Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

http://www.gsmarena.com/newscomm-3826.php

its now started, android with motorola, nokia with microsoft, apple is apple, lets hope samsung will bring us tizen, make a wish.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

gartner released stat for 2011. the most interesting part which i love to read is the declining of WP. it has been declined 65% since 2010. and now at only 1.9% market share. even bada has more market share than WP 2%.
here is quota from the article:

and the LINK FOR ARTICLE

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

WP7's decline isn't that spectacular. I think we've all stated it was going to happen. Some of us... not as spectacularly aggressive and angst-ridden as mikecomputing, but there's truth between his rants.

With that said... weird not knowing that Maemo/MeeGo share is. Would love to figure out its sales somehow by some metric other than guessing.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

That 1,9% are the phones nokia/microsoft sent out to developer. So interms of real customers it is about 0,0%

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

There seems to be plenty of 'hardly used' Lumia 800s on ebay atm. ;)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Y'all dev bastards could have sent me one. Just sayin'...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Here's some more prescient speculation:
http://www.ebnonline.com/author.asp?...bnonline_gnews

"The cutbacks, which will hit manufacturing facilities in Finland, Hungary, and Mexico, brings total planned job cuts to more than 30,000 since Stephen Elop took the CEO spot in September 2010, cites Reuters. And it comes on the tail of bad earnings news: Fourth-quarter smartphone sales fell 31 percent from a year ago, and the company had "a steep loss" for the quarter, according to the wire report."

"As we all know, though, the money -- and the margin -- is in the smartphone business. Nokia's chance to get any significant portion of that market looks bleaker every month. We'll see what Elop has to say at this year's MWC show, starting Feb. 27."

Keep blaming those salespeople, Elop. THAT'S the ticket!

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

forza maemo!! :D

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Yeah, just clever to step out of the smartphone market using this crappy Windows Phone for their devices! #strange

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

this ain't a democracy :|
this is capitalism...
buy ('nough) NOKIA shares &... vote him out :D

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

i know, i know, market shares & % are always a tricky thing...
from 3.4 to 1.9 % market shares (a decline in 1.5 percentage points) amounts to a decrease of 44.11 %.
still ppl claiming m@ke$$h!t LostDOS Paralyzed ( ;) ) is a success can't even be called fanboys anymore... bigots, @ best :cool:

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Vote here for N9 http://www.engadget.com/2011awards/ . Don't let lumia to gather 1% :-)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Sorry, I don't visit engadget anymore but may the best phone win.


If you are wondering why i pledge to not visit that cesspool. As you might have known with my previous posts here I didn't like the place that much already but after commenting on a correction to an article and criticizing the use of unnecessary quotes with courtesy, I was met with a post by Richard Lawler (an Mod/Editor there) along the lines of telling me to learn to read. I posted an example of why quotes are not required because the sentence is paraphrased with only two words which were not out of the ordinary.

He must have taken that badly once people upvoted me and I was banned from commenting. All the while people insult each other and their mothers scott-free. While doing so he posted this ironic little nugget:

"Anyone who actually who understands language knows why there's quotation marks there, you can take your English professor act on the road."

Yeah, sorry about that rant but the mods there are useless and don't take criticism well. Not visiting there at all anymore.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

What? It's not even listed under 'Worst Gadget of 2011'? I certainly wasn't going to vote for it as 'Smartphone of 2011' when I'm repeatedly told that Maemo devices aren't cellphones, they're computers. Right? Besides all that, this is a ridiculously flawed poll that barely makes any sense on so many levels as to make it a joke to begin with.


When someone's job is on the line because you corrected them publicly, they get snarly and nasty. You may have been right, but you should probably have emailed him directly to point that out instead, if you wanted him to not have such a reaction. To that end, however, he would do well to consult an English professor and, from the sound of it, a communication and journalism professor so that these types of incidents do not continue to threaten his career. I cannot overstate how important consistent, clear and correct communication can be, especially when your job is journalism.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

and the war begin, :(

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

"The" war? Which one? Near as I can tell, there's several "wars" going on, all of which Nokia & uberfans appear to be on the losing side of. It would serve Nokia well to abandon this course and seek to emulate the winning strategies of their past and of the competitors whom appear to be besting them. Thus far, Nokia has instead hired on as their new CEO, a person who had very little leadership success in the past and sided with a miserably failing platform (read: not just failing, failing miserably). Of course, it would be better to fail and ruin jobs and a whole local economy just to save face rather than admit their mistakes and seek a corrective coarse of action. This is an appalling shame. Instead of more and better competition--instead, Nokia is derping its way to leaving us with one less competitor in the market. "Nevermind!" says Elop, "It's the salesmen's fault" for not selling our excellent [failing product line] hard enough! Those terrible, terrible salespeople are far too interested in selling people quantities of other products that they're looking for JUST FOR PROFIT instead of the product we KNOW they really wanted. Sure they might disenchant the customers and they might go elsewhere--but its their fault for not pushing Nokia harder!

