Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

He paid into a crowdfunding site and then got stroppy when things went south. Fundamentally misunderstanding that crowdfunding is a risk and the project owner will try to do what they promised, but problems inevitably happen. He's now clutching onto one clause in the IGG terms and another misunderstanding of how software/product development happens in a (successfully) opportunistic attempt to get his money back by representing Jolla as maliciously negligent.
If I were the person at Amex dealing with his complaint I would have told him to get lost, but luckily for him, someone less technically-inclined processed his claim.
He got his cash back. Amex will somehow take money back from indiegogo who will somehow take it back from Jolla, causing problems for both indiegogo and Jolla.
He's probably blacklisted himself from ever using indiegogo again too given his backdoor money-retrieval, rather than waiting for the normal resolution almost everyone else is getting.

No, when I'm in the same (bad) boat as a load of other people, I don't try to get preferential treatment.

This bit? (look, I can cherry-pick too!)
Which is what they're doing. But you want your refund faster at the potential expense of everyone else. Good on you.

I think he's trying to suggest that I'm some kind of elitist metropolitan snob and felt the need to insult me back as I insulted him. Shots fired. 1-all.

Nah, tuck in. I'm having some chocolate and salted caramel small batch hand-popped artisan popcorn, because I'm from London of course.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You are right, but again — you are wrong.
Yes IGG is a crowdfunding site and you could not expect that final product will reach you. But then what make a difference between me or anyone opening some project, getting money and not getting the product to customer and ran away with money.
There are a lot of scams project there (ubuntu tablet from some lady was discussed here a lot — as an example). I think the big difference between actual project is intentions and communication. Jolla delayed product for more than a half year without explanation and no communication. They had difficulties multiple times and i think they had enough information to know that it might blow, but they decided to tell that everything is ok and keep promissing soon, till the balloon popped as it usually happens in those situations.
Moreover he tried to communicate with them regarding refund, which in most projects even if they successful is normal procedure if you changed your mind and he got no answer. I think sometimes it's "too late" and in this case it was "too late" for Jolla to announce refund, which is still only promises and even in this promise they not gonna refund all the money straight away.
Meanwhile he lost money and time, as well te value of those money is changin all the time and getting refund more than a year after(if getting at all) is not the best option for a lot of people, especially if it's month salary for most of them in most cases.
Jolla could easily communicate with him and clear the situation but they decided to push him away and he had nothing to do. It's his money and he wanted to get them back, so he fought for himself.
Like in most relationships the communication and mutual respect is very important key so succeed and to build trust and cooperation.

As of your example of what would you do if you would work in Amex — thanks god that you are not working there. This attitude is actually used in a lot of companies and thus the world currently in the situation that major companies screw the "little guy" over again and again. And you should understand that Jolla is not just some guy from street trying hard to get home made project and thus it's really different from another crowdfunding project.
There is no white and black here. Otherwise they could send you a brick and if you ask for money back - they would tell you that it's crowdfunding and you can't expect anything from it. So where is the line?

Anyway, good day and awesome weekend to you mate.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Dude said he was out as soon as he got his money. He's got it. Please just let him go in peace so we can be done with the tirade.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

the ugly thing is...
everyone is right here in this fiasco..
or rather everyone is right to a point...
everyone most certainly is completely justified (to a degree) in their view / stance / approach to the situation.

Everyone is justified and right...
everyone that is..
except for Drekkie...

Oh man...
470 speculative pages ..
it ain't ending...
Not for a long time...
This thread seems to have taken up a life of it's own ...
I think I saw it the other day at my bank asking a rep. about stock options....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpv5kFMcq8I
Except

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yep, onwards and upwards. Sailfish is at a crossroads, let's help it succeed!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I would love to, let's hope they have something exciting for us all to buy at MWC! In a week and a half (aka soon)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I couldn't disagree with you more completely!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I'm not. :-)

After being underwhelmed by the phone there was no way I was being a crash test dummy for the tablet.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Me neither, riding above such a thing as a thing as fiasco. I got 999 problems but a tab ain't one.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Why not? It is fun to be a test dummy :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Those 999 problems begin with Dave

