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-   -   Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99017)

Hensch 2017-06-22 15:21
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LameDuck (Post 1529473)
No, it simply isn't. Unless they release it next week (unlikely, unless I read the Jolla Statement wrong) they don't meet their announced time target (release to customers by the end of Q2/2017). Imagine a supplier who announced to deliver by the end of June comes to you one week before the due date and says: "Come on, don't be so impatient, I will tell you something next week anyways." Even if this comparison is flawed - for me todays statement is one more proof that they are unable to communicate professionally to the community.
To be serious, it would be sufficient to release a flash image for the X next week and, in my opinion, this would satisfy our demands. Ok, as they are talking about "further steps", I don't think they will do so. BUT: It's too early to complain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LameDuck (Post 1529473)
The people who are not satisfied are a minority by now. The big majority has turned their backs to Jolla and Sailfish a long time ago. The minority who is dissatisfied has every reaason to be so. There were so many setbacks in the last few years. I don't think I need to mention them, but missed timelines and bad communication to the community was an issue in most of them.
I am not involved in the refund disaster. I can understand the complaints regarding this but it's another story. Nobody knows how hard they are really working on that issue and I think they have to show this to the community every day and not every two months.

ka9yhd 2017-06-22 15:36
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoOppen (Post 1529472)
A professor of me once taught us what he learned after moving from northern Germany to the rhine area:

When he ordered printing of his scripts he got a delivery date confirmed by the printer. On the day the scripts were due he went to the printer to pick up his printed scripts. However, he only got a vague explanation about other more urgent matter and a new date of delivery.

What he learned was, that the first scheduled date is an optimistic estimation of a day where the printer expected to be able to name a more reliable date of delivery.

After the professor has learned this lesson he had quite a relaxed living in the rhine area.

Maybe one of the Jolla guys once lived in the rhine area ...
Nice story but its a lame excuse. If give someone your word on a delivery date and do not deliver on time then your word is meaningless.

JoOppen 2017-06-22 15:44
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka9yhd (Post 1529479)
Nice story but its a lame excuse. If give someone your word on a delivery date and do not deliver on time then your word is meaningless.
You are right, it is not an excuse, it is an attitude ...

meloferz 2017-06-23 01:42
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529475)
A week is nothing. We have soon waited 3 years. THREE years so I guess we can handle a week.

I'm not intressted in buying anything next week unless I'm a lucky random Refund winner in game of ...

Yeah. A week is nothing. They could atleast said a month. That would have been more of a challenge:D
Good for you that you're only waiting 3 years... I almost waiting 5 years for a phone that can be used here in Paraguay (South America) running fully Sailfish OS
with dalvik. Hope the the waiting for me will end next week 🤗

Enviado desde mi Xperia Z2 mediante Tapatalk

Dave999 2017-06-23 06:58
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meloferz (Post 1529501)
Good for you that you're only waiting 3 years... I almost waiting 5 years for a phone that can be used here in Paraguay (South America) running fully Sailfish OS
with dalvik. Hope the the waiting for me will end next week 🤗

Enviado desde mi Xperia Z2 mediante Tapatalk
3 years, 5 years. It's all the same. You might get a sailfish port if you have an Xperia X next week. I hope you will get what you hoping for but I doubt this port is production ready bundled with Alien. I think it's more of a glorified demo port.

Hope they charge some money for it to boost the random Refund roulette, but it's more likely to be free due to the basic qualities of the product.

Any way. Cool week ahead. 5 years and a week. How will you celebrate if they release a port for you?

meet.vino 2017-06-23 08:22
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Just wondering.. How much does exactly Jolla owe you?

Dave999 2017-06-23 09:13
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1529504)
Just wondering.. How much does exactly Jolla owe you?
Me? a reason to trust them.

(not sure about the exact amount 105 USD?)

benny1967 2017-06-23 09:52
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1529504)
Just wondering.. How much does exactly Jolla owe you?
They don't "owe" anybody anything. They said they might give away donations/gifts one day...

meloferz 2017-06-23 11:42
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529502)
3 years, 5 years. It's all the same. You might get a sailfish port if you have an Xperia X next week. I hope you will get what you hoping for but I doubt this port is production ready bundled with Alien. I think it's more of a glorified demo port.

Hope they charge some money for it to boost the random Refund roulette, but it's more likely to be free due to the basic qualities of the product.

Any way. Cool week ahead. 5 years and a week. How will you celebrate if they release a port for you?
Throwing to the trash my old android phone 🤗 hahaha

Enviado desde mi Xperia Z2 mediante Tapatalk

Ariadeno 2017-06-24 00:21
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529506)
Me? a reason to trust them.

(not sure about the exact amount 105 USD?)
Would you shut up and leave TMO forever if we gave you the money?

ka9yhd 2017-06-24 01:24
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1529509)
They don't "owe" anybody anything. They said they might give away donations/gifts one day...
If Jolla does not owe anyone anything, then why is there a refund program for the tablet?

