Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Yep agreed, said same thing in my post, if it's a proprietary-ish standard, then it'll still have to be supported unfortunately, as Google is a "big" part of the web.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Since Google wrote that they support CalDav for "whitelisted" developers, I'm sure Jolla can contact them about it to get on that list.

https://docs.google.com/a/google.com...viewform?pli=1

I don't think they should spend time on any proprietary APIs.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

They can contact them is a big difference from they would be white-listed. Also the trend seems to point that