Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

Estel, did it occur to you that it was simply bad timing, and the matter, in your fellow councelars opinion, perhaps needed more nursing, than a few minutes, before a council meeting with (mire) serious community issues to be decided on?
Certainly - repeating a request over and over - doesnt mean you get what you want at a specific time. Any parent can confirm that ;)

Again, I need to say, that this wasnt a proper way to deal with this.
And, no, there have been no "peer-to-peer" murky discussions, excepth those that you apparently tried to initiate with "talks with other councelars privately", at least I was not invited to that party? That also tells something about councelars individual moral, or some at least.

You sure do have your personal opinions :) Now you yourself refers to statement that this is not the right time or place ;)

How the board of directors will be created, or who will be part of it, has yet to be decided to my knowledge. How can you now then start to call such a board fogged, unclear, and fishy?

This saddens me. Despite my comments, which is not personal, but intended to open your eyes and mind a bit. You contributed a lot, for bad - but definately mostly - for good, first thing getting the elections on a roll.

Does this mean we wont be seeing you for some time? jokes aside, I understand your frustration, and had hoped you would help yourself to get past issues and continue working for the community, as a councelar.

Thanks Estel, you know that hard work is in front of us all to keep the community alive.

Best wishes

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

Well, as a regular Community Member - again :) I must say I expected answers like that.

For me, calling fellow Councilor a "weight in leg when trying to outrun shark" , that You're wondering if "is best to drop now, or swim to the beach with weight attached to the leg" - in public, Councils thread = doing murky, silly, and cowardly backstab - is totally out of line.

Let put aside Woody's exaggerated self-confidence - the only way you could "drop that weight" is via next election, so You're absolutely sure, that You (in current 4 people Council squad) would be elected, and me not. I'm sure, that Community is wise enough, to properly judge such unjustified, overgrown ego.

But, in case of any misunderstanding, it's a matter of one-liner saying that "it wasn't what I mean, and mistercrap interpreted it wrongly." Or, saying "It is *exactly* what I mean, and he properly assigned You being "weight". It doesn't require extensive pre-meditation.

It isn't case - as You all try to show it - of "request at wrong moment". Despite importance of clearing such thing, as extreme disrespect and - in fact - sneaky trolling against other Councilor in Council's thread, I've asked to talk about in in idle moment, where Council had *nothing* to do. Your (=whole current Council) reaction on IRC logs showed exactly, that it isn't problem of lacking time, but lacking courage.

Trying to explain it like this, is just trying to - cowardly - cover lack of enough honor, to stand behind own words.

But, Woody's stance isn't reason for my decision - it is about reaction of other Councilors, when such problem appeared. Putting head into sand is something, that made me stop wanting to work with those people, immediately.

C'mon, either we're team, or - if we tolerate such things like Woody did in this thread - we can as good disband. I'm not going to wait, until all decide to disband, so I'm stepping down myself.
---

I respect Your (all 4) right to think, that I was "weight in the leg" - so, please, respect my decision, by not suggesting murky things about my reasoning. And be glad, that You're free to run. In fact, I am - and whole Community is - eager to see that "run" made by Council.

Just remember - in case of failure, You wan't have any "weight" to blame.

/Estel

Ps.
When I mentioned trying to "talk it out privately" with other Councilors during last week, I meant council@maemo.org mail. Privately = not in public. When it failed, I tried to use proper Communication channel - Council meeting.

Please, do not suggest, that I was plotting something "behind". No offense taken, I understand, that man judges by himself.

If anyone from current Council feel it worth to continue this discussion, my PM is open and inviting. I hope, that Council have better content to put in "Ask the Council" thread - no reason to make it "Ask the Estel" ;)

Back to productive things, please.

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

Can you just pay attention is that you always the one who is "honest and right", and doesn't matter what, others are always "not honest, right and unfair". Is like "it's not you, it's just the world around is wrong". And it's not like there are two sides, but all sides are "unfair" to you. Can you just think about it? The world is not going around you, pal.

And it's funny that yu fight for power, even considering about Board and how you gonna get there and current council not. I don't think they care to be Board, but more of structure and future, while you opposite.

You really remind me of Dwight Schrute from The Office.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...inn_Wilson.jpg

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

I base my observations on the blatantly obvious, not the assumed or implied.

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

just to throw this point across before it causes further misunderstandings...

does Estel still keep his device that was awarded to him as he was a member of the Council...from the outset it looks like that while we were debating in the CA thread he resisted everyone's efforts to step down or give up his device but from "one phrase uttered by woody" he is stepping down with the knowledge he is keeping his device...

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

Estel stepping down doesnt affect his award, as you correctly indicated. Unless he decides himself to forward his award.
He was, like the rest, awarded the device for past deeds, allthough being councelar may have given a small advantage, this is not mainly related to his award.

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

Everyone seems to get (and agrees to) the implied messages, except the person himself.

In this case, that sole person needs to find other individuals that agrees with his (unrealistic) views; if he does not succeed in doing so, then he must accept that the general view is the consensus and use this for his self-correction.

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

and this he obviously does not, alas
keeps insulting others implicitely blaming them for having had to step down
he can blame me indeed for having called a cat a cat
which is probably the reason why i get the honor of explicit insult

anyway, last point to settle...
does Arie step up on the Council as 6th candidate?

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

Estel, I assure you that there wasn't any kind of private communication between Council members in any way, or any kind of conspiracy against you. I'm sure you will trust my word, based on my past behaviour.

For me it was simply a question of priorities, I didn't want to distract the meeting in any way from the main point regarding the bylaws document and infrastructure transition, and I didn't have too much time yesterday. I think it's quite clear from the logs.

Now, reached this point, I think you are doing the correct movement, both for you and for the Council, so I won't ask you to continue or argument about your decision.

Estel, I wish you the best in any project you'd like to participate, your help will be much appreciated (as always). It's undeniable that TMO is not the same when you are not here.

I have really tried to avoid these kind of discussions both between Council members (particularly you and Woody) and between counsellors and other community members. So I beg you all to move on and focus on the current transition process.

Re: [Council] Ask the Council!
 

Absolutely agree, and thanks to Your wise reaction, ivgalvez. Mind You - I would *never* discuss it in public, but this unfortunate case started on:

...so with all sadness, it needed to be concluded in public, too. Links and logs were provided on:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=109

...which bring us to point, where it's hardly belivable, that decline to settle problems during Council meeting, was caused by "priorities" or "lack of time". As said, it was attempted 3 times, last one, when Council had free 30 minutes, awaiting for X-Fade.

But, logs are provided, so everyone can make own mind. Thus...

...we don't need another never-ending-replies drama (containing, mostly, posts from people that were never parts of events happening).
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Crisis of trust between Councilors is one of worst thing that can happen in our Community - if my stepping down will allow remaining 4th Councilors to fix it, I'm all happy penguin. Personally, I already feel how much free time it gives, when You're saved from Council's duties (50% of time for creative work, and 50% for useless argues, sadly).

At the same time, Chair won't need to have hard, internal "shark" dilemmas, about abusing election process - another happy one. Finally, even usual bunch of trolls will lie happy with full stomachs, so they're going to stop pestering You (as, in reality, they never cared about any devices or developers - wanted *only* to divide).
---

At the end, everyone is happy, so we can proclaim sweet pink flowers and make love, not peace (or something like that ;) ). If anyone is wondering, despite any controversies about current leadership, I would still donate to maemo.org/hildonfoundation transition, without second though.

Time to get over it, and go back to productive work!