"The" war, you say, begins? :P No, friend, it's been running for about a year. Anyone still remember all fanboys of the Microsoft strategy (*cough* ericcson--appropriately the company of the same name is gone now too) saying things like, "This is GREAT!" and "Give it a year! You'll see!" Well... it's been more than a year now... how's that Elop+Microsoft strategy working out for Nokia again?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

and this masterpiece from nokia is a victim in this story, RIP maemo

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

It's another tragic case of "what could have been."

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I guess you are right, perhaps it would have been the better course of action, but I'm not concerned about a ban. The article author and editor which replied were not the same so his job wasn't really on the line. The author shall remain nameless just in case his job truly is at risk (which I doubt). If merely posting a correction did cause upset the person or I could easily delete the post afterwards anyway.

I'm not sure why such a reaction can be considered ordinary though. If I cannot expect an editor to suppress their emotions and not abuse their power when addressing a courteous correction then there is no reason for me to expect them to suppress their emotions and abuse of power when trying to write an impartial article. Then again, now that you mention it, it does make sense with Engadget and I should have known the outcome.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

maybe it is only good that maemo was killed, there is no way integrating a community that has such members with normal people.

I cannot believe myself that I could ever never say something such like this: I won't be missing you. My opinions are moving to the direction that if I keep visiting here much more, I'd probably be able to put my name under this thing from the past (those who don't know what happened then: you are probably the reason for the change of my mind. I really loved ITT and tmo at first but now....)

http://wiki.maemo.org/A_message_to_the_Maemo_Community

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Your opinions are not moving towards that of qwerty12 it's moving away from it, since you seem to be pro-Nokia and in favour of the move to an even more closed system. The only way you are moving towards it is that you are losing your cool in much the same way and insulting others.

There is no need to get angry if somebody asks for Elops resignation. I understand and agree with you that it's non-constructive and that it's meaningless but keep your calm. The death of maemo has nothing to do with the community and expressing an opinion on a forum does not make anybody any less normal. I happened to agree with most of qwerty12s critcism which was unfortunatly and unnecessarily laced in insults and personal attacks, justified or otherwise.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

thats life, pro and cons, black and white, can we blend it? and sit together enjoy it?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Those researching won't be the idiots buying a WP device.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

And then Ebay would have more business than Nokia.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

1.89% out of that 1.9% is WinMo.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

where is the thanks button!!! i hate nokia, i wish theyre burn and sinking, theyre stupid enough to listening, theyre never satisfying their loyal consumer!!!:mad:

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

IMHO, wouldn't be THAT crazy to assume. Look at all the devices used in logistics etc.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Of course, it is crazy to assume that. But, there are definitely WinMo devices in there. HD2 sold quite a lot, and to be honest, I only saw 3 WP devices so far in the past year.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles is TRUE..
salesmen should either be doing a pole-dance to sell this phone on should put hands in customers pocket and sell them forcefully even if no one likes the technology and "they are doing neither if these"..

"Of course they should be blamed"

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

It's probably also a matter of feeling secure in your professional qualifications, too. I'm a geekier-than-thou freaking nerd--big time! When someone at work points out a bug or a flaw in my work, I get excited and I look at them as an opportunity to improve or to remember not to make the same mistake again. I encourage corrections and bug reports. Ultimately, it makes me look good in the end. Not everyone thinks that way and they sometimes snap at people that point out their flaws. In other contexts outside of work or computers, I might exhibit the same behavior--it's a natural human reaction.

Just feel bad for the guy and move on. It's just kind of unfortunate that they reacted that way instead of considering it as errata for improvement.


Cue is right: Aside from all the vitriol and filth in his message, Qwerty was bang-on with his ranting assessment. Sadly, it's as if people take it personally if you criticize the brand they bought. I wish for the best but I don't hold my breath for long. I've said it from the start: I'm not married to any brand--I'll go to whatever platform provides me with what I want. I've done very well by that philosophy and I happily move on once the brand/platform fails me. It's just business anyway. In the end, the company doesn't care about me--why should I care about the company? The pragmatic among us have already seen the writing on the wall and begun dipping our toes in the waters of other lakes and we've discovered that some of them are far more satisfactory after Nokia stopped trying to cater to the customers and began to filthy their own water. Sitting in that filthy water and claiming it's better is stubborn and isn't particularly convincing to even the mildly astute.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Amen to that. :)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

You know what, there's a benefit to being niche. Imagine tmo if the N9 sold hundreds of millions...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

:D I knew it was worth following rant threads, this right here is pure gold. No idea why author of wiki entry thought it was homophobic, penis-centric more like it, still, such colourful imagery.


Please share your experience from other lakes. Did you find any that allows you to swim naked without bathing costume/cap restrictions? I might be fanboy considering above golden rant, don't really care, I don't expect any company to be my Jesus, but N900 is still for me the biggest lake out there and I enjoy having a full linux distro in my pocket. (with gcc 4.6 I am becoming a total device fanboy, that is true)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

reminds me of a joke of old...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Key word there: "sometimes." Never mind imagining IF the N9 sold hundreds of millions. Why the pretending and fantasy? Now wake up and realize the humiliating, cold, damp truth of finding yourself on your own, far from support and civilization. Sometimes, there are benefits to being niche--for the vast majority of time though, niche is just code for getting dumped under a bridge in New Jersey, naked and covered in hickies after Nokia took your money and left you on your own.