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

For an untrained eye it might looks like that...but if you read between the lines you will learn that the problems started with Marc Dillon...walking up the stairs, through the door...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

LOL. Geezers need excitement!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Up north salted caramel is just called butterscotch.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

So... wait. We're arguing amongst ourselves today?

http://gerbick.com/images/popcorn.gif

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

What do you mean, 'today'?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

The arguing was yesterday.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Oh cmon it is over, will you guys ever realise this facts?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Are you a fat lady?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Am in Leeds, so normal salty popcorn for me haha

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

What preferential treatment? Are you high? I contacted Amex because it is my right to call my CC institute in case when some company is not delivering what they've convinced us for entire year to be delivered... BTW I don't actually "call" other people for their decision of sticking with Jolla, correct?

Mutual satisfaction? LOOL. I have contacted them 24 times, and every time they refused to deal with me. Every time, when I asked for tablet they implied that it will be delivered. When I asked for a refund, they gave me two ridiculous options, and after that they've revoke that (this actually shows their intention, that they had no willingness to "resolve" dispute...). Do I need to carry on with all details? I do hope that you understand where this leads to.

Actually you said it all about your character. No further comments from my side.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yeah, you are right. He did contact me, and I believe I gave him enough information so he can decide if he want to contact his CC issuer to get his money back. Again, I do not encourage anyone to do the same, it is totally up to them whether they decide to stick with Jolla, wait for them to (if they ever) issue them a refund, donate that money (that they so happily implied in their blog post) or whatever...

cheers.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Wonder why your situation is different. ?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I would give you a thousand thanks just for that sentence if I could. If only everyone behaved that way. Not only in Tabletgate but in every aspect of life.

Plonk!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Not cool to say something with a fake quote.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Maybe you both should take your pants off and kiss each other...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

More cool than saying "Yeah, i got my money back. But you shouldnt"

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Why so serious? Relax. You got the money.

I think you all need to rethink why you arguing? I don't really see why :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yeah. Becouse then it's your words. You might not agree. But still the posters words. That is atleast my view which isn't the law but maybe it should be :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Did you know?

Selfish is a Japanese restaurant in Copenhagen ;)

http://www.selfish.dk/

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yes, sorry, didn't mean it in an offensive way. Just that the bulk of what he said was the last drop to plonk him. Is the amended version better?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Let me guess. Do they... sell fish? (Fnar fnar. :D)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

He didn't say that. What he said was that he would leave it up to others to decide for themselves what they should do.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

No, that's effectively the situation that his actions are bringing about. Everyone knows that Jolla's financial situation is tight, and if everyone tried at once to get their tablet money back in this way, the company would default on the debt and most would get nothing. The best way for everyone to get a refund is to wait for the announced plan to unfold. Every person who forces a refund through their cc company, makes it a little less likely that everyone else will get their refund.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Which is why I agree with vitaminj and condemn prometheus's actions.

But marxian is right, prometheus did say exactly, "I do not encourage anyone to do the same, it is totally up to them whether they decide to stick with Jolla, wait for them to (if they ever) issue them a refund, donate that money (that they so happily implied in their blog post) or whatever..."

In other words, "it's up to you whether you want to play with everyone or be selfish and inconsiderate like me."
Not, as nieldk implied, "only I can be selfish and inconsiderate, screw everyone else".

If I am misinterpreting neildk's words, then I apologize.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yay! We're arguing again!

http://gerbick.com/images/popcorn.gif

No seriously folks... there's no need. We should be able to commiserate and hopefully find a better way to expend our energy. But that's my childish hope for a group of obviously intelligent people...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

No more arguing. Let's conclude that Jolla is scammers and a company we can't trust until all are fully refunded.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Sorry, Dave, I can't agree with that. Not all of that anyway.
A company you cannot trust? Definitely. Scammers? I don't think so.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

What do you call a company that set up a webshop, selling stuff they don't have. Deliver nothing. Payback nothing, not even communicate to those customers?

In my country it's scam, fraud or somewhere in between :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

How about we agree that you're instigating **** and above all this was yet another crowdfunding attempt that unfortunately went south? It happens.