Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Really? We would never have noticed.

You are. The facts are staring in your face. You can keep covering your eyes and pretend not to see them but that does not make you a visionary. It just makes you silly.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Rather silly than say I'm right when I have no proof to back it up. Usually time reveals the facts so we just have to wait...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Which part of broken contract is escaping you? Jolla didn't pay - well, they couldn't - and yet they should be the ones selling the tablets? You're still overlooking the lack of payment by Jolla bit.

Jolla worked with this ODM, upgraded the screen, changes the USB connector. They worked together to get out the device, but when it came time to purchase from the factory what was agreed upon to be built, Jolla couldn't pay (for reasons we all know by now).

I cannot stress enough that as an owner of a company that has delivered products before, I will not allow the customer access to selling those things if they cannot pay me first. In fact, I cannot believe I'm still having to say this over and over...

No pay. No product. Broken contract to the manufacturer from the customer. No products to the customers. That's where we're at now. Plain, period.

The rest is either fluff pieces from people still holding out faith that something miraculous will happen or that for 300RMB more you can get Sailfish OS still on those tablets (found out this morning that part was not a joke, but there's no shipping off to Finland involved).

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

That stuff you keep saying makes sense if we were still in the state where Jolla is bankrupt and we're sitting here begging for our tablets. But Jolla has money, they've got enough to pay for the first lot of tablets, 540 more, and refund lots of backers. So where's your argument now?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

That question is up to Jolla to answer. Had they paid for them In time or even bought them back from Taobao, they would be in their shop now. Only Jolla can answer why they did not, no one else.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

No, the fate of the original production run is not relevant. I mean why can I not place an order for a Jolla tablet in the store right now? The official reason is that the components are no longer available, but I can buy a much older phone from them no problem.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Unconfirmed for the most part, but I'll list out in order as I've been told by the reseller:

• October or so was the start of the decline if not final straw for the ODM.
• Nope, these are ODM products that normally have Android on them by default. Jolla worked with the ODM to digitally sign Sailfish OS and flash them properly onto the devices.
• This part truly scares me and the open source version(s) that might make it will not have Alien Dalvik due to licensing issues. But by the manufacturer, it's quite simple.
• September/October

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You still do not get it, do you? Jolla is bullshitting you. End of story.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Those 600 or so tablets do not represent the total that were bought/liquidated to resellers. I think this stock was secured whereas more could not be.

I'll go out on a limb and state the following. Jolla isn't bankrupt now, but due to how they restructured, they're backfilling any and all creditors. The tablets being in another resellers hands means that they were "purchased" at least once from the manufacturer.

Okay... let's try this exercise. I built a doo-dad for a customer per request. For months, this customer kept saying that they'd pay me. After a while, and definitely after hearing about their financial shortcomings, I finally decide to rid myself of their requested doo-dad to a reseller that at least means I cover my costs and don't lose too much.

These doo-dads are seen online and folks are asking what happened and why can't they buy it directly from me. Well, three things would immediately come up: (1) I do not have the right to sell directly this doo-dad since it had a type of technology that requires licensing, (2) the branding on this device might incur a lawsuit since it's branded with their indicia and (3) I'd rather just be rid of the stuff and the reseller only has decided to sell to the country in which my factory is located and is not available to all.

As that manufacturer, I waited months with no communication and more importantly, no payment. I'd rather have the space and do my best to not lose any money than sit on top of inventory that might never sell.

As it stands, you lot are stating that you, as the manufacturer, would have done something different. I do not see what all you could have done. Hold off on an empty promise that Jolla might have money forthcoming? They neglected their bills for months, then went silent for months only to have a partial announcement come out and it looked gloomy. Sell the ****, I say.

It's no argument. It's an inconvenient truth. The factory had to sell or risk making a loss due to some customer's business not doing as well as I'd require (read: pay their bill).

I seriously have to doubt how many people have ever run a business if this is still an arguable point. Something was made, they didn't get paid, they cut their losses, customers are left out in the dark without a product. Clear cut to me.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Oh grow up.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yes, I understand that they sold the existing stock on to some bloke down the pub when things went bad, and it can't be recalled. But Jolla stated that they have the money to refund 6k worth of tablets now, so why aren't 6k tablets being produced with that money right now? That's a large run, and they could be taking tablet orders in the store to increase that number. The financial crisis hit when they were about to go into full production, so now it's resolved, why is the tablet still dead?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Could it be that money isn't the answer? Could it be that they will get out of hw deal even if they can afford it but wants to skip all the work with another hw product(shipping and support) and bet their last chance on sw and licensing which has been their goal all along?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

If you trust Jolla, the answer was given in latest communiqué and is "not all parts available anymore"!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Ahhh, and thats why Marc and the others left silent, they could not stand the obvious fraud against us backers.
Perfect Dave, you are on to something.
Not.

Situation is a total mess as it is right now.
Any plan of that sorts would have produced an outcome that would not hurt one party and make it the winner of some sorts.
Everybody loses = Nobody profits = No "qui bono" situation = no conspiracy.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yeah, that's where I started on this. In August/September they were taking pre-orders, and ramping up for full production, but now it can't be made due to discontinued parts? Still doesn't add up.

