maemo.org - Talk - Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments)

The prototype photos were out already in 2012. See this older post of mine for a photo and links.

Here's another article from 2012 with lots of different iPhone proto designs.

It's not necessarily a lie that it was designed in Finland. The customizations were probably designed there :)

billranton

2016-02-01 15:15

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by emev (Post 1497323)

It's not necessarily a lie that it was designed in Finland. The customizations were probably designed there :)

Could have been the same (scandanavian) designer that proposed the iphone one, then reused it after it wasn't taken on. If that design actually belonged to apple, you can be sure the Jolla tablet wouldn't have made it as far as it did...

I found the phone designer: http://infinity.fi/jolla/ . They don't mention the tablet, so only Jolla's chief designer could answer for sure. Like I said before though, they don't outright lie.

emev	2016-02-01 15:23

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497324)

Maybe you're right. I don't know the legalities related to prototype designs.

Anyway, it surprised me when I recently saw the old iPhone design, after having seen photos of the Jolla tablet, because they looked almost the same.

billranton

2016-02-01 15:26

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by emev (Post 1497326)

Anyway, it surprised me when I recently saw the old iPhone design, after having seen photos of the Jolla tablet, because they looked almost the same.

Definitely. It's still within the realms of coincidence by shape, but seems really unlikely given the matching colours. That said, it's still a really lovely design, if a bit prone to cracks without a case by the looks of that twitter thread earlier.

NokiaFanatic

2016-02-01 15:28

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Does it really matter who designed the thing? The project is dead.

emev	2016-02-01 15:33

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497327)

I like it, too!
We still have a chance to get one from Taobao :) Acutally, I'm playing with the idea of getting one with Sailfish (and a Lastu case, of course), if it's still available in the coming months.

tommo

2016-02-01 16:28

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497320)

There are no lies on that page, only promises they couldn't keep. This bitterness and suspicion is getting you down, man. Let it go :)

I'm certainly not bitter, and I really couldn't give shіt where it was designed!
I was suspicious about 6 months ago, and that suspicion turned into reality.

I'm only having a laugh, but I fear you are serious, so maybe you should let it go :)

mosen

2016-02-01 16:29

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

The investigation by simo brought some results!
Exclusive interview with Juhani Lassila on the china connection ;)

On the discussed Aigo:
"The similarity comes from factory design - smaller manufacturers save in expenses by selecting their design from an assortment offered by the factory. Jolla picked their hardware, colors, and of course added their unique software to differentiate for Finnish design."

And on taobao tablets with sailfish:
"Officially these devices do not support Jolla Store or updates, as they are not sold through official channels," says Lassila."

http://reviewjolla.blogspot.de/2016/...-in-china.html

Now, this wants me to buy on of those chinese-sailfishs and try "OFFICIALLY not supported"!
Sounds like an invitation :D

Dave999

2016-02-01 16:33

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

are we blaming the designer today for this scam?

Why no invitations today...its feb

pichlo

2016-02-01 16:38

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497283)

No, I don't. That's what I was saying.

My sincerest apologies, then. I misunderstood.

Dave999

2016-02-01 17:09

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

What's the positive suprices Jolla was taking about? A half refund? :D

emev	2016-02-01 17:11

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1497338)

The investigation by simo brought some results!
Exclusive interview with Juhani Lassila on the china connection ;)

Interesting, thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1497338)

On the discussed Aigo:
"The similarity comes from factory design - smaller manufacturers save in expenses by selecting their design from an assortment offered by the factory. Jolla picked their hardware, colors, and of course added their unique software to differentiate for Finnish design."

So, it's almost what we were saying here: some Chinese factory "was inspired by" the iPhone prototype's design, then provided that for the Aigo and Jolla tablets, and the companies customized it (-> Jolla's Finnish design).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1497338)

And on taobao tablets with sailfish:
"Officially these devices do not support Jolla Store or updates, as they are not sold through official channels," says Lassila."
...
Now, this wants me to buy on of those chinese-sailfishs and try "OFFICIALLY not supported"!
Sounds like an invitation :D

Yes, it's interesting if they can/will block those devices, or whether the Taobao tablets will work identically to the official ones.

billranton

2016-02-01 17:13

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1497339)

are we blaming the designer today for this scam?

