Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

I have never been successful in getting anyone than a level 1 (or 2 if I'm lucky) tech support monkey at Nokia. If anyone knows the contact information of someone who matters at this company, please PLEASE post it. It is not good business practice to NOT listen to customers, so I don't think they would mind receiving our feedback...

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

If this is the way it is going to be, I'll just jump ship to a phone with Android or Windows Mobile 7. A great community can only do so much when the parent company more or less disowns their own products like Nokia is doing.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Maybe if we generate enough noise then Nokia will have to listen.

Perhaps if the press, blogs and more importantly majority shareholders were told how we feel then Nokia's policy will have to change.

It is not enough for a company to just sell mobile phones anymore. The market has changed where people expect mobile applications and be able to still use them when they upgrade to a new phone.

The idea of "mothballing" a device that is barely 2 months old is a very short term goal. Nokia should have a long-term strategy and actually grow the mobile applications aspect of the market. The only way to do this is to allow an OS to exist on different devices and keep compatibility a priority.

I'm amazed of the arrogance of a company that thinks by managing bugs in the current version of the OS and then saying they will be fixed in the next version(only available with a new device).

If this is the case there will be no chance I will buy the next maemo device. I strongly suggest other users do the same.

If you buy the next maemo device knowing the way Nokia if behaved so far then more fool you.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Now, the question is why is that a good excuse for the G1, while there is a chance that will be exactly the same (speculative) reason the N900 is not getting Maemo 6 ? Or will people suddenly say 'ah ok, flash space, then I'm cool with the N900 not being upgraded' ? There are three things that can kill Maemo 6 on the N900 - NAND/opt/flash space, RAM size and input UI differences. While you can go and argue about UI, RAM and flash size are a given, and there is no point of M6 on the N900 if it sucks because of these two. It would be even worse than the current situation to say 'hey fellas, don't worry, you'll have M6 on N900 !', only for the users to discover after an upgrade from M5 that it works like Vista on an early eeePC.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Sorry but it's not at all like Linux distros. With Linux distros losing support is not at all such a big issue because everybody always has the right to upgrade to the next version, no cash required.

With Linux distros you can still today probably load the latest release of pretty much any one of them on a computer that has a Pentium processor. Some go even further than that...

Still, I guess this upgrade policy Nokia seems to have is a result of being stuck in the era where phones weren't really yet upgradeable and didn't resemble "real" computers. They need to wake up.

I wish Maemo really was more like a Linux distro, that way we'd have no worries about getting the latest. Maybe we won't now either if Mer develops well but who knows...

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Jumping ship to WinMo... that's funny!

You do know that you get zero long term support there, right?

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Is that not what our elected council members are for????
Come on guys a bit more noise from the chosen few might make a difference!!

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I have heard nobody say this is the reason there is no Maemo 6. Also, a repartition of the internal space (considering it comes with a 32gb internal card) would negate this. It might run slower, we won't know till it's there.

So, if they were interested in supporting it, then they simply wouldn't release it in an SSU fashion. They would release it as a complete reflash, which is perfectly acceptable.

And UI input differences I just don't see it.. they can't possibly make such heavy use of multi-touch that it renders the UI unusable without it. That would just be insane.. I mean the phone CURRENTLY is hard enough to use with one hand - if nearly every gesture, including clicking a menu button, required two hands and multiple touches... that would just be sad.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

It's *still* a handset. The lifespan is 18 months. Or less. Much less right now since hardware in this space is changing very quickly, and especially in the maemo + hardware space since both are evolving very quickly.

If you want a (possibly) longer-term supported device, waiting for whatever is after the n900 isn't a bad choice. Like the first iphone was never going to be able to be a 3g device, the n900 isn't ever going to be everything the next device is.

Then again, that's always true. The G1 isn't the Nexus One, nor will it ever be. After 18 months, the G1 is looking pretty dated.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Whoa, this could turn into a Nokia marketing nightmare pretty soon.

- N900 has bugs and fixes are marked "Maemo 6"
- There is no word from Nokia if N900 will run Maemo 6.
- Nokia announces free turn-by-turn Nav for their S60 and S40 smart-phones
- But Nokia does not mention the N900, just says it's not on the roadmap and N900 users should not hold their breath.
- And there is still no official word from Nokia regarding N900 support, if Maemo 6 will run on it and if so, when.

