from competitors because it controlled software and hardware and commanding low-teen profit margins (Apple’s margins are actually pushing the low 20s now), to a Dell-like company with net margins of 5% in a good year.

Though the Windows decision may have benefited Nokia in the short run, in the long run it reminded me what IBM did with Microsoft in the ’80s: it saw little value in the software and went after the hardware business. Cell-phone hardware will become ubiquitous in a few years and Nokia will be competing on price and manufacturing efficiency with its rivals. Microsoft on the other hand will get Windows installed on a huge number of phones, and it will benefit from Nokia’s enormous distribution system. And it only cost Microsoft a billion or two. When this announcement was made the market rightfully punished Nokia stock, and we got out at around $8.

Mr. Elop’s actions have the smell of being a double-agent for Microsoft. He said that neither Symbian nor MeeGo were ready for primetime; by the time they’d be ready the party would be over, and it would be too late for Nokia to have a relevant product. When I heard that I thought, well, he must be right; after all, he is the CEO; he gets to see Symbian and MeeGo firsthand. However, a few weeks ago Nokia came out with the N9, its newest MeeGo phone. What is shocking is that it is an incredible, iPhone-worthy phone. After seeing this phone, Elop’s decision to kill MeeGo-based phones makes no sense.

I try to learn as much as I can from my mistakes, so they don’t go to waste. In this case, I let our success with Nokia the first time around cloud my judgment.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/pyrrh...#ixzz1Tx2rAvRl

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

Sometimes it's interesting to go back to the first couple of pages of a long-lived thread like this one to sort of... "time travel" and see what sort of things were being said. Why... I remember when I said...

...a little over a year later and there's a PLETHORA of 7-inch to 10-inch Android tablets all over the place, most of them wifi-only. There's even a couple of Apple tablets and an iPod Touch that more closely resembles a pocket-sized tablet (if you can call Nokia Internet Tablets tablets...) among the devices Maemo COULD have had a few years head-start on. It's positively exploded, really. Tsk. :) ...and now there's even these pay-as-you-go or subscription mifi's and other ways to get on the Internet in addition to the readily available wifi I'd mentioned before.

I'm not even sure I can say anything more about this. It sure has been one heck of a year for Nokia.

I'll give him credit... he wasn't wrong. One year later, it's still the same:

"Despite Nokia’s decline and Android’s growth, Nokia still leads in emerging market such as Brazil, Russia, India, and China."

Source: http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/08...re-in-q2-2011/

On the other hand, he guessed that maybe it might not even be necessary to break into a large market like the USA. Now who's blind?

Analytics firm Canalys is reporting that global smartphone market share for Google’s Android OS platform is at a colossal 48%, with an overall lead in 35 out of the 56 countries tracked by Canalys. According to the report, the total global smartphone market has grown by 73% year-on-year with a total of 107.7 million devices shipped in Q2 2011. Android-based devices are the main culprit behind this astounding growth with an increase in shipments of 379% from over a year ago totalling 51.9 million units shipped in Q2 2011. Android sales in the Asia-Pacific region are particularly impressive, especially in South Korea and Taiwan where Android holds 85% and 71% market share, respectively.

In contrast, Apple shipped 20.3 million iPhones and has a market share of 19%, overtaking Nokia’s Symbian platform to take second place in the race for global smartphone supremacy. Apple has also become the world’s largest smartphone manufacturer, racing ahead of Nokia, who has held this title for many years.

What would it take for Nokia to turn things around? Would they even have the humility and interest to listen to people even if they offered good ideas? Maybe this has already happened and they ignored it?

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

I don't think they can really do anything, at least on the short term. They are effectively locked in the Windows strategy. Switching horses again would shed the last drops of any credibility in Nokia’s strategy. Ovi + Qt platform is already being realigned to cheapo S40 phones. Trying to tell everyone to come back to Meego and stop making apps and services for Indian farmers wouldn’t really work anymore. Boy called Nokia already cried wolf too many times.

About the Anssi article you linked. I read the original long article in Finnish newspaper. Anssi is still cooler than a block of ice. He won’t be any help. Reading between lines, he seems to be totally disgusted about Ollila’s decision to choose Elop over him and what Elop has done to Nokia. He has turned down all jobs offers and concentrates on playing with his iPad and making big investments into Nordic high-tech startups.

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

I feel like Anssi is a good man, who could have done incredibly good things. I genuinely wish him a far less stressful and pleasant life doing what pleases him--as I'm sure he's smart enough to already do. :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

Really, just S40? Source for this info?

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

Qt on S40 has been what Nokia made big fuss about couple of weeks ago.

