Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

They didn't say anything about their own core applications. I hope their e-mail client will be open source.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

The design is for a maximum of 9 covers at a time. It wouldn't really work to try downsize them further, and both vertical and horizontal flicks are already taken (for navigation and cover actions respectively).

There will most likely be a way to show what else is running, but this is not yet realized.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

How about if the ninth cover was replaced by one with "more..." on which, when clicked, launched a 'task switcher app' that can be scrolled and display all running apps?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Marc in the interview with JollaFr said about adding an additional page to display open apps and I would think that's the most desired solution.

After 9 apps the remaining end up on 2nd page and so on. It also gives you an option whether you want to minimize to 9 apps or to keep it at 4 apps which I honestly prefer much more on my N9 even though I've to scroll a bit more...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

From the running apps screen (= Multitask view = Home), they said they would add additional screen(s?) below. See the UX principles.

Marc Dillon in an interview with Jollafr.org:

Q: Can Sailfish run and display more than 9 apps at the same time in the multitask view ?

R: Marc Dillon and his team thought about it since the Slush, and they think that the easiest solution would to allocate new pages to display more applications, like in the application launcher pages. It is as simple as swiping from top to bottom to browse all the opened applications.

Edit : too late...
Edit 2 : Clarified my explanations

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Jolla avoids US market because of the patents mess. The hardware is going to be "gorgeous".

http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/03/jolla-ceo-interview/

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I knew it! They are working on the disc phone. Finally!

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Quite well-written article, TechCrunch does their homework pretty well. Personally I wouldn't read much into the "hw will be gorgeous" comment.
It must be competitive not just in terms of BQ/Design, if it's a top-end $ device, then the core specs need to at least be "bottom top-end".
Throw in 1-2 unique/compelling hw aspects + a competitive display, & it could start to gain a strong (albeit nascent) following...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

The article is quite good, except the part about assuming that Jolla / Sailfish is placed against Mozilla / Firefox (name wise). I think it's reading too much into it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Yeah thought that was a bit weird too, didn't think it had truly solid/factually-based foundation.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Generally, I have no brand loyalty.. but I do have loyalty to the one that sells me what I want. I'm not sure that qualifies as Stallman fanaticism so much as consumers wanting transparency and trust.

I'm pretty sure you may be right, but that doesn't stop me and other customers from demanding it, promoting it and then purchasing it when it becomes available and voting with our dollars to the ones that can do it without clearly hobbling things to corral us into the closed-source trap. When a company touts openness, however, they'd better not just talk the talk unless they're ready to walk the walk, too. That was Nokia's greatest mistake: Marketing to us with openness, and then selling us on the promise of more openness and then only making open-core that depended on close-source...and then finally trapping you in a closed-source and, worse, DRM-locked architecture and doing less and less open-source.

The final F*** YOU to previous and current customers was the choice to go wholesale Windows Phone. At least they FINALLY stopped pretending to care about open-source at all and I'm validated in my choice of jumping to Android where open-sourcing is ongoing and increasing, rather than decreasing and the closed-source is NOT a dependency for a fully-working OS (rather, usually, a dependency of the hardware... which is fine).

Is SailfishOS going to make closed-source (not necessarily hardware drivers) a hard dependency the way Maemo did all the way up to Harmattan? (Because that's already a non-starter for me and many others I've talked to.)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Thanks for danramos to bupm that post up...
I had not noticed it before;

I would like you to prove that, how for example Debian is not fully open?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Sailfish won't make closed source a hard dependency. That's the impression I got. We'll have to wait and see of course.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Last time we updated everyone about this, stskeeps was still very much planning on getting a response back to us.
He apparently had already done a fair bit towards it....
I guess he's put it on the back-burner because much more has been clarified since MWC...
For the last 1-2wk I haven't been following TMO at all, that'll continue till approx. Oct & is unlikely to change before then.

Would shmerl or anyone be happy to actively manage/maintain this initiative?
It could be kept as a ongoing thing, or be something with a end-game, your call.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

There was no formal response from Jolla. I'd say many questions weren't answered (probably because they can't answer them yet).