Does anyone have the phone # of the N900 product manager? It seems to me they need to start to communicate, otherwise we will see a lot of vocal and frustrated N900 users on the tech blogs.

And it's just not necessary. Nokia could do so many things, especially communicate!

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I agree that this is certainly an important issue for the council to address, and I have introduced it as an action item. More as it manifests.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

The N900 has only been shipping LESS THAN TWO MONTHS and we're already seeing bug fixes being deferred to the next Maemo version.
Last time I checked, 2 mo < 18 mo.

Having just purchased an N900, and taking into account my above statement, why would I want to purchase a new Nokia device that (possibly..lol) be supported long-term?? Nokia has done NOTHING to instill confidence in me about their product and future plans. I openly invite them to do so.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

erm a firmware release just 2 weeks ago if I remember.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

There were two firmware updates released so far. There will be more of them. Why are you so convinced that there won't be.

It's an open platform - it will continue to be one. The device will work just as well in the future.

I mean, why buy anything? It will always be replaced by future products.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Yep reading this thread can bring you down alright... but not me! I still love this device and was planning to changer it next year/when the next one comes out anyway so I will just get on with enjoying this here and now.
To me nothing comes close to it and that makes me happy.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I might get stoned to death here by playing the judas but here it goes...

I think that Nokia since the beginning hinted that N900 wont support M6. I think that if people bought the device knowing that it "is step 4 of 5" and knowing how Nokia is and still come here to complain it is worthless... I bought N900 and I am really really satifsfied with it.

Having said that, I hope/wish that the "final" step,M6, brings the much wanted OS updates. If not, this was my last Maemo device. I trully hope Nokia is keeping and eye in this.

Marketing a device as a mobile computer is a heavy statement. And I expect that with M6 I can get OTA updates,paid or not, of M7.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

IF correct:

If Nokia does not support Maemo 5, they can forget a lot of future business by N900 owners. People that have a love crush with Nokia do understand it is not reciprocated by Nokia- don't they?

Keep hearing, "Just wait, there will be TONS of apps". Not seeing them and there is very low commercial support.

I use mine as a netbook and media player, so no problem here, but people that use this as their main device should be pi55ed if correct. I will be happy with efforts being done by the community, but I may be in the minority for being happy with that.

Seems silly to create an OS just for one device. I expected to be able to update to Maemo 6 as a result of this perhaps poor assumption.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Don't know where misinformation like this is coming from.

http://noknok.tv/2010/01/22/free-ovi...nd-nokia-n900/

Seriously this thread is like watching a bunch of emo kids at a death cab for cutie concert. Yes the N900 will become outdated, Yes the new Maemo 6 device will be better, Yes even the Mona Lisa is falling apart....but has your N900 lost any sort of functionality in the meantime? Do you really think your phone will be the rage 12 months+ past purchase? Do you think there will zero compatibility between Maemo 6 and Maemo 5, all this lament seems to come from the fact that yes, what was once new, will one day become old. Stop being so damn emo and enjoy the best mobile device on the market right now and for the immediate future(ie 3-6 months). If the new one comes out and has more bells and whistles that you really desparately need, go get it. I came from a N82 and I was thinking for a cellphone I really don't need much more, I love the camera, and I can function with the mobile web fine if need be. However I did own a N810 and loved it, and was interested to get my hands on the N900 and I'm glad I did, the contacts integration alone won me over.

FFS stop feeling like a petulant 14 yr old boy with a new stepmom that gets more of your dad's attention, and be thankful for the greatness in your hands right now.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Best post on this thread.

And to anybody that thinks were complaining, whining and being greedy, that is not the case. It is seriously a problem when you buy a device brand new a month or two before and you see enhancements and bugfixes as "fixed in harmattan" similar to what happened to the NITs without gprs hardware.