The experiences have been, overall, positive elsewhere. I've already pointed them out before: Surprisingly excellent hardware and software support even from companies that I wanted to dislike (like Verizon). It's surprisingly refreshing to be able to get parts (FREE sometimes!), frequent software updates for up to nearly two years out and, most importantly, prompt replacements and someone to speak to face-to-face in a store or kiosk. In contrast. Nokia refused to even make spare STYLUSES available much less parts, to get a whole new replacement I was able to walk into a Verizon store and instantly walk back out with a new device whereas Nokia insists that we ship our product (especially terrible if you're using an N900 as your phone!!) to them whereupon it wanders the Earth (for all anyone knows) for 30 days and it MIGHT come back as the same model--it might not. That's just the personal stuff, then there's the advantage of platforms where there are more than one vendor to choose from like Android and Windows Phone, there's the various form factors to choose from (small phones, big phones, tablets, tablet-netbook, etc.) and so on. All missed opportunities that Nokia easily could have done ages ago and people on this forum had already suggested and clamored for--so it wouldn't have been a surprise if Nokia would have been at the forefront, but that never happened. The mortal sins, though, are how poorly Nokia competes: poor customer treatment and support.

You might be happy with the N900, or you might be one of those stubborn people sitting in a filthy lake insisting it's preferable just to spite the people that have left for better waters. If you're trying to claim openness as an advantage with Maemo, you might have missed reading that part of the aforementioned ranting from Qwerty where he rightfully mentioned the riddling of closed-source components and drivers. If Nokia was so interested in open-source, they would not INCREASINGLY use closed components, argued against OGG on patent grounds, writing more and more closed-source into their product and ultimately decide to go with an admittedly and truly closed-source operating system like Windows Mobile. Ultimately, though, you'll find that the still waters of Nokia aren't healthy. Nokia's waters are very, very still even if you like your device. Just saying--you might want to keep an open and pragmatic mind.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

odd that this is exactly the places where war reporters, red cross employees and many other people working in 3rd world countries, as well as a vast majority of citizen in such countries have been depending on NOKIA phones... for the sake of their lives if nothing else.

but of course, if New Jersey is wilderness to you...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Myths. Red cross workers have used SE and HTC devices for years, as well as Nokia and Samsung and Motorola.

Time to get the feet on the ground. WP seems to go in the wrong direction, despite the Nokia/Microsoft effort. If this continues for much longer it means the end of Nokia as we know it. Samsung is the new big boy regardless, and if you want something different or niche in the future, that is where you should look.

Samsung makes excellent hardware, and also excellent software. Start by getting a Bada device, or a straight Samsung/Google (Nexus). You will be in for a surprise. Bada is soon to be fused together with Tizen if all goes well. When/if that happens there will hopefully be some kick *** devices to follow it up. That is the future.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Sounds like an ad hominem argument without any facts to back it up. Near as I can tell, the closest thing I can find is that Nokia donated phones to Red Cross efforts--but I can't find anything to state that any of these groups DEPEND on Nokia devices (say, because of any particular requirements or because they deem them especially capable or rugged in any way or anything).

However, factual statistics on new activations and market share ARE bearing out the bigger picture that Nokia has been losing more and more of their market share the world over--including these locations where war reporters, Red Cross employees (note capitalization) and many other people in locations you probably consider 'third world countries' (properly spelling out the word third) and fewer and fewer citizens in such countries that used to depend on Nokia phones. The argument that they use Nokia branded phones "for the sake of their lives if nothing else" is purely your conjecture without some evidence of that but I'll admit that it's blatantly hilarious given how much you're "on your own" for support and their world-class mail-it-to-us-to-maybe-get-it-back repair and make SURE that it is tragically obvious.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Any change in WP strategy would take at least 12 months and they dont have that time. The people required for it were either fired or left. Plus the key management people put in place are basicly Microsoft Borgs.

Resistance is futile. Nokia as we knew it is allready over. The remaining parts are so uninspiring that I reallly don't care what happens to it.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

It was pretty much obivous that this pun was intended by me. Lets just say that qwerty12 wasn't that happy about people who didn't want to see the big picture. And now I think I am beginning to understand the reasons why he had no point "hanging out" anymore...


Final time: I am not pro nokia. I am pro their decision to provide lumias to the masses in order to stay alive because they blew it already in ~2008 with maemo when thinking about the big plan, schedule and resources pointed to the project. They just had everything too well with the symbian.

but thanks a lot for the ad hominems, one more reason to know that this place is probably ruined for good. But I'd guess that it is easy to start the "you fanboy, me not" -stuff when there are no real arguments and the big ship is already sailing in the horizon...