Why no invitations today...its feb

It was some delicious speculation on the relationship between the Aigo and the Jolla, and how that may have influenced the parts availability excuse, as the Aigo has also been discontinued.

My next thought is if a backer buys a Taobao Sailfish, then it's reasonable for Jolla to offer store support for it as a gesture of good faith. What would this involve? Some sort of key in the efi vars?

mosen

2016-02-01 18:02

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Thinking about the pros and cons of getting a chinafish, i need to turn around on my previous statement.

As eager as i am to check them out, wouldn't it be cool if we could start some kind of ban towards the chinafishes so they are never sold and then much later offered to jolla for a much cheaper price?

billranton

2016-02-01 18:13

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1497352)

Thinking about the pros and cons of getting a chinafish, i need to turn around on my previous statement.

As eager as i am to check them out, wouldn't i be cool if we could start some kind of ban towards the chinafishes so they are never sold and then much later offered to jolla for a much cheaper price?

That was my first thought, but I think they'd be sold off as android before that happened. I don't think the scumbag can be beaten.

gerbick

2016-02-01 18:14

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497316)

Have you got any pictures of that design as s standard ODM design? I always thought it had too much similarity with the phone to have been designed elsewhere. The Indiegogo page explicitly states that it was designed in Finland too, so I'd assumed it was the same company who designed the phone.

February 9, 2015

Note: Same camera, back and speaker location

More pictures... same date.

Some key differences... processor, screen, USB connector amongst other small changes (ex. color).

The word "designed" is probably pretty loosely used here to be honest but the modifications are enough different from the Aigo x86 design. I cannot locate the ODM responsible for that design - I swear I had it.

tommo

2016-02-01 18:20

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1497352)

I think it would be cooler if jolla gave their blessing for us to go and buy them and help get sailfish on them.
At the end of the day the more sailfish devices out there in people's hands, the better for Jolla in the long run.

vitaminj

2016-02-01 18:34

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497324)

I found the phone designer: http://infinity.fi/jolla/

Oh that's really disappointing that they had to partner with another company for industrial design.
I always assumed that the interesting but relatively lacklustre design (and slightly naff components) was due to an ODM rush around the time of changing the chipset but that they still had all the people who made the beautiful N9 on staff.

Last ditch hope we'll see something interesting from Jolla/Intex at MWC...

billranton

2016-02-01 18:39

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

They need to open up the Sailfish licensing mechanism to any self-installed device. I could see why they didn't when they were still in the hw business, but now it seems pointless not to.

mosen

2016-02-01 19:27

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

HAHA, if these numbers are correct, there is not much to ban :p
Concidering some of the sellers offer them since our first find end of November... I sold equal amount of sea horse sushi like "JustBig Amoy Shop" sold tablets
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...3s2u7C_r3azHg/

eekkelund

2016-02-01 19:30

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1497355)

.........
More pictures...
.......

Their marketing team can really do their job. :p

veeall

2016-02-01 19:33

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

I guess they don't really have the money to refund nor to pay to tablet manufacturer, but going for refund buys them more time. And me, with Jolla phone sitting idle can't have any more interest in their os than to occasionally update the phone. ...or until an intex or some other phone comes out with good specs featuring amoled or another high quality display.

mosen

2016-02-01 19:39

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by eekkelund (Post 1497368)

Their marketing team can really do their job. :p

I could give them little advice to make it a bit more obvious!

http://mosushi.net/misc/gottablet.png

Dave999

2016-02-01 19:49

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

would it be possible to take sailfish ui , use cutebot/stskeeps, deploy on the Chinese Jolla tablet with android?

velox

2016-02-01 20:03

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1497372)

would it be possible to take sailfish ui , use cutebot/stskeeps, deploy on the Chinese Jolla tablet with android?

Having just found and read stskeeps' slides, I'd say… nope.

Well, who knows, stskeeps himself might be able to using inofficial knowledge (read: magic. this guy is a magician, that's what's up). You and I won't. My best guess is he won't as well, though. ;)

billranton

2016-02-01 20:07

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

I'd love some more information on this. From the scraps I read on here, I gather there's some sort of signature on each official Jolla device that gets it access to the store. Without it, it's just like a community port. No store, no dalvik, no updates.

Dave999

2016-02-01 20:57

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by velox (Post 1497374)

Well, what if we transfer our refunds to stskeeps?