Apparently you arent quite getting the point. Of course the n900 will become outdated..its just alarming at the rate its going. At this rate, if maemo 6 comes out this fall, maemo 5 will stop receiving any enhancements by this summer.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Posted on 9/28/07
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=78308&postcount=26


Posted on 11/3/06
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=24803&postcount=49

Welcome aboard!!! The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Being elected to the council gave my voice no more weight. In fact you might argue I was more vocal and listened to more, prior to joining the council in September. Just because the council MAY agree with you, doesn't necessarily mean we can do anything about it. And like it or not, nobody cares if I quit the council.... Some may even be happy (you know who you are) :D:D

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

The problem with your link is that the opinion of the writer includes N900, the quote from Nokia says Maemo, so it does not really mean what you want it to mean.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Were they elected by the community or by Nokia employees?? :D

Just kidding, didn't even know that there were a council... A suggestion to Nokia would be to indicate a PR employee to talk directly with these members, who could replicate official position to this forum, thus avoiding the increasing rumors and complains.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

What was actually said (and quoted there) is that support for Maemo will be coming. Not necessarily Maemo 5 support though, and the feature requests have been changed to target Harmattan, not Fremantle. Whether it'll get backported afterwards or not is another question though.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Below my personal opinion, as a community member:

First the nature of Open Source communities is peaceful, we don't make rebellions, if we have problems we try to fix them, people with those intentions are not welcome at least from my side.

I don't know who said that the device doesn't have support anymore, but is public that Nokia is working in PR 1.2, so that assumption is false.
As for the maemo6 in the N900, I perfectly understand the situation, but you guys want that Nokia make a promise based in a unfinished product ? Well if I were a manager I would not do that, during the development phase a lot of things can change, even some blocker that prevents maemo6 in the N900 can appear, then Nokia will be lying to the community.

I think Nokia already knows that we want maemo6 in the n900, so we should move along and stop the futurology and try to improve what we've now: Maemo5.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Why do you collaborate with Nokia PR?
Why should we care that Nokia work on 1.2 which is sure to include a new theme, when practically every bug in bugzilla is WONTFIX in N900, a two months old device?

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

this is the same for everything: programmed obsolescence. funny how the n900 which is probably the device in which there is less of it gets the more complaints. i think because they didnt programmed well and didnt communicate enough. but i guess their main problem is that we are a little bit smarter than the average iphone owners. there's also why our market is so little compared to that. sadly there's no so much they can do to fix this bug (fixed in harmattan??)

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

It is obvious that you did not get my point.

Here again especially for you:

A 2 month old device has bugs. They need to be fixed. These bugs are marked as "Maemo 6". There is no indication if / when the 2 month old device will be able to run Maemo 6.

Conclusion: We do not know if / when the acknowledged bug will be fixed for the N900 or not. This is unacceptable.

Regarding your NokNok link: It was stated numerous times on this site that there is neither confirmation nor denial that turn by turn navigation will run on the N900. All it states that Nokia plans to make it run on Maemo, But which Mameo version? And will N900 be able to run it if it is not Maemo 5?

So why all this fuzz? Only because Nokia - so far- does not communicate. And Nokia could remedy this easily. Just communicate. This was the point of my post.

And please refrain from remarks like "petulant 14 yo". It just shows how immature you are.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

You're being very forgiving here. The M6 device is reportedly coming 2H2010?

Now, go through this list:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Abugs.maemo.org+harmattan

And you will see several times:
(Too late for Fremantle?! It's been out 2 months! You can't make *any changes at all* after the phone is released? Really?)

Etc.

Almost everything you look in there says "Version: 5.0" which is what the bug was opened against... and then "Target Milestone: Harmattan".

There's an awful lot of "enhancement" requests there that the N900 is perfectly capable of, being put off to "harmattan" - that provides absolutely no benefit to the N900 users at all. Plus, it's being pushed out, 2 months after the device hits the market!

How can that not be a *little* annoying?

As I've said before.. it's not entirely that Harmattan is not coming to the N900 that is the complaint.. it's combination of Fremantle not getting any additional features (or even some bugs fixed), and the N900 not getting the OS that *is* getting these features and bugs fixed. THAT's the problem.

If this were 6-12 months after the device was released, and THEN they started pushing crap off to the next version.. that's not so bad. 2 months? Really?

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Also, I don't understand the craze about Maemo 6. How do you know it doesn't suck? It may even have LESS features than Maemo 5! (in fact if the past trends were any indicator it WILL have less features -- and some of the WONTFIXes are because of components no longer developed).

I'd personally be more angry about every non OSS component since that means bugs I cannot fix.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Indeed. I don't want M6 on my N900 so much as i don't want to see key things marked "Fixed in Harmattan". The thing is, if we know we will get M6 for N900, it will reduce the sting of that a bit.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Originally posted at: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39397&page=2

This is kinda off topic since it is related to Ovi Suite, sorry for that in advance... but it is ridiculous that in its own site Nokia publish a photo of the N900 besides the link for Ovi Suite download, since it is not supported!!

