Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

well if white balance etc is 100% correct in jpeg, then yes.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

This is what I was looking for--what DOES it do. It's a decent list but does a lot less than I'd expected. But still, it opens the doors WIDE open, given it's open-source and replaces that crap closed-driver from Nokia.

Although I agree with your assessment of the news, I don't agree with your sentiment about N900 owners. I believe N900 owners simply wanted to hear that some of their daily nagging issues might have been resolved. Say, a new firmware update to fix those nagging issues at the very least... at best, maybe some incredibly cool new accessories or, God forbid, news that support has been improved in some way. SOMETHING that pretty much every other company and device gets and we Nokia owners have been lacking.

This is very cool, mind you--but I personally would rather have heard that they did something to sooth over their relationship with consumers. On the other hand, maybe having an open-source camera app IS a little part of that, given the repeated call to open up more of the apps on the N900. This is why I do want to point out how GREAT a moment this is, but I can understand the disappointment to such a build-up. I'd wager it would have gone over MUCH better if there hadn't been a build-up of anticipation over some good news for N900 owners.

Open-source vs closed-source camera driver and app. Opening it up created an incredible potential.

That's it. Keep telling people to go buy something else. :) I'm sure that LESS users and LESS community will absolutely improve the experience. Mind you, my impression is that you're not sporting a different attitude than Nokia themselves... so maybe you're right. :P

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

And what should be done if official packages DO HAVE errors and mainstream [s]developers[/s] managers DON'T WANT to fix them?

You say it's nonsense, it's not possible... As a gentoo user I say: it is possible and it works quite well.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

What else did you expect on that list then? Remember that it's an example application.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

My solution is to:
A: Wait for Titan to modify the kernel
B: Wait for new Fcam drivers that supports Titan's kernel (and others)
C: Reflash to stock and enjoy Fcam

I said that it surprised me that they didn't KNOW about Titans kernel. Not one time did I say that it surprised me that Fcam doesn't work with Titans kernel or that it SHOULD work. I then used an engineering example of what me being surprised felt like. Like designing engines and never driving the cars that they power. A "woa" feeling of I didn't know car X could do this!

You are right about designing applications with official components. I can't agree more. I never questioned that or suggested otherwise.

To make it clear, I would be just as surprised if a developer spent 5 years of development with a target release on the N900 and not know that there is a N64 Emulator, NITDroid or fMMS as these are large projects that have recievedmedia attention beyond TMO. I would think that the people close to the project would have seen, heard, known about high profile N900 projects even if they have nothing to do with them and they don't affect their project development.

That says NOTHING against that devoloper. All I am saying is that I am/would be surprised.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, I found this on: https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum...&forum_id=5871


By: Eino-Ville Talvala
RE: Hi everyone [ reply ]
2010-07-22 11:08
Ayodeji,

The message means that our replacement drivers aren't being loaded properly at boot time (and therefore there's no camera device to access).

It's likely a version mismatch problem - the kernel won't load modules that don't match its version string, and Titan's kernel likely has a different version string than the stock one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is great to see open conversation and more information about the conflict. I would expect Titans Kernel to be updated before the Fcam Team updates their drivers. But then again, I could be surprised.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

It's a great question. I pointed out some of the things I really loved about Camera360 on my Android over at this post: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...942#post759942

It's probably worth re-stating here, though:
Additionally, maybe add the ability to do scenic modes (where you can live-apply an image into a pre-made template scene, like Camera360 also does) and maybe something Camera360 doesn't do: plugins.

If you allow plugins, it might also be a good idea to permit closed-source binary plugin modules. As much as I rail against closed-source, we DO want to promote commercial possibilities if someone wants to pay for a licensed set of very fancy plugins to process live images from fcam (ala Photoshop plugins, for example).

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

will it be exclusive to maemo or will all the work they have done be transferred to meego?

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

I had already asked that question but didn't get a straight-up answer. :( On the other hand, maybe we don't need an answer. Since it was completely open-sourced, I'd assume it will.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

I consider myself a poweruser. I've been using Maemo since Chinook. All the major apps I needed and wanted got hamered out the first month or so of N900 selling. I'm very hapy with the N900, best device I've ever owned. I hack/develop stuff mainly for my own use in my free time because it's fun.

I soon stopped following talk.maemo.org, because it gets tiring to have a zillion threads where someone asks a question on page 1, 15 people say something offtopic or irrelevant on pages 1 and 2, some kind soul gives a proper and correct answer on page 3, and people fill pages 4-6 demanding an answer.

I'm only vaguely aware of titan's kernel. I vaguely recall someone saying it has ext4 from newer ernels. That would interest me, but I'd need a weekend's time to make use of it, so I've never looked closer. As N900 still is by far the best device I've ever had, I want to make sure it keeps working for many many years to come in case nobody comes out with anything that could be considered an upgrade. Thus I stay far away from the overcloking crap, I don't want to slowly make my device more and more unstable until i becomes unusable.
The current performance is good enough as is, though more ram would be nice. Nothing a new kernel would provide. I've been studying and examining long-term swap access patterns to better understand the 2-6 day slowdown effect, found a cause (which turns out to be the same things nokia/peopleatnokia said delayed pr1.2), and a workaround possibly.

In other words, I'm a happy poweruser, and feel no need to participate in the howling masses' running around at the metaphorical market square from one witch doctor's elixirs and placebos to the next, while people doing genuinely interesting stuff with potential to massively improve things are drowned out or even criticized and mocked for the good work they do.

And yes, I'm probably missing out on good stuff like titan's kernel, but I fee much better not taking part in the bigger hatefest.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Sorry wasn't planned for the double post, but my N900 couldn't load the page when i'm posting it. So I just keep refreshing and voila double lol.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Overclocking, just like PC, is for people who need it or want it for a specific thing. Most PC overclockers want better framerate for gaming, better benchmark results, faster video encoding etc.

For the N900, going from 600Mhz to 1Ghz pretty much doubles DrNokSnes framerate. (eg. Yoshi's Island goes from around 25fps to 45fps) My Paint becomes more responsive, multitasking becomes more responsive, MicroB becomes more responsive etc. It's quite noticeable in everyday use.

No idea why overclocking is considered a sin when you can customize the kernels, create buggy devel apps etc to your hearts content on the N900. To me, that's equivalent to overclocking in terms of risk.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Nokia: "Big announcement guys. Ovi Store now has FCamera."

Blogger: "What does it do?"

Nokia: "It lets you take photos with the camera."

Blogger: "Doesn't the stock camera do that?"

Nokia: "What's your point?"

Blogger: "Dude, are you f#*$()&! serious?"

Nokia: "Security!"

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

hahahahaha good one techngro ( gia sas elines )

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

I don't remember anybody posting that overclocking was a sin.

But saying that someone cannot be regarded a valid N900 user because they don't know about a kernel customised solely for overclocking is insolent to no extend.

You have your shiny little overclocking world where Titans kernel is the nonplusultra of installable content for the N900 - the rest of us (and that's a HUGE rest) either have never heard or simply don't care about it.

What I don't get: the developers have, almost instantly after hearing about this incompatibility issue, posted they'll try to fix it.

Instead of saying thanks (which would be due - for, like you said, overclocking is on par with using extras-devel, and almost NOBODY cares whether their application is incompatible with any extras-devel software), they are now being defamed as "not even owning a N900".

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Given that a N900 can at any given time be either overclocked or not; and that the FCam developers MUST develop something that works on official N900 firmware, I do not think they should spend a single hour conforming to an overclockers kernel until after v. 1.0 release. If you try to develop the perfect application, no one will ever see it. If you develop a good application, you can improve it once it has had a good reception. If it doesn't get a good reception, spending time on conforming it to a different kernel is not only a delay but a pointless one.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Purple, monkey, dishwasher.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Seriously how long will it takes for TOMORROW to come? Tomorrow from nokia is may be next month or next year.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

I didn't even bother counting the mistakes there after two first ones

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

You quoted my post but accused about things I've never said or done. I'll just assume you were referring to some other ignorant posters and not me. :cool:

I'll bet titan's kernel (due to overclocking support) is and will continue to be more popular than FCam and I mean that with absolutely no intention of disrespect to FCam whatsoever. (I'm a photography buff and love the idea of FCam and I've thanked the developer already.)

You'll be surprised how many actually overclock but don't even have accounts at TMO. (I know at least 5 people at work and many more at other community forums) However, many who do want to use FCam are also TMO buffs and many of them would be also using titan's kernel. (titan's kernel was useful even before overclocking was discovered. NTFS, USP/IP etc. Overclocking support was added later on and he did a mighty fine job as he put fail-safe's in place for even the noobs.)

It is in best interest by the FCam developer to see if he can get it working with the most popular custom kernel for the N900. It's a win win if he can pull it off as he'll get much more FCam users. :D (Obviosly, it might be the other way around and titan might need to modify his kernel to not conflict with FCam.)

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

I am unable to find in ovistore, nor in App Manager. Can you show me the link please?

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

what if titan made his kernel in a way that everything except three random apps crash once in a hour?

so actually it should be titan's work to make his kernel compatible to stock one...

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Don't worry, I only quoted your post for the sin part and countered with something that actually HAS been posted. Guess I'll have to point fingers next time to avoid confusion about whom what part of a message is directed at. :D

I wouldn't be so sure about the numbers - overclockers have always made up a fairly small percentage with any hardware, and while of course the N900 attracts more tech inclined userbase, I wouldn't say that the majority of N900 users overclock their device.

For the "not registered" argument goes the other way round just as well - lots of unregistered non-overclocking TMO buffs, too.