And do not tell me it is out of the kindness of their hearts......

Dave999 2017-06-24 06:15
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadeno (Post 1529564)
Would you shut up and leave TMO forever if we gave you the money?
Probobly not since it would be strange if only I get the money and others won't/don't.

What you can do is to give the money to jolla and hope that they can afford to speed up the refund roulette game.

I guess you could also write mail to them saying that you want to donate your 2nd, that way someone else will get refunded and we can finalize the refund project faster.

robnas 2017-06-24 07:41
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Hooray, update on blog.jolla.com:
"Shortly also about the Sony Xperia X project, as we realize many are waiting for news about it: we’re working on the project and we will update you next week about the next steps."

So no news yet, it will come next week :) (so more or less what we knew already)

For Dave999:
"...about the remaining Jolla Tablet refunds – we are committed to it and we will be progressing on it in a pace our financial situation permits us to do."

"...start executing refunds every month the company makes positive cash flow from its core business...some of our tablet backers will get their refund earlier than others...To make it fair...refunds in a random order."

"I can assure you that this topic has been painful for everyone of us here at Jolla. My apologies on the delayed process..."

In a nutshell: they are committed to pay you and the rest back, as long as profit is being made. How long that takes: no one knows.

Ergo: the intention and planning of Jolla is clear now. Please don't post info about refunds in this topic, since it's offtopic.

Dave999 2017-06-24 08:09
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnas (Post 1529580)
Hooray, update on blog.jolla.com:
"Shortly also about the Sony Xperia X project, as we realize many are waiting for news about it: we’re working on the project and we will update you next week about the next steps."

So no news yet, it will come next week :) (so more or less what we knew already)

For Dave999:
"...about the remaining Jolla Tablet refunds – we are committed to it and we will be progressing on it in a pace our financial situation permits us to do."

"...start executing refunds every month the company makes positive cash flow from its core business...some of our tablet backers will get their refund earlier than others...To make it fair...refunds in a random order."

"I can assure you that this topic has been painful for everyone of us here at Jolla. My apologies on the delayed process..."

In a nutshell: they are committed to pay you and the rest back, as long as profit is being made. How long that takes: no one knows.

Ergo: the intention and planning of Jolla is clear now. Please don't post info about refunds in this topic, since it's offtopic.
Thank you for that info.

True, it might be off topic and I would happily discussing it an another thread dedicated for that subject. Infact, I did create another's refund thread but it was closed so until we have the freedom to discuss our subjects we have to take it elsewhere. Like this thread. But once jolla release the sw I guess it will be focus on that and less focus on Refund for a while.

Do you own an Xperia X?

nthn 2017-06-24 09:08
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka9yhd (Post 1529565)
If Jolla does not owe anyone anything, then why is there a refund program for the tablet?

And do not tell me it is out of the kindness of their hearts......
For the umpteenth time: there is nothing, legally, that would require them to refund a donation towards a failed project. It's a purely moral decision (although these morals may be influenced by business, as it makes them seem like they care more about their fans than other companies).

Now, let me just ask Unicef to refund my donations. After all, there are still poor kids in the world, so they didn't follow up on their promise.

pexi 2017-06-24 09:31
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nthn (Post 1529583)
For the umpteenth time: there is nothing, legally, that would require them to refund a donation towards a failed project. It's a purely moral decision (although these morals may be influenced by business, as it makes them seem like they care more about their fans than other companies).

Now, let me just ask Unicef to refund my donations. After all, there are still poor kids in the world, so they didn't follow up on their promise.
Yep my reaction was more like why are they still bringing it up and not just move on. Years have gone by already, they dont have much money to do it and they've moved away from hardware business to licencing. They must really want to do it. Respect to Jolla.

robnas 2017-06-24 09:37
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529581)
Do you own an Xperia X?
No, I'll wait what Jolla comes up with. If it's a Sailfish version without Dalvik, then they didn't create a worthy successor for the J1, so I'm not sure if I'll spend that amount of money for a just-not solution.
It's like buying a Ferrari with small/narrow wheels.

But who knows: At this moment I'm having a subscription with different telephone number from where I work and I can integrate my works email on an Android phone. I'm trying a Galaxy S3 at the moment, but that's not quite fast. The Experia could be an option.

Dave999 2017-06-24 09:41
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nthn (Post 1529583)
For the umpteenth time: there is nothing, legally, that would require them to refund a donation towards a failed project. It's a purely moral decision (although these morals may be influenced by business, as it makes them seem like they care more about their fans than other companies).

Now, let me just ask Unicef to refund my donations. After all, there are still poor kids in the world, so they didn't follow up on their promise.
Don't tell me you are seriously using that as argument. :confused:

I won't judge you. But I do think it's morally wrong ;)

robnas 2017-06-24 11:05
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529586)
Don't tell me you are seriously using that as argument. :confused:

I won't judge you. But I do think it's morally wrong ;)
Why not? I can remember about when giving money as a contribution for like indiegogo, it's not the same as you buy something (which I could agree with). I'm also not sure if you have the same rights regarding guarantee as when you buy something in a store or online (that's why I'm not too fond of indiegogo or other forms of crowdfunding.

Is it morally wrong: partly. It's just not the same as if you're buying something. You and others are saving money together to be able to make something. If it happens, by whatever reason, this fails, who's to blame? The organization/people who've organised it? But you were aware of saving money together and trying to produce something, with the risks involved (it's indiegogo, else the sales would have been done through the Jolla store).

Dave999 2017-06-24 11:09
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnas (Post 1529587)
Why not? I can remember about when giving money as a contribution for like indiegogo, it's not the same as you buy something (which I could agree with). I'm also not sure if you have the same rights regarding guarantee as when you buy something in a store or online (that's why I'm not too fond of indiegogo or other forms of crowdfunding.

Is it morally wrong: partly. It's just not the same as if you're buying something. You and others are saving money together to be able to make something. If it happens, by whatever reason, this fails, who's to blame? The organization/people who've organised it? But you were aware of saving money together and trying to produce something, with the risks involved (it's indiegogo, else the sales would have been done through the Jolla store).
I was talking about trying to help people who got absolutely nothing.

mosen 2017-06-24 11:54
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529574)
I guess you could also write mail to them saying that you want to donate your 2nd, that way someone else will get refunded and we can finalize the refund project faster.
I think they will again have some kind of form were you can voluntarily offer to not recieve the refund?
That's what i will do with the 2nd part of my wifes refund if asked.

But i could totally understand this guy being not so forgiving.

Sending an email propably will generate more work as necessary on Jolla side.

Also, why not revive this Tablet thread for refund discussion and return to Sony topic here?

Dave999 2017-06-24 12:08
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1529590)
I think they will again have some kind of form were you can voluntarily offer to not recieve the refund?
That's what i will do with the 2nd part of my wifes refund if asked.

But i could totally understand this guy being not so forgiving.

Sending an email propably will generate more work as necessary on Jolla side.

Also, why not revive this Tablet thread for refund discussion and return to Sony topic here?
yeah, hope jolla pick him early in the refund game.

True. move that thread to jolla tablet section and we are a go.

Excellent!

@Mosen. do we still have that google docs with all names to we can see the progress?

ka9yhd 2017-06-24 23:24
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529586)
Don't tell me you are seriously using that as argument. :confused:

I won't judge you. But I do think it's morally wrong ;)
Thanks Dave ya beat me to it.

Don't tell me you are seriously using that as argument. :confused:

Do not mind me as I am rolling on the floor laughing.....

kinggo 2017-06-25 07:47
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
talk.refund.org FFS :rolleyes:

HtheB 2017-06-25 09:48
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Please stay on topic guys.

jalyst 2017-06-25 14:23
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Dave keep Jolla Tablet Refund talk in one place, as suggested by other posters here's fine, stop spamming multiple threads:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=96826&page=3
I adjusted the thread title to something more in-line with what you're wanting to discuss...

jalyst 2017-06-25 14:45
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
I used wrong thread, correct one linked now...

Dave999 2017-06-25 15:05
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Jalyst. What's is happening? Do you have an Xperia X or what?

jalyst 2017-06-25 15:16
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529645)
Jalyst. What's is happening? Do you have an Xperia X or what?
No, sorry I do not, just had some reports for OT posting so was dealing with that...
But if you wish to continue talking about Xperia + Sailfish in this thread, you're more than welcome to.

Best Regards.

Dave999 2017-06-25 15:28
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1529646)
No, sorry I do not, just had some reports for OT posting so was dealing with that...
But if you wish to continue talking about Xperia + Sailfish in this thread, you're more than welcome to.

Best Regards.
Good. Is pretty useless! Save your money for some more highend devices.

Infact, I'm very interested in doing so. But not yet. I have one Gold and let me tell you. It's one bad device. Hope sail can can fix that. After all the other project jolla must complete.

A good prize for the sail port $115. Jolla need some money.

What day will we get this port. Thousday?

See you thousday in this thread. Release party!

Edit: Tuesday. Of course the Tuesday.

elastic 2017-06-25 18:27
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529647)
Good. Is pretty useless! Save your money for some more highend devices.

