Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Just relax! Just the same people, over and over again, going after another! Ignore them and you will get used to it. :rolleyes:

After some time you even might enjoy the entertainment! :D

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

For a short moment I have wanted to invite Dave999 to start the countdown just to spin this into a more friendly/funny thing :D

As michaaa62 is sugesting - relax and enjoy the entertainment !!!

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Behind-the-scenes sneak-peak (for now, textual only) on what you can expect on next (or the one after next, if we won't manage to get it right before 16.06.2014) progress update:
1. anodizing-helper files on gitorious, aka the various things and procedures one need to apply after milling, before (and during) sending to anodization, tuned for "airplane" alu type. In case someone re-creates backcover on own machine, said person won't need to retract our steps (and waste prototypes) to get things right.

2. Detailed description of real-life signal strength tests (with final revision of backcover) and their results (including tests in remote location, with only one known base station for tested carrier, checking for signal directional capabilities and how they change with backcover attached). This one is initially scheduled for 30.06.2014 update.

Also, Estel will be on well-deserved vacations between 14 and 28 June, so the signal strength test is the only progress update to be expected on 30th.

Personally, I can't wait for the results,
****

Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

What is the weight of the device with the alu body/ back cover?

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Noted for "questioning". Will bundle the answer into the next scheduled progress update, if you don't mind.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

All right, scheduled update #1:

Current proto of complete flat backcover weights 40 gram. We estimate, that keeping proper diet ;) It can get as low as 35 gram at final release, maybe little less. for comparison, regular backcover is 14 gram.

In my personal opinion, difference of 26 gram is negligible in real life usage, due to N900 being a quite heavy device, already. OTOH, there is no problem with identifying which N900 have new cover during blind test using two devices, each in one hand. Hoever, if device was "weighted" in hand one at a time, our small test group had exactly 50% accuracy, aka coin flip.

We think that it will become even less noticeable in "fat" variant, due to increased weight of dual-cell battery.

****

Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Small teaser before the 14.07.2014 scheduled update:

http://s13.postimg.org/j9csztg93/cover_black.jpg

http://s13.postimg.org/f1i0r2etj/cover_matt.jpg

Ignore the fingerprints etc - those are just two quick photos, showing first results of the ceramic lacquer mentioned in last post, hardened by three passes of heating and cooling. Tests were done on old and defunct pre-prototype, which now will get through endurance tests.

****
Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

It may be too late but if you scoop a bit out under the battery cover we could possibly stuff a Qi charger, dual sim, or maybe a unpackaged SDR dongle.
Not sure if the inductive charging would be blocked by the Al cover.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Of course it will! It will act as one turn of a receiving coil, short-circuited for your convenience. It is not the same as a magnetic shield and some current will be generated by the real receiving coil, but the efficiency will be severely affected. I would be surprised to get more than 10%. If you had asked when I studied these things at the university, I could have even calculated it for you but that was quarter a century ago and I have forgotten most of it :)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

No worries, the "fat" version is coming soon after flat one - the former offers plenty of space for people willing to still use single-cell battery, or just "some" space in addition to dual-cell one (to the left of battery, on the opposite side of battery, to the one where camera is).

/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

So I've been reading up on ceramic coatings, and I have a quick question: From what I've skimmed, it seems that ceramic coatings tend to produce greater heat resistance and (more concerningly in some ways) can work as great insulators.

My questions are:

1. Does the heat-resistance apply to the ceramic laquers being considered? If so, does it perhaps offset the heat-dissipating advantage that having an aluminum body/cover would provide? Or does heat resistance in this context mean resistance from damage/deformation, but not insulation?

2. Does the tendency to work as a good insulator apply to the kind of ceramic laquers being considered? And if so, does the effect on electromagnetic properties of the material bode better or worse for the signal quality of the device, especially once we get to the full-body replacements?