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Bugs opened against Fremantle, fixed or considered for fixing in Harmattan. 37 After 2 months. What will this be in another 2? or 4? All signs point to only major bugs being resolved in Fremantle - no enhancements or anything minor. This means if Harmattan doesn't come to the N900, we're stuck with a half baked and unsupported product, lacking many commonplace features. Period.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

A search in bugzilla could quickly reveal this claim to be BS.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

thats what i was talkin about and its exactly the point here. its also the reason why steve jobs didnt put camera and flash plugin in the ipad 1.0. and its the programmed obsolescence. its a market rule. enjoy the fact that n900 is still the best right now.
and yes the wrong side here is that they didnt programmed well the obsolescence and that we are too smart for this market style.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

How does one find all bugs that are targeted at Harmattan? I tried but the advanced search does not allow it that I could find.

Frank

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

I see 69 bugs WONTFIX'ed in 5.0-final on up and 17 bugs already lost to Fremantle, being FIXED in Harmattan instead, but a whopping 157 bugs FIXED in 5.0+. We know there's at least a 1.2 update on the way for Fremantle, and there's been hints of other, additional updates beyond that, so we're not at that Diablo-like "Yeah, we fixed it internally, but we're not releasing it" stage.

To say I'll be unhappy if Nokia does not make Harmattan available for the N900 is an understatement, I assure you. At the same time, you're exaggerating a wee bit here about how bugs are being resolved.

EDIT: As GeneralAntilles points out below, I didn't take into account where bugs were filed, so my Harmattan count is high. Many of its bugs were introduced with it, not Fremantle. In short, GA's numbers are better.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Of the 3064 bugs filed against Fremantle, 475 have been marked FIXED, 470 of those are fixed in an existing or upcoming Fremantle release, while 5 are fixed in Harmattan (of that 3064, 950 have been marked INVALID/WONTFIX/DUPLICATE/WORKSFORME).

Edit: Damn you, sjgadsby! I blame Bugzilla being slow. :(

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

We could re-phrase it as "practically every bug I care about in bugzilla...".

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

The entire council resigning in protest is not something I want to see happen, but if Nokia sh1t on this community once more by refusing to give us OS updates after we have found a ton of bugs and enhancements at our own cost (both financial and temporal) then it may be the only action that will result in the kind of publicity that would cause Nokia to reconsider or - better still - avoid making the mistake in the first place.

Even those customers who haven't submitted bugs/enhancements deserve to be rewarded with an OS update otherwise they won't stay loyal Nokia/Maemo customers for much longer. Anyone who wants a smart/super phone, once they leave the Nokia fold I very much doubt they will ever come back.

Nokia needs to work a lot harder at retaining customers, and making existing customers buy a new device just to get new features and/or bug fixes is not the way. The competition have shown that improved and more capable hardware makes a better case for upgrading, while continuing to offer updates even for old devices.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Well, we are all in the same boat here. Understand it now or in the next couple of weeks, but bug fixes (and I'm not talking about enhancements, only bug fixes) that are postponed to the next OS that will "probably" won't support our product is more than annoying - this is something that we as customers should not tolrate.

Since the first drops of "Will n900 support Harmattan?" here on talk.maemo.org and until this thread that points directly to a rare Nokia's offical communication with us, the customers, about the bug fixes - I thought deeply on what can be done, from a consumer point of view. And the fact Nokia is keeping radio silense only encourage me to think they don't want any offical "No, it won't support" comm as they don't want the rage of their current customers would become offical, and enjoy the dubios pleasure of us not being able to officaly protest against their (weird) buisness strategy.

First, we, the customers, should address Nokia directly with this.
I've seen the Texrat thread about taking it up with the council, and that's great, but it doesn't prevent us from taking action and turning to Nokia.

Only question left is how? (Should this be discussed in a brain storm? :p )
I thought about an electronic petition - a website that summerizes all being said here, and hopefully gets the web & the community's attention. On the site we can demand the minimum (or maybe more) that we expect right now - like bug fixes. If this thing catches momentum we might even ask for reasenable enhancemes (which also appear at bugzilla).

The petition will also remind Nokia that buying the next n9x0 device is not obvious and grately depends on how they will treat n900 and its community.

Your thoughts?