What else are they going to use Qt on? Microsoft doesn't allow Qt on it's own platform WP7. Meego is essentially dead to Nokia and Symbian is being phased out. Which commercial developer would risk investing anything on Qt besides for S40?

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

was announce on june same day as n9, QT apps will live on s40.

there is also rumors 1ghz 512mb ram s40 touch phone with meego UX.

though there also rumors s40 may get axed. :/

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

I don't give a rats *** what is the core OS if the UI/UX is the same as in N9 and it works. S40, S60 or "some" linux kernel based os, all fine with me. I really don't care for the OS name. What matters to me and I think for most consumers is the user experience and not the name of the OS.

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

But if there won't be anything besides S40 products around, then you might want to check that rats *** again. OS matters, if it's the only OS using Qt. Again, from commercial development side. I'm sure there will lots of nice small niche open source stuff for 'whatever' Qt.

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

So you will not buy a phone based on S40 even if it's the same ux on top as N9, just because it's based on "S40"??????

Latest S40 are going to be far from S40 phones with qt implemented. It will be a whole new ball game my friend.

Re: Lets talk Nokia stock!
 

S40 will is lower end of Nokia products. Low prices, cheap hardware. it will be bought by people who buy cheap phones and have financial resources and needs for such phone. And yes, I know the rumoured specs for supposed S40 phones. By that time high end models have moved on and will be much more powerful that they are today.

I don't see any of the big players making Maemo 5 versions of their S^3 software despite Qt already making it possible. That requires more than just source code being compatible. There’s also support, updates, etc.

S40 users won’t be keeping alive ecosystem for high-end aimed stuff. That’s if S40 can even keep up with Android. It’s looking pretty bad right now. Nokia’s dumbphone sales went down 20% last quarter.


No, its the same ballgame as ever. Just with new UX.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

S40 is low end?! And what's the low featured WP7 for?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The low featured WP7 is Nokia's high end smartphone OS. D'oh.

You'll know once you see the price tags.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That picture just... it just feels RIGHT and makes me shake my head every time... but I chuckle EVERY time, too, imagining that this is how Elop does his meetings.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Considering the regressive mood the world is in these days, I wonder if returning to Symbian would be the most enlightened thing for Nokia to do, encouraging people to return to a past that at least worked.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

well danramos quoted me upthread from a long time ago, thanks for the credit Dan.

here are some positive I still see for nokia future long-range.

India and Africa and Brazil and Indonesia will be very good for nokia, in my opinion, but i don't think they will be able to get China now as chinese carriers have been allowed to use the heavy subsidization model as in USA. In other parts of the developing world, price vs features will still matter greatly and an iphone is out of the price range of most everyone in these countries if it is unsubsidized.

android+samsung is very problematic at lower price ranges, but I think some countries will eventually resist so much citizen data going through google and android still requires more expensive components to function on a level similar to a symbian phone. most android phones are also inherently more expensive with data usage(ie it is harder to use them completely offline or without GPRS)

also, there is the impending switch to LTE by the largest US carrier, Verizon. Nokia will have phones on verizon sometime in the not too distant future, giving them a good boost. You can pretty well bet that nokia lte phones will have some of the best signal handling on lte, and specifically verizons, as NSN helped them build it.

maps is still pretty good leverage for nokia, in my opinion. google maps on some phones allows some caching now, but still. Not exactly sure how they can leverage this better...

I still think windows phone partnership has potential...laugh all you want, but windows is still king by faaaaar on the desktop and you know microsoft is not above trying some shady bundling tactics ala internet explorer again. if nokia and microsoft can leverage the windows desktop domination and office integration somehow, then it could be huge. Also don't forget that all implementations of activesync(mail for exchange) which has essentially become the defacto standard for PIM data(although I was rooting for syncml) are licensed through microsoft.

the qt ecosystem is also just now germinating and could get fairly large.

those are just my positiv thoughts on nokias future, there is enough negative already to bother adding any of my own :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I'm not sure that Microsoft Windows' dominance is so absolutely assured, based on these two factors:
1) Microsoft Windows vs any other operating system on any form factor (not just desktops) is quickly eroding the way Internet Explorer did (from the mid 90 percentile, quickly slipping down). i.e. http://www.networkworld.com/news/201...-dropping.html
2) Newer versions of Microsoft Windows aren't selling very well at all. Most people are clinging to XP, which doesn't bode well for Microsoft's marketshare--given that people coming from XP are potential consumers to other platforms (Apple, Linux, Android, anything but Windows). i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems

It's, by no means, a signal that they've lost first-place status... but it is a crack in the armor that is starting to widen.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

15 years in first place. Not a bad run.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia CEO once said that "using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth" (not Elop, though).
How WP7 is any different?