But that's not even the point. No matter how many overclockers are out there, it's just not true that one HAS to know and care about the custom kernel in order to be considered a valid N900 user. I understand how it's an important part of this community for you, but it's not for others.

From the point of view of someone not interested in overclocking and thus with a more removed view on things, all I can say is that it's NOT "one of the hottest topics" (not posted by yourself again - just making sure ;)) on TMO - unless the hot refers to the posting count of a single thread. :D

I wouldn't argue with that, as even if only 1% of all N900 used the kernel, it would still be worth getting FCam to work with it. It's just that I don't think they are OBLIGED to do it, as opposed to the win-win situation, ditching the custom kernel users wouldn't exactly be a loose-loose situation. More like a nothing gained-loose situation (which, as far as I know, is no official part of game theory, so I'll stop abusing that one now :D).

With that in mind, I just don't get the need for badmouthing the developers (which the majority of people in this thread seem rather happy to do - again, not directed at you), ESPECIALLY not when they're already working on fixing the incompatibilities.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

As far as I know, not in this case, as the problem seems to be a script checking for the kernel version which simply does not include custom kernels.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

???

Just because some people feel underwhelmed by Nokia finally listening to our pleads to open source access to some of the hardware doesn't mean that the FCam news don't qualify as "exciting news"... :D

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Not that exciting Fcam take quite low quality picture at the moment. It still got a long way to go before it can surpassing the already Camera app. But it might be way more advanced with all the manual focus and customising :) Love the manual camera.

It would be very greatest news if NOkia released the source code for DSP :D and many other drivers. So NITdroid can use it and also MeeGO.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

FCam != FCamera

The latter "only" being a proof-of-concept for the API itself.

(Btw, for me FCamera makes better pictures than the vanilla application...)

No, it would be the greatest news if Nokia paid me €5000 each month for using their devices.

Until then, making it possible - by providing an API for a formerly completely closed part - to replace one of the system applications that has been criticised the most is good enough for me. :rolleyes:

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Titan's kernel is proven to be quite compatible as FCam is the first one I've heard that fail using his kernel. We both do not know which end the fault lies. As an end user, I just want it to work regardless of who is at fault. I'm sure same goes for the FCam developer and titan as well. So I think we'll probably end up with a fix soon.

It'll be interesting to compare stock camera, FCam and BlessN900 outputs of the same scene.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

none of this matters. apps etc will be developed to stock kernel. it is up to you if you want either stock kernel or possible problems with certain apps.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

I'm a dev if I was writing a kernel module like the fcam devs have done. I would target and release it for the stock kernel. I wouldn't even bother trying to get it to work on Titan's or anyone elses custom kernel.

You call yourself power users, why don't you pull the source and compile it yourselves... That is what it means to be a power user. Stop *****ing and start being productive.

Also, I can't believe that a load of you are so ignorant to install a custom kernel and not even know how to go back to the stock one. That just strikes me as really idiotic.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

really this is the big news ' i don't even know what the hell they are talking about ! then again i'm just a regular user don't know all about that stuff .

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Thanks for this! Who'd thought one day we could get RAW from a "phone" :-) Although I can't try it right now since I'm running titans kernel.

Thanks for open-sourcing this, please (pretty pease!) make it work with titans kernel.

Cheers, Mathias

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

It really is "Titan" or someone elses job to compile it against that kernel...

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Speaking for myself, I know how to go back to the stock kernel, but that doesn't mean I want to. I would love to have FCam, but not as much as I like the possibility to overclock.

As for who 'should' do the fix, both parties are developing for free, so I would say neither. It would be very nice of course, and in that case I do not really care who would do it.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

It is actually quite big news, as the ambitions of fCam go way beyond cameraphones. But it was the N900 that got it first.

http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/frankencam..._programmable/

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Many of these things will come I am sure. Remember this is not the finished article but very much work in progress. Probably very similar to what Camera360 was like in it's early stages before release. The important thing here is that this has been released in a development stage to let other developers work on it.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

But why would they? I think you'd know what titans kernel stands for only:

- if you follow the forums here actively, or
- if you are especially interested in overclocking the N900

I wouldn't *expect* those from people developing for N900 (especially if they do it as a day job). Some will know, some won't.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

From this post:

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

Help me understand here. As an average user, why would this be big news?? I try out the fcam, nothing special to me?? It's all about taking pictures or making it clearer whatever i don't see much different from just taking it with the default. In fact, i find the program called "iFOCUS" more appealing because you can record a video while focus and adjust clearity.

if Fcam can let me do that, i'll be more interested.

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

How do you enable flash when taking photos on Fcam please?

Flash works fine with the built in camera software. Nada with Fcam.:confused:

Re: Nokia has exciting news for N900 users
 

iFocus = frame drop when you using it. Very bad freeze every time you load the app.

It's neat app but if someone could make it turn into autofocus instead would be nice for video recording. or torch!