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

1.The latter - they're resistant to heat and wear under heat (the one used up to 490 C). Not very important in our case, as No one is going to use N900 in such circumstances, but if you drop your device into fireplace, you at least should be sure that your backcover won't lose colour ;)

As for heat dissipation, the effect is negligible, and won't affect properties in any measurable way as compared to anodizing. Of course, bare aluminum will always be a tiny, tiny bit more effective at this - but, it won't be bare for long, as it will oxidize on it's own (just in non-uniform layer, so without as much added scratch-resistance as with anodized or lacquered surface). So, for our intents and purposes, no change here.

2. Indeed they're insulators, but not much more than the layer produced during anodizing. After all the latter, is alu-oxide, formed in layer with certain properties (very small pores, that are used as residue for a special after-anodizing dye, BTW) - not great conductor, either.

But, in our application of whole body replacement, it doesn't matter - for the radios, we have a thousands orders of magnitude bigger "problem" with the *conductor* used for body (that is, Alu). Incidentally, conductor act as shield, in this case - even on it's own, but even better when it's grounded (at the very end to battery - not real ground, but still). It is the case for N900's metal parts (border around screen, back of screen...), and will+must be the case for body replacement.

Due to this, in full body replacement, antennas will get "re-delegated" to the outer side. Think N950's antennas, just without N950's poor radio performance (as they have failed with the quasi-coil antennas).

Of course, there is still the port for connecting external antenna for N900 that is a crucial (read: must have) part of body replacement which will allow to get absolutely superior radios performance in special situations - but I'm absolutely sure that performance of internal antennas is no less important, for everyday use. Won't neglect that part, that is for sure.

Side note - I was *very* tempted to create complete new internal fractal antenna, that could get integrated into back part of body replacement. But, designing one that will work well is hell of a task, with much, MUCH testing and trial&error (even if using antenna designing software, like 4nec), so it would delay body replacement part considerably (it could take as long as doing everything else...). So, it's idea that I'll try someday for my own, slowly, and report if I succeed :p

/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

I haven't been active lately and it's been a long time since I looked in this thread.
Since I made a PayPal account and I got a credit card, etc. I want to donate,
when I get a job next week I will donate to certain people after taking care of something else.
Thanks for your work and I'm looking forward to buying the stuff! And it won't be long until I will repair my N900, I got a soldering iron finally... :)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Don't think I'm going to live that long.... I'm 65 next May....

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Hey, don't put my hopes down!
I can relate this project with Half-Life 3 actually.
Only, this project isn't so secretive...
I've only read the last 10 pages of this thread, whether
Estel succeeds or not at least he tried and did his best
to succeed.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Don't get me wrong, I sincerely hope this succeeds, I will be there in the queue to buy at least one case/back for my much also hoped for neo900's, just hope I live long enough!

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

FYI I thought the covers were going to cost more than $50 for flat, $70 for fat and $200 for the whole package.
I am willing to donate soon and hopefully when these get released I will be able to buy the whole package.
Right now I'm just a 17yo teenager looking for a job and other ways to make money.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Move to the west and you will live longer.
Edit:
answer for the next post:
If you finalize this project maybe you will be moved in the west to live longer.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Stay on target... Stay on target... ;)

The latest proto (the one in photos few pages back) is lacquered and currently sits in the furnace, hardening ceramic coating (undergoing 4 passes of heating up and cooling). My camera awaits impatiently. Alongside old keys and hammer for resistance tests (don't expect it to be a graphene - it certainly will get scratched by those - but the whole thing is how it will look afterwards, as compared to "standard" lacquer used by all device manufacturers out there).

/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

And now, the hardening process is complete:

http://s27.postimg.org/dadhkd6b7/cover2.jpg

...and with leg extended:
http://s27.postimg.org/9tbfhe78z/cover.jpg

Below, photo of the much older test unit, coated with the same ceramic lacquer, hardened, and given some harsh treatment (scratching with keys, paper-cutting knife, sandpaper):

http://s27.postimg.org/k4nsa1yyb/aft...atch_tests.jpg

As you might notice, the tested surface is clearly visible - no surprise here - but coating never got scratched off to the point of showing silvery aluminum surface underneath - unlike regular lacquer used on aluminum bodies of various expensive devices on the market, which tend to show "shiny scratches" all the time. We're really satisfied with the result.