Infact, I'm very interested in doing so. But not yet. I have one Gold and let me tell you. It's one bad device. .
No, it's not a bad device! I don't know why you keep dissing the Xperia X - I know yours is making some touch related trouble but regarding the few complaints about that in the forums (I followed your links) it seems to be only a problem of very view devices - mine (a grey one though) doesn't show that behaviour and it's my second daily driver since April (still need two mobiles for two SIM cards for two countries...)
It's true, that it's not worth the price Sony asked for in first place (which mobile is ... ) but as they're available for less then the half now ... I got mine new (with damaged package and missing charger) for £150 back in April - decent camera, 32GB, SD, not too big ...

if Jolla gets the camera working properly and a newer Android runtime (drivers should be available as it's running nougat 7.1.1 and lineage) I'll be a happy sailor

would be even more happy if they release an image for the Z1 compact ;-) so I can reactivate it from the drawer and replace my Jolla1

Dave999 2017-06-25 18:38
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by elastic (Post 1529656)
No, it's not a bad device! I don't know why you keep dissing the Xperia X - I know yours is making some touch related trouble but regarding the few complaints about that in the forums (I followed your links) it seems to be only a problem of very view devices - mine (a grey one though) doesn't show that behaviour and it's my second daily driver since April (still need two mobiles for two SIM cards for two countries...)
It's true, that it's not worth the price Sony asked for in first place (which mobile is ... ) but as they're available for less then the half now ... I got mine new (with damaged package and missing charger) for £150 back in April - decent camera, 32GB, SD, not too big ...

if Jolla gets the camera working properly and a newer Android runtime (drivers should be available as it's running nougat 7.1.1 and lineage) I'll be a happy sailor

would be even more happy if they release an image for the Z1 compact ;-) so I can reactivate it from the drawer and replace my Jolla1
Yeah, its mostly the screen that is super bad. But also build quality not what I excpect from a device nowadays... bulky, but it's a cheap device so what can you excpect, right.

honestly, I don't understand why jolla targeted the basic X when they had so many other devices to choose from.

How much would you be willing to pay for a sail beta version without sonys cam and alien Dalvik?

£0, £50, $100, $200, $1000?

elastic 2017-06-25 20:08
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529657)
.

How much would you be willing to pay for a sail beta version without sonys cam and alien Dalvik?

£0, £50, $100, $200, $1000?
Nothing because I'll have no use for it - I still need a few Android apps for my daily business and if I can't run them I can't use the device on a daily base - and I won't flash the X with Sailfish if I can't use it anymore - I already have to many more or less useless devices with Ubuntu Touch, FFOS, WebOS and old Android versions in the drawer - sold all Maemo and Meego stuff though

If the Sailfish X won't happen I might flash Lineage to the BQ X5 I bought for 50 bucks two weeks ago and use it dual SIM, sell the Xperia X and keep the Jolla1 for remembering a great OS

taixzo 2017-06-25 23:35
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
I'm still waiting for a device which runs SFOS with working alien dalvik which works on USA frequency bands. Up till now I've been making do with a "powerful" sfos phone (OPX) and the Jolla 1 to run the three Android apps I need on wifi only. I'm really hoping the Xperia X will happen.

Dave999 2017-06-26 18:55
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
jolla needs to include play store if they want any users outside a few hundred fanboys. (Except finalize tablet project)

Basic OS functionality - Check
Known brand Xperia - Check
Services needed by users - NOoooo

Video, navigation, banking and payment, music, shopping, photo...jolla is nowhere when it comes to these areas and it's not easy, but it's crucial, more crucial than develop the OS.

One other way would be...
Instead of building a os for Putin or a Chinese version of sail, these money/devs should focus on building services rather than hacking some dedicated features in OS that no one will use, except a few. And to add extra badness to it. Doing it completely in the dark.

But nooo...

nieldk 2017-06-26 19:17
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Actually, I prefer to dump evil Android altogether

Dave999 2017-06-26 19:19
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1529706)
Actually, I prefer to dump evil Android altogether
That's not an option currently. If they want users that is. It's like serving Big Macs on a 3 star restaurant :D

By the way, named...Maaemo.

https://maaemo.no/menu

elastic 2017-06-26 20:10
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1529705)
jolla needs to include play store ...
Oh no, absolutely not - as far as we can avoid google services it should be done - an android runtime is brilliant and gives the possibility to work around missing apps with android ones - I know not all are running without play services but that shouldn't encourage people to install them - the point for BlackBerry and Sailfish is running apps without that stuff - if you tend to install playstore, playservices or more (like openGapps on lineage or another custom Rom) - you could even use Android from the beginning ...

juiceme 2017-06-26 20:12
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1529706)
Actually, I prefer to dump evil Android altogether
+1

Android (or any other OS that includes PlayStore / etc.) is not really an OS or service platform, it is just an endpoint of The Google Machine.
It is a honeytrap to lure people to give their life to the machine.

Dave999 2017-06-26 22:42
Re: Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices
 
Fine, We are happy without play store.

But how do you suggest that jolla should pay for the party? Leave the bills and run?


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