Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I won't argue with that.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Nope, wrong conclusion. Jolla is a start-up company that, like the vast majority of startup companies, did not manage to achieve its initial goals. They aimed a bit too high, and ran out of money before they could hit their mark.

In short: no scam. Just failure, plain and simple.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

So how can we trust them next time they planning to do something?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Do they actually have a next time? Their business model has essentially been proven false over the last few years -- despite the splash initially made by the tablet project, I haven't seen the kind of interest by cell phone consumers (and especially cell phone manufacturers) in alternatives to Android that Jolla was looking for. With their focus on easy-to-use UI gestures and pretty Ambiances, they were explicitly trying to create a mass-market product, but the mass market doesn't seem to be buying it.

If they were a different kind of company, they might have been able to market their own devices to the kind of folks we saw on Indiegogo, and remain a going concern that way. (After all, that effort showed that a device running an OS like Sailfish, even with sub-par hardware, could pull in millions of dollars.) But they set themselves up as a direct competitor to Android, and that just isn't working out.

Jolla can't run its current business plan just on the income from Intex alone (assuming the Intex project still exists). And I don't see Sailfish on startup devices (like Fairphone or whatever) providing much income either; certainly not the kind of income Jolla might have gotten from a mass-marketed handset.

So, here's the thing -- Jolla, as it is, just can't afford to put out new hardware. It wanted to start licensing its software to the big-name handset producers, but those guys just aren't biting. From my point of view, I can see only two possibilities: it needs to change its business plan in a radical manner (to pique consumer interest in a completely different manner), or it needs to wrap up operations and fold.

I don't know exactly what the latest round of investors are looking for, but if they're hoping Jolla will succeed using the same business plan they started with, Jolla will simply end up in the same place again in a few months: bankrupt.


So yeah, I say Jolla will only have to worry about consumer trust if they ever reach a point again where they are looking for new consumers...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Noone is acting selflessly in this. Everyone has their own reasons for deciding whether or not to pursue a refund. Anyone who claims to be selfless is simply confirming that they are not.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

One question on-topic:

If most of Jollas money in 2015 went into developing Sailfsih OS and fit it for tablet i still wonder about 2 things.

Whats up with the split screen (Perk 2) and what has come to the partner space. If i remember right it should have been an option for partners or a space for an app accesible via swipe. For example Deezer i think they showcased last year in Barcelona.

So no tablet for everyone - no split scren for the 121+480 and no partner space?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I really can't see Jolla attempting their own hardware again, nor any sort of crowdfunding. Personally, I think they realised how damaging it was back in the autumn, and that resulting in a few founders leaving.

So I don't think you'll be asked to trust them again for a physical product delivery. They're asking OEMs to trust in their OS now, which is a much less risky proposition. A pretty awesome one really. They'd be *fools* not to take them up on that crazy deal.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yeah, no need to put something else to market. Better to die trying to payback the backers...Go out in style!

Of course, its possible to knock android as the top dog OS for mobile devices. The future will prove that. Jolla didn't had the skill, the timing, the luck.

yeah, jolla ignored the stretch goals. Just assume it was fake to get your money. They spend money elsewhere.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You know, Dave, you're completely right! Jolla did scam you, just to get your money. They didn't even try to create the products they described in the Indiegogo campaign; instead, they sat back smoking cigars and drinking margaritas, watching as the bucks just rolled in...

Really, I can't understand why Jolla couldn't complete the stretch goals at the same time as they were cancelling contracts and laying off employees. It just boggles the imagination. ;)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Now you are talking!

Double margarita coming right up.

While you are slightly sarcastic, ironically you are possibly not far from the truth. Just remove the smoking and mags.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

The first stretch goal was larger SD card support. That one was done, though with ext3 support instead of exFAT, by popular demand.