Now, as for flat backcover and it's after-coating usage test, we haven't encountered any major issues, requiring fixing/re-designing. We're going to make hinges with brass instead of aluminum - just like we're doing already with one part of camera-slide-cover mechanism, not because it deforms or whatsnot, but just in case. Those elements are very small, and considering how comfortable it is to use N900 with the new, big kickstand, we suspect that it's usage may experience kind of renaissance. We wouldn't want to get reports about any damage during more heavy-duty use cases (like, writing angry posts on TMO ;) with device sitting on the desk).

After implementing that, we're moving straight to the "fat" backcover, with it's addition of tripod mounting point! Pre-order people - you may already start to prepare your custom text/logos for being engraved on your backcovers :)
****

Arien Stokowiec

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

That looks so much better when finished.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

What is the weight of the phone with the new back cover?

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

That question has already been asked (by the same poster, no less) and answered. The poster has even thanked for the answer. A temporary amnesia, perhaps? ;)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Yeah you're right. I totally forgot that the question was answered. :o

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Thanks! Many people had doubts after seeing results of 3D printing things like keyboard TOH's for Jolla, etc. While I don't mean any disrespect for 3D printing DIY'yers here - in fact, they're bunch super-creative people, and it's really nice to see that people are entering self-manufacturing with such enthusiasm - I understand why consumer 3D printing results may not match one's aesthetic.

That's why I've chosen CNC approach, which is much less common, and for good reasons - one need to gain heck of experience when building such manufacturing machine, to achieve desired results. Many caveats along the way (if some of you remember my early video footages of CNC machine and would compare it with it's current look, it could be hardly called the same unit - it was reworked and tweaked so many times...), and inaccuracy margin is much smaller, not to mention higher possibility of damaging own hard-build equipment (more likely) or self health (less likely, but still possible with mill razor turning 24000 times per minute with 2kW of power, and accelerating cut-off metal particles adequately).

Anyway, I hope that final results of flat backcover aesthetic are satisfying to you as they are to me - it looks elegant, yet sturdy. Custom finish methods may make them look more badass (for example, leaving traces of CNC mill) or "mainstream" (for example, choosing glossy lacquer variant, instead of matte). Peersonally, I'm "waiting" for the fat version, as it's what I'll be using every day in real-life applications ;) not to mention the tripod launch, that, if someone still remembers that, was a spark that started this project alltogether.

After that, the most exciting part - whole body replacement. This one is going to be definitely tricky to polish (radios), and overall, whole lotta heck of a challenge to integrate properly, considering the amount of functional features we want to add (sourcing shielded hirose u.FL to regular mini antennae adapters with good quality builds and affordable price, for example... And ones possible to dissasembly, as we will need to modify them for our needs (3 hirose ends, one regular antenna end). Eagerly looking forward to meet those challenges!
---

From organizational announcements - we're going to close backcover pre-order donations in two weeks - soon to be replaced by regular "orders". It would be quite unfair to allow people get the same "goodies" pre-ordering 2 days before backcovers become readily available for purchase, as we have offered to early supporters. Anyway, if you want to donate counting for pre-order, it's the last chance ;). Full body replacement (and regular, non pre-order) donations will still be accepted, as the body thing is likely to require many expected and unexpected financial expenses.

Just as backcovers in both variants will start becoming ready for shipping, all past pre-order people should expect mails (and other forms of contact) about details, choices, custom engravings, etc. This is going to be happy moment!

Cheers,
/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

So the day's finally nearing, excellent, any (preliminary) plans for the N9 yet, perhaps almost time to start a dedicated thread? ;)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

I think that such question will be correct near the day of releasing N900's body replacement (as N900 would require whole body replacement too), not the backcover stage. Sorry, not yet ;)

/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

What is the accuracy of the CNC milling machine?