We could set up a small team :D

ZogG	2016-02-01 21:07

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

It's seems to be like Red Hat business model.

strongm

2016-02-01 21:40

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497316)

The Indiegogo page explicitly states that it was designed in Finland too, so I'd assumed it was the same company who designed the phone.

And Jolla have been pretty up front about this - they have stated that the 'design' they talked about involved the colour, the the quality of the materials used in some of the components, and some modifications to the base design.

You'll have to hunt for the specific online references where they state this (as I no longer have them), but they were certainly in official Jolla posts/blogs/tweets, mostly from Juhani Lassila

strongm

2016-02-01 21:47

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497320)

There are no lies on that page, only promises they couldn't keep. This bitterness and suspicion is getting you down, man. Let it go :)

Jolla have admitted that their 'design' was effectively limited to colour and material choices (plus some minor hardware changes, such as the USB connector and a change in display once they discovered how poor the base component was)

Stskeeps

2016-02-02 06:10

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitaminj (Post 1497360)

Oh that's really disappointing that they had to partner with another company for industrial design.

Why wouldn't you partner with a company that consisted of people that have made some of the more iconic industrial designs around Nokia in the past?

To be precise though, Jolla1 ID was actually a very strong collaboration process between Jolla and that company, not just "deliver us a shiny ID"

eekkelund

2016-02-02 07:26

Re: TabletGate 2016

Jollas blog post was updated. See FAQ https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/

billranton

2016-02-02 07:50

Re: TabletGate 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by eekkelund (Post 1497409)

Jollas blog post was updated. See FAQ https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolla Blog

As these are not official Jolla devices, we can’t be sure what changes have been made to HW/SW. These devices might not receive software updates, and Jolla Store might not be used on them.

*might* is interesting here. Would it be fair to assume that if they're unflashed from the factory, then they'll work with the store, dalvik etc? If they've been flashed to Dalvik and back again, then no. Then there's another question begging here - in that case, how can I get a Store supported Sailfish image? Ok they can't give a warranty on the hardware, but surely that's not the end of the story? Surely if they can do that, they they can support community ports, like the fairphone 2.

billranton

2016-02-02 08:53

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Great interview with Juhani Lassila here, including definite details about the Finnish design :)

http://reviewjolla.blogspot.ru/2016/...-in-china.html

Peccelius

2016-02-02 09:08

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497418)

Great interview with Juhani Lassila here, including definite details about the Finnish design :)

http://reviewjolla.blogspot.ru/2016/...-in-china.html

From comments:

Quote:

Harri Hakulinen2 February 2016 at 10:22

Juha, in our understanding there should be less than 400 tablets sold by our ODM to those guys that are selling them e.g. on Taobao. But that is of course what has been told to us, and we can't know what has happened between our ODM and some 3rd parties ..

In worst case some of those tablets are not really Jolla tablets, but leftovers of Aigo tablets or even something else. And as we have explained, Aigo tablet is quite different beast, most likely Sailfish OS would NOT even boot on that device.

rcolistete

2016-02-02 10:04

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

About the Jolla "positive surprise", it was not announced, but there will be one :
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-m...log.html#l-209

Quote:

15:01:35 <pascalstein> jlassila: What about that "positive surprise" that was mentioned in the new year blog pst
15:01:49 <jlassila> Well good question!
15:02:16 <jlassila> We have something up our sleeve yes, but we just didn't get it into this communication.
15:02:29 <schmittlauch> jlassila: have all invitations to shop already been sent out?
15:02:30 <jlassila> pressure to get this out was too big to wait.

pichlo

2016-02-02 10:11

Re: TabletGate 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1497412)

*might* is interesting here.

Common marketing language. They "cannot guarantee" anything that does not come directly from them. We have heard the same about third party batteries. All we need is one brave soul to try it and confirm it works or not.

billranton

2016-02-02 10:18

Re: TabletGate 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1497432)

Yeah, that's good. If the tablets required some sort of activation from them after the factory, then they wouldn't have said *might*, it would have been *definitely not*

Dave999

2016-02-02 11:51

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Anyone wants to bet against tablest being shipped during February?

pichlo

2016-02-02 12:00

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1497451)

Anyone wants to bet against tablest being shipped during February?

Wet - wetter - wettest.
Table - tabler - tablest? :D

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