My best guess is that they are following up on an executive decision to get out of the hardware business after it's nearly killed them so many times. It may not be very profitable to distribute the remaining stock and refund the rest of the backers, but there's a whole lot less can go wrong than if they tried to finish the production, even now they have a finished product. Cutting their losses while they still have some investment cash left to push the software.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

We can be quite certain that components were ordered to build the devices and that they were manufactured (mind you that they already had difficulties getting all the needed components). Now the majority of the batch has been sold to Chinese retailer. It's not likely they can be pulled back from the market.

Why Jolla doesn't produce more tablets then? As per their own statement, the manufacturer doesn't have all the components and some of them are not available any more. Most likely alternative components would be available, but they would have to be sourced, tested, possibly some things had be redesigned etc. which would in best scenario be something like two months before the devices roll out if there are no hiccups. If there was a hiccup (like there have been many many times with this projects), there would be even more delays, blown budgets etc. IF the manufacturer would even agree to produce more for Jolla.

So, even if Jolla has some money, the only sensible decision is to call it quits to limit the damage already done and to avoid the risks involved in trying to continue already badly failed attempt. There are times when one simply has to admit the defeat and move on.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

So, you think they might have told us a little lie? :rolleyes:

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

In other words, whatever "official" reason Jolla give in their blog post is BS. Exactly what I was saying. It is staggering that some people actually still trust them and even ask others to grow up ;)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You guys will be so supriced when the russians are behind all this...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

It's not a question of trust, it's about assessing their motivations. To dismiss them as liars spouting BS is just childish. Think about things for a while, and we might be able to figure out what they'd like to tell us, but can't.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Oh come on, stop putting them in the position of the victims. They were "forced" to lie to us? Maybe if it were the first time but every single time for the past two years? Yes, one of us needs to grow up.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

oh oh, we are borderline to that "you and me" pointing fingers nonsense.

Could we agree that Jolla has a history of not telling the full truth for "unspecified reasons"?

Also interpretable as lying.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Jolla is selling old stock of phones which have been manufactured at the start of 2014.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Hardware is hard and parts are even harder:

http://z.svbtle.com/why-kickstarter-...always-delayed

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There is not much point arguing, Jolla is a small company, I guess they knew things were tough, they gambled and lost at the very end. As things were evolving I do not think it was sensible to be very open at that point, they did try hard to save it, they failed and together we lost too.

The question is what alternatives we now have?
is there any other tablet with similar specs that can be flashed to run SFOS? are AIGO x84 or N1 good candidates?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

They've said nothing of the sort. They have the money to refund half the money and possibly the rest in a year.

Half the money for a production run is possibly the right kind of margin but I can't imagine the relationship with the factory is great. I imagine they'd want the money up front, paying for screwing them around last time and possibly the price has gone up. It's almost certainly cheaper to just give a refund.

Secondly it's possible Jolla ARE telling the truth about parts not being available. The Jolla tablet is based on a year old Aigo X86 tablet with a different screen, back panel and USB socket. If they've stopped making the Aigo tablet there's no base donor tablet to attach the Jolla mods to.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Relationships with the factory is irrelevant as soon as Jolla decided to move on. The relationship with the backers is not...so I suggest they fully refund all backers as soon as possible if they want support.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

They said they had half the money for refunds, and they sold about 12k tablets on Indiegogo, didn't they? This means they have the retail amount for 6k tablets. That's what I was basing the 6k on.

Yup, this is plausible. The original deal would have been based on the assumption that sales would continue after the backers' run was completed, so these smaller runs would be more expensive anyway.

However, the production cost may have gone up but as the graph of the tablet money showed, they had quite a margin on the hw that was supposed to cover the software dev (but didn't). I think it's a fair assumption that they could get another 6k out of them for that money. Half the indiegogo money is still $1.4m.

Are you sure about the Aigo thing? I thought it was the other way around - Jolla sold their base design to Aigo to sell in China to raise a bit of cash. Didn't they originally make it available to chinese backers, then withdrew?

Either way, it could be technically true, but not a strong enough reason to cancel the whole thing unless you really didn't want to continue.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Guys
https://twitter.com/reviewjolla/stat...78859852025857

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

We don't really know which was first as design wise but we know that Aigo was released first to the markets. It is probable that both are based on the same Intel reference design and the same ODM is the final designer for both. And we know that Jolla wanted changes to the ODM's original design.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

First release to markets doesn't mean anything. The Jolla prototype tablet as demonstrated could have been turned around for production as an android tablet with a crappy screen almost immediately, if Aigo saw it there and approached them and/or the ODM. Sounds far more plausible to me than 'Jolla stole someone else's tablet a few months before it was on the market and passed it off as their own!!!'

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Stole? That is normal ODM business.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You really believe that someone stole Jolla's tablet? Wow. And you tell others to grow up.
That Jolla's tablet was based on Intel's reference design has been established a long time ago, BTW.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

No, I don't. That's what I was saying.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

The outer design of the Jolla/Aigo x86 tablet was mostly copied from old iPhone prototypes. This makes me think that Aigo x86 was first.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I'm almost sure those iPhone prototypes were not known and/or shown until after the release of the AIGO device. It's a standard ODM design that AIGO and Jolla used which happens quite a bit in China, lesser elsewhere.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Have you got any pictures of that design as s standard ODM design? I always thought it had too much similarity with the phone to have been designed elsewhere. The Indiegogo page explicitly states that it was designed in Finland too, so I'd assumed it was the same company who designed the phone.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Could be another cheeky little lie

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There are no lies on that page, only promises they couldn't keep. This bitterness and suspicion is getting you down, man. Let it go :)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet