maemo.org - Talk - Let's talk Nokia stock!

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Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1202768)

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php...1&d=1336150958

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...e_1487504c.jpg
Mission accomplished?!?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1203221)

When I say dumbed down OS is due to removed interesting features usually found on previous OS (mobile or not), even when there were a lot less hardware resources. For example, EPOC 32 OS, from 13 years ago, is a lot better in stability and multitasking than almost all current mobile OS.

Yet... EPOC isn't actively being developed. That sucks, but needs to be different, and almost a decade+ later, those machines are still running. You and I both know that's no longer going to be the case with our present generation of OS/machines.

Quote:

If the majority of people buy some type of a car, or support a soccer team, etc, I am not obliged to do the same.

But support will be there if there's success. Case in point, Maemo.

That's the issue.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...mzGGvtVSV2dygg
Don't you worry guys, I know a way out.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1202936)

But that also kind of proves the point, that "enforcing" policy, the way multitasking has been implemented in Android, is better.

It is your opinion, it is not a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1202936)

We know programmers are lazy, and there is a vast forest of information and things and standards and good (tm) practices to remember when coding to some sophisticated system like for smart phone.

We have had problems also in Maemo, where developers "forget" to react to the situation when application goes background. Those kind of programs have ended up to the stable distribution though and have raised problems because of extra battery or RAM consumption.

Sorry, I prefer some "lazy" Maemo developers than the Android & iOS lack of real multitasking. I have many tools on my N810, N900 and N9 to look at CPU, RAM, network usage, so if some software has problems I uninstall it and report the problem to the community.

Since from my Psion Revo+ (EPOC 32 OS) days, I have the freedom to leave a calculation (programmed in OPL, Yacas, Python, C++, Maxima, etc) running for many minutes, even some hours. It is my problem if I decide to make observational cosmology calculation run in my N9 for 10 days.

I prefer the freedom of Maemo/MeeGo. I prefer the Maemo/MeeGo community. That is it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1202936)

As I wrote in the latter part of the post you quoted, Android style of guiding developers is enforcing one and overall is beneficial to the end user. Generally people are happier if phone is fast responsive and some lazy programmed applications do not run at all then in the background, than having applications which drain battery, RAM and other resources in the background for vain.

What it comes the mentioned (non-confirmed?) web-browser TAB:s reloading or PDF-viewer starting always from the page one when brought from background to the foreground in the Android system, there are obvious bugs in those programs - lazy or novice mobile programming again.

Oh, yeah, the Android default web-browser has the reloading problems... The Adobe Acrobat PDF Reader (where all the developers are lazy ?) also shows the 1st page of the document after being suspended. I repeat : these problems happen not in 100% of cases, but in some 10-20% of cases when there are other (heavy) softwares open.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1203226)

Every Android user I have personally asked has experienced the same simple problems that I've cited, using Android 2.2, 2.3, 3.2 or 4.0. Problems to read a document or a site, to watch a Youtube movie, after switching to other softwares for some time and coming back.

Count me in. This was a real chilling discovery.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1203124)

And that's the issue. In iOS, if you register a background process, that process can only run for a maximum of 10 minutes (WTF?). If ICS registered background processes don't have time limits, and it appears that they don't, that's a big difference.

Yes, maximum of 10 minutes as background process ! Unless your software is in some 5 categories and depending on Apple approval.

Some good reading about (fake) multitasking of iOS & Android :

http://fupeg.blogspot.com.br/2010/06...titasking.html
http://speirs.org/blog/2012/1/2/misc...titasking.html

Ok, I liked the term : Fast App Switching. Android, iOS and WP7 deserve it...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1203236)

Oh, so not always.
I also have problems because the permissive multitasking with N900. I use FM-radio alot, almost daily. I like to surf on the web at the same time while riding a bus. Quite often when using a news portal, I tend to get 2 – 4 windows open and then FM-radio is swapped out. Also if I try to take a photo while listening radio, often FM-radio is swapped out and stops. Sometimes N900 becomes quite unresponsive. I'd rather have web-pages swapped out than FM-radio.

I've tried the same use case with Galaxy Mini quite much during the xmas break. No problem, although I had web pages open, FM-radio listening and camera. Radio did not get swapped out nor failed to play. The device keeps going being responsive.
Galaxy Mini does have 128 MB more RAM than N900 though, but that was not the reason it worked because I also opened much more web-windows.

We cannot expect a normal smart phone user to use top or similar programs to monitor what happens in the system to make sure it is fluent to use the device.

Android could have a developer-switch, when activated would turn into permissive multitasking mode with a warning. BUT, if this would lead to "lazy"-applications which would rely user to run it always in this developer permissive multitasking mode, it would be a bad thing and would harm the "ecosystem".

N900 was not and is not suitable for a "normal" smart phone user partly because the "real" permissive multitasking. Plain user would not accept the device going unresponsive so often, but would think the device is broken somehow. For us who know what is happening and why, it doesn't matter so much and we can try to avoid the situation by not starting too many processes.

If Nokia would sell Samsung Galaxy S3 type of hardware, which would have PureView-camera, and OS would be (community driven) Cyanogen Android with Qt-support included; I think most of the t.m.o users would be happy, and at least Nokia stock owners because that kind of device would sell alot, tens of millions.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1203270)

... because that kind of device would sell alot, tens of millions.

And that brings us back to the thread. That is the main issue, Nokia not being able to create kick *** hardware that sells tens of millions. They have PureView on two devices now, the 808 and one prototype Lumia something.

They could, but they didn't and they don't and there is no sign of them doing it in the future. Nokia has lost all common sense. They literally don't deserve to keep on going much longer.