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

In general, or my personal one? In the former case, well, as accurate as you make it ;) LinuxCNC suite supports 0,0001 mm accuracy, which can be further divided by using fraction of steps. Of course it's theoretical accuracy, pracital one need to be measured by real-life effect, and depends on the technique that your CNC machine is built, properties of materials used there, etc.

Another factor affecting accuracy, is the so-called "rectangle correctness" - i.e how close to ideal is the rectangle (or cube) made by your machine, in terms of angle accuracy. So it's not all about how well the machine reflects the step-motor move you want it to in linear move, the things like 3D-angles of every working part in your machine plays a role, too. Proper calibrating it for real-life results is a heck of a task, and if you're aiming for high accuracy, it should redone with every major change in temperature and humidity (unless you keep your CNC in something like server-room controlled environment).

You can skip most of those, if your machine have no more than something like 0,1 mm, accuracy (which, in real life effects, can create surprisingly non-matching parts...). The machine I'm using now - after many upgrades and design changes - have real-life accuracy of about 0,01 mm. Generally, whole things i (now) build for even better one, but the mechanic of the threaded axises is limiting here. One day, I will replace "classical" threaded axises I use, with much-more expensive ball-chain ones. For now, using backslash must be enough.
---

Now, just a small side-note - when comparing accuracy between different devices, be sure that you're looking at the test results from real-life things such machine have made. Many sellers (or even DIY'ers) post a theoretical accuracy, which is completely unrelated to reality (that's why you may read about 0,01 accuracy on 3D printer, while, in reality, you still have "stripes" of plastic, that you need to clean manually, and are visible clearly by naked eye, or felt to the touch).

/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

http://s27.postimg.org/dadhkd6b7/cover2.jpg
This is the final design? That kickstand is an aesthetic disaster.
I dreamed to have an alu back cover. But with that hole and that kickstand
I will dream no more. Anyway good luck.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Yep, it's final design. I'm not sure what "hole" you mean (the oval thing under kickstand isn't hole, it is, actually, pretty polished place for inserting your finger[nail] to open kickstand), while camera "hole" have, of course, retractable cover.

As for kickstand shape, the 1st priority of this project is functionality, with aesthetic going as far as it doesn't hinder the former. Giving kickstand a fancy shape would weaken it, no to mention that I don't see the point of having spiral kickstand, or whatsnot... In fact, I see it as counter-productive. Probably, it's the reason, why I don't have *design* anywhere in job title ;)

The alu backcover kickstand is complete opposition of nicely "designed", but completely unusable, vanilla N900's kickstand. New leg have corrected angle (when you lay your N900 on desk with it extended, it doesn't face sky anymore), device stand sturdily even when you write on it while it sits on desk, etc. That was the point of new kickstand. Ideally, I would replicate N8**'s kickstand that everyone loves, but it is not possible/feasible for backcover, flat or fat. High chance of implementing it in whole body replacement.

Anyway, as mentioned many times, all files are on gitorious, so if you can design something better and make machinable g-codes out of it, just "fork" and send a pull request. Every contribution will be dully considered (and if sensible, talked here).

/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Could you put links to the files, and other links in the first post? Makes them easier to find. I already lost them.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Repeating a link, just in case somebody looks for it...
https://gitorious.org/fremantle-backcover-replacement

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

For Qi charging to work it will have to be externally applied, maybe with adhesive. The universal pads have a shield on the back to keep the battery casing from draining away the inductive power transfer, it will work to prevent that with an Al cover as well.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Just FYI, personally I think the kickstand looks good enough. I mean, I understand where you're coming from, aesthetic preferences for humans are largely founded on prior experience and vague mental associations, and I can see how that can look unappealing to some. I like it though.