I can go over the list, but so far I'm not sure if any significant questions were clarified since the last time. I'll have limited time to do that as well, but I'll post any response from Jolla if and when they'll decide to answer.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

And where do u see debian on consumer devices???

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Go back and re-read your posting. Nowhere you say anything about consumer devices. You state exactly:

"Again nothing will be fully open in ANY OS. People should stop being so naive Stallman fanatics."

Just ANY OS as far as I can see...
Besides nothing wrong with a bit of RMS fanaticism, I have great respect for him.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Thanks Buddy,

Carsten's your man, I've pinged him a few times over the last few days*, but I've not had a response yet.
What HAS been cleared-up, now needs to be added to the Wiki that's referenced in the 1st post...
Then it can be removed from the Google docs, leaving only stuff that isn't yet cleared-up or addressed.

*Twitter's weird, 1 post was missing from the entire thread, hence the 1st link, 2nd link contains the remainder of the thread.
Final 1/4 of the thread relates to this TMO thread, but the entire thread's prolly still of interest to everyone.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'm reasonably certain you didn't say anything about "consumer devices" in your statements, but if you must press the issue: pretty much anywhere it's installed on consumer devices (usually laptops, desktops and tower computers). I suspect these "devices" are, in fact, owned and used by "consumers." Perhaps you want to revise your argument some more by specifying "stock" commercially sold devices? But now you would be splitting hairs pretty thin in a desperate effort to make your point. I could point out the old Zaurus, Yopi and Trolltech Qtopia devices as a few--ironically, didn't Nokia acquire Trolltech? Tsk.

Still, I know where you're coming from and I understand what you mean--if there are truly open architectures, it's not common enough. To my point, though, we should promote it whenever we see it and whenever it's done well in an open-source way. I believe these older open devices were just out long before it became ubiquitous for people to buy perfectly capable computers to stick into their trouser pockets and carry everywhere, the way we do these days. Now, we just need an appropriately capable and open operating system.

To juiceme's credit, there's nothing wrong with RMS fanaticism when the whole point is to promote trust and transparency for the benefit of the end-user and owner. Why wouldn't you want that?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Please don't continue that discussion, it's getting WAY off-tangent, there's other "general discussion" threads.
Stick to the original charter of this thread please, which is to drill-down & focus on: Sailfish(Jolla) Ideas/Qns, Concerns/Criticisms*
Document them, get them answered/resolved, document that, wash/rinse/repeat etc...

*based on known facts, or at the very least; well-informed inferences, but even then we shouldn't go there unless there's nothing else to knock-over

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Welcome back! You can't keep a good man down or away from TMO :)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I think you missed the earlier context to that discussion. It seems like a perfectly relevant discussion when we were just told that parts will remain closed-source. Just to refresh you, you may want to look up the term "open core", it's effects to end-users and then go back and pay careful attention to what they intend to do with Sailfish again.

Lastly, please try not to quell relevant debate by calling it irrelevant if you haven't been following along.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Just told? Most (if not all) of that stuff has been known longer than that, it's simple, they've said parts of their own flavor of Sailfish will remain closed; probably most stocks apps, + maybe some other bits of the uppermost layers. The rest will be open for others to use & re-implement in whatever way they choose, they're monetizing by licensing their flavor of Sailfish, but not just on the sw side, they're also planning to design/build hw, & license/sell that service. Of course, we need much more detail on all of that, & no doubt there's further twists & turns & variations, but that's the crux of it*, there's no point in speculating further until we have feedback, then we can analyze & formulate further; Qns/Criticisms/ideas etc.