The split screen is last mentioned on the roadmap in August:

So on that information it would be sensible to assume that didn't get past the design stage before it all went pete tong. At the last mer community meeting (which are increasingly turning into Jolla news days) they said they weren't done with reorganising the roadmap after losing so many people, so I guess we just have to wait and see. I should imagine it's definitely still on the to-do list though. Jolla don't intend to abandon support for tablets just because the Jolla one is finished. Sailfish now supports many different sizes and resolutions.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

By popular demand? Wow, they must have acquired the distortion field generator discussed a few pages back after all ;)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

It was quite clear at the time:

https://together.jolla.com/question/...#post-id-67564

https://together.jolla.com/question/...put-is-needed/

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yeah, actually, you are for once correct. I am inconsiderate guy when it comes to companies like Jolla who were taking us for a fools for complete year now, also for companies that pretend that they are a startup while they have years of experience behind them (let's not forget that they were Nokia engineers once). And also don't give a crap about comments from smug people like Picho here. And yes, I am totally happy that I've got my money back....

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

If you are also asking me if I would feel bad that Jolla goes bankrupt? Absolutely not. Everyone is responsible for their actions and by the look where it got them, they did it by them selves. There are some hardcore Jolla lovers here but reading comments from other blogs, forums, etc, there are much more unsatisfied customers/backers/fans... So I wouldn't be so surprised to see them asking for their cc issuer for a chargeback. And also one more thing, someone mentioned that IGG will blacklist Jolla for their actions of not delivering what they've promised year ago, that is fine. At least there will be other companies that knows how to run their business...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

guys, you are focus to much on the money. I think it's more about how we want to do buissniess.

Do you think a buissniess is allowed to threat backers how they want just becouse they use crowedfunding. I don't. I want rules for crowedfunding and it should be treated as a regular buissniess and investments.

Sell stuff via webshop, crowdfunding or a store you should still have to payback and if you can't... die trying...bankruptcy. Businesses often fail and that is Becouse there is no more money or investments.

Jolla did both and noone is refunded. It's like next time Jolla/sail is on the market we get the device but pay when we have the money or simply choose to pay. That is rediculas. But its excactly what jolla do.

Most seems to ignore that they also side sales via webshop and that is illegal action not immediately refund.

But None of this should matters...if Jolla had no money, which they do and once again they are using it for other things and that is why this is a scam. They should be used to pay supporters and bring back honesty to the company before doing anything thing else.

I do hope Jolla succeeds to pay back all supporters to get rid of this ugly behavior. If not it will hunt any future sales by these people or brand. Intex phone won't get unpunished.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

It is. You invest money and hope to get something in return. Sometimes you get, sometimes you don't.

Like what?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

A bad investment fine no probs. if Jolla goes bankruptcy.

Like what? Bring back operations and possibly sw development and sales.

What about the webstore sales that all seems to convenient ignore? Why are they not refunded?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Sorry, but experience has nothing to do with being a startup. Some startups have more experience and some have less. And I count Jolla being a startup because they are still trying to bootstrap their business. In the line of business and market they are it takes a lot of time to start it.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

In legal term that is called an embezzlement. Using money for something that is not originally intended...
Let's not forget that all those months they tried to convince people that everything will be alright. They new that they had financial issues due to their bad decisions, but they intentionally left that from their official announcements on their blog posts.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Not sure what you mean. At the blog they say:

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I know. So why not just refund them? That would be as sign of good faith.

Usually its two weeks, possibly three weeks. not months and half a year. If it was my business I would throw in some extras to these customers for the time while they were scammed.

...and then move on to the backers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcXMhwF4EtQ

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Well I am not that sure. The startup is a company that is "starting their business". Jolla has established their company in 2011 if I am not mistaken. They've created OS for phones. They've created phones and sold them to lot of users. They've created several tablets and went official in MWC. So how can you tell that they are still startup? By that definition would you call Google a startup company? They are constantly developing something new, expanding their business?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

If only users could believe in that..., (after several official blog posts misleading the people, of course...)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

off topic

No way. They've failed NOx test emission like VW? :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I don't think the requirements for embezzlement come true in this case, in Finnish or USA laws. The terms of Indiegogo say:

Jolla is the owner of that money when Indiegogo paid it to them and they can use it for whatever they want. Because Jolla offered perks they have an obligation to deliver those so there is a contract dispute if they don't deliver, no embezzlement.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

if you do believe that they can do anything with money, how do you then explain this: (also from IGG terms of use)

If a Campaign Owner is unable to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors, the Campaign Owner will work with the Contributors to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, which may include the issuance of a refund of Contributions by the Campaign Owner.

they either need to fulfill their duties, or they need to issue a full refund by contributors request.
What Jolla did and offered is not even legal.