In fact, while I would enjoy the once-upon-a-time discussed 'full body' kick-stand, I find this one sufficiently pleasing, more so than the stock camera+kickstand thing. I think the biggest part that hurts the aesthetic is the hinge attachment points break the smooth plane of the rest of the cover (but I can understand that it's like this, since it probably has to be made out of a different piece (I imagine the only way you could 'embed' the kickstand into the backcover without it having a noticeably 'separate' attachment is with one of those obscenely expensive 3D printers that can print metal with like, lasers and metal powder, you know, black magic sort of stuff). But anyway, it bothers me less than the blue band on the inside of the camera lid, or the camera cover being protruding in the first place, on the stock backcover.

So yeah, to me it looks good. *Shrug*

Anyway, this just got me all excited about getting one of these eventually.

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Still pushing for that idea in the "full-body" phase. Might be tricky to pull out effectively - for cutting such leg, without pressure-molding, you need to cut it from thick aluminum brick, and as result you get inner-part of that "brick", that is just a little smaller of what you would need for parts of body. So, the full-body leg, suddenly, require the same amount of start material, than rest of unit (whole body). I'll try to come with some solution for this, maybe some clever idea will come up.

[QUOTE=Mentalist Traceur;1438542] I imagine the only way you could 'embed' the kickstand into the backcover without it having a noticeably 'separate' attachment is with one of those obscenely expensive 3D printers that can print metal with like, lasers and metal powder, you know, black magic sort of stuff)/quote]

Yep, exactly like that. And even then, I suspect that the part acting like hinges would be too weak, if made from laser-welded* metal powder - actually, as mentioned in one of earlier post, I needed to replace aluminum hinges with brass ones, for the durability reasons (of course, colour after lacquering stay the same).

As for progress, quite busy at the moment - producing complete units for pre-ordering donors :)

/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

The 810 used a cut & bended alu plate as stand, no? I liked that, but it had another fail because the closed stand blocked some ports.


(anyway, just my opinion, don't mind me as I'm in the market for another phone and neither this nor neo900 will tick all marks)

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Quick message...
I would be interested in having Neo900 (have already pre-ordered) with Black Aluminium replacement body. With connectors for external antennas, too... Pre-orders for full-body are still accepted, right? For how long?
And about logo on the back cover: is it limited to the area 'inside' the kickstand? Because a lighthouse, for instance, pictured around the camera flash-light would be... interesting. Just a question...
Thank you!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Nice to hear that :) Yes, they're accepted, at least since design freeze of whole body replacement (aka something like two-three months before I start manufacturing units that are directly going to pre-ordering people).

No, thank YOU :) The logo for donors/pre-orderers isn't limited to anything, as long as it's doable/feasible, and you're able to provide suitable 2D image of it in the format that I'll announce soon (still figuring out which one will be hassle-free for me, and accessible to non-CNC people at the same time - anyway, you can count on some variant of vector graphic, for sure. SVG should be safe to declare as convertible to anything I'll decide on).

I'll happily discuss details of personalization with everyone individually, so everyone can, always, ask me if some crazy idea is OK or a no-go. Apart from the points above, the only remaining rule is that implementing idea can't require enormous work from my side to apply it to the cover. All flat surfaces are "safe" to request engraved things on them. Curved ones not so, as it would require adding 3th dimension to engraving it, aka quite a hassle to implement - unless you grab sources from gitorious, fork, and code it yourself for 100% fit, then it can even be covered in 3D magic runes :)

Summing it up, I will LOVE to personalize pieces for people that helped/are helping to make it happen. Just keep it sane ;)

/Estel

Re: [Pre-Pre-Pre Announce]Black Aluminium replacement body & backcover for N900
 

Don't recall if anyone mentioned this, but I think not.

When I was initially thinking about whether to go with 'un-changed aluminum look' or the black one, my biggest thought was that the metal band around the screen would still be black, which to me would look unappealing.

But today I noticed that there is by now a LOT of generic 'white' body replacements for the Nokia N900, and they all have a fittingly silver-y looking screen-surrounding band. Here's one example of such auction, but you should be able to easily find more:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Housin...-/121433760971

Just thought I'd mention it here, in case someone was also considering an aluminum looking one but was put off by the screen metal band thing being black.