Now I believe there's already Qns along all these lines in the docs**, if you think they currently aren't formulated clearly enough, or you think they should be broken down further, or you think you now have answers to some of them & would like to migrate them to the wiki, or you'd like to seek out those answers, then by all means do any that. I'm not trying to quell relevant debate, I'm simply trying to keep things "razor-sharp" focused on the intent of this thread, re-read my last post & understand what the purpose of the thread is, let me stress to you again as I did in my PM, it's nothing personal, it's just not helping with the purpose of this thread. At times I've been guilty of not sticking to the intent of this thread, as have others, I'm human & I'm fallible, but just because I lost focus & didn't request realignment earlier on, doesn't make it okay to perpetually keep it that way, I saw that it was no longer on course, & requested a realignment, that is all.

Please respect that, it truly, really, & honestly is... nothing personal.

*much of which is quite speculative itself, as it's a constantly evolving strategy no doubt
**if you can't see some of them, then by all means add them

I did ask to be chastised by users who see me posting any more @TMO, your post wasn't exactly chastising, but thanks for remembering. :)
I had hoped to be away by now... :rolleyes: I'm hoping shmerl & maybe one or two others can keep this thing going...
I still believe it can be a constructive thing, but it seems that's only going to be possible if one more people proactively manage it, rather than hoping that everyone does their little bit.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Soooo... now you're being impersonal? :)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Dont find better thread but there is a course 1 April lerning make sailfish apps checkout:

https://eliademy.com/sailfish-101

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Is it on-line course?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

peeps, i wonder if anyone askedJolla about Gmail's Exchange sync?

Since Google will pull its plug for Exchange protocol over Gmail around July...i wonder if calendar/contact/global address/push mail sync still possible?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

its seems so but not sure :/ got link from jolla on facebook...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

E-mail sync with IMAP should be expected. I'd expect them to provide CalDAV and CardDAV as well (it's a norm today), but they didn't directly confirm it yet.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

iianm, google may have plan to purge caldav/carddav too...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

... which would be another reason not to use google's services.

But given its legacy, I expect Sailfish to use Buteo or SyncEvolution for synchronization, so I guess at least SyncML should be there. Now is SyncML not that popular anymore. Why is that? It seems much more efficient to me and offers much more than just calendar and contacts. Even the N95 allowed for syncing cal/card/todos/sms and browser bookmarks, all using the same SyncML account.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Why should they? CalDAV and CardDAV are Internet standards. Google aren't stupid to reinvent the wheel. That's more Microsoft's cup of tea. Are you just speculating, or you've heard something about it?

They added it recently. Why should they suddenly drop it now?

http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2012/0...-contacts.html

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

the speculation has been around since they seem to be trying to push everything into google+, why not cal and contacts

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

http://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2013/0...-cleaning.html

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

This is weird. So they switch to their proprietary API? I'm not sure what it refers to when talking about developers only. What about users? Will CalDAV be accessible to the users of Google Calendar or not?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Google is becoming apple, but since they are a web company it could be worse

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'd say - don't use their calendar then. Choose any service which supports CalDAV. Just found something like this:

https://fruux.com/

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

If it's completely open*, available for others to use, & is better in some ways than caldav, then it's not necessarily a big issue...
New standards are often initially driven by one big co, & then gain wider adoption/acceptance in a open/transparent way, but I don't like the sound of the name "Google Calendar API".

If anyone has more info. about it all, we'd love to know what the real deal is....
If it's definitely not acceptable, then that's another thing that needs to be communicated to Sailfish via the docs, & the best approach outlined.
(they probably still need to support Google's new "standard" though -unfortunately)


*in the sense that it's steered by a group at arms length from googl, or at least with some sort of autonomy, & in a open/collaborative way.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So far I didn't find any details on the licensing of their "Google Calendar API". For what it's worth - CalDAV is already a IETF approved standard. This new thing - who knows.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

You can have your own implementation of CalDAV and CardDAV on your own server or whatever but the point of people is that they have grown into using Google's services and its perfectly reasonable for these people to ask for something similar on a OS they plan to switch to. After all iOS and Android users won't be having too much trouble, would they?

FWIW I don't use Google's services for such but asking people to switch to something else is not really a good idea. After all Sailfish is not a dead OS that needs work-arounds ;)