Oh, btw. The word that some of Jolla hardcore fans like to use "investment", do fully understand the meaning of embezzlement. If you "invest" into something and that money is used into totally different thing what is not agreed, it is called embezzlement.

So which one is it? investment or financing the product that needs to be delivered (buying a product)?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Even if jolla act in th gray zoon of business in this case the customers will punish them for "doing it wrong" or what ever you will call it.

So in the end they will lose anyway. Its just a matter of how and when they like to take the hit.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

That is true, they will feel consequence about their actions, but not by me, by others that will stop supporting them.

Regarding your question, what now (in previous message)? I think BQ Ubuntu tablet is quite impressive. I don't know if it will be able to install .deb packages and run debian applications, but I will need study a bit its capability before I buy it..

P.S. I like your signature. It is funny :)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Actually it looks it can, but with some modifications, and probably it might break OS itself, but there is an option of reflashing an OS...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I opened a zendesk ticket last week about it, and without any more actions they said I should see a refund this week.

So, i'm not sure why you care because you got your money already, but i'm happy with how Jolla is acting on this.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

We only have a conversation and different opinion. My problem is gone at the moment when I saw the balance on my Amex. But this doesn't mean that I should change my opinion about Jolla or to speak regarding those past issues...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

So go buy one of hundreds of Android tablets, in you local store. No risk at all, just give the money and go out with the tablet in your hands, total of 5 minutes. And join an Android forum & community with all the corresponding wisdom... Good luck.
Or are you here because you like TMO with many pages just talking about you ?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Note i said *I* should receive a refund, they also said their automated process isn't ready yet and so they processed me manually. What that means for other webshoppers? i'm not sure.

(also, I didn't ask for special treatment, I merely said I had not received an email like the blog post states I should have, and asked what the timeframe for refunds was)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

WTF, The party is off?!?!
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002..._2_xlarge.jpeg

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I suggest folks show some love to Jolla today. After all, it's Valentines Day!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

That brings back memories. How the time have changed...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You know... the folks that actually received their Jolla tablet have been rather quiet. Only one bloke came here and seemingly wanting to capitalize on the folks here and another sold tablet that went rather quietly.

No real praise, concerns, reports or much of anything here from actual owners. That concerns me more than just this cyclic argument about who has said/meant what and how not to get a refund.

Perhaps it is just time to let the anger go. Let the disappointment go. The folks with the device(s) aren't saying much. So why are the folks without the device continuing on? There will be some refunds, it's a failed crowd funding campaign (note: this is my actual first failed backed campaign for me) and there's not much more to it.

Oh well...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I've said before how lovely mine is, but I think, and I think others do too, that it would be bad taste to crow about it too much when so many people are waiting in frustration. Also don't forget that there are only 121 of us, and may not all be on here.

The tablet experience will be anyone's eventually though, as the work done on adapting Sailfish to larger screens means community tablet ports are now very possible, as are x86 adaptations. So everyone will be able to see how well suited Sailfish is to high res tablets.

My highlights: better landscape support, events screen layout with shortcuts on the right. Silica apps adapt well with virtually no effort - Quickddit is especially nice looking. Of course all the extra RAM means OOM is pretty much idle, and everything is very fluid. The new 4.4 dalvik is very nice too - it'll be a shame if that doesn't grt released on something else.

As much as I dislike the taobao hawkers, I'd probably get one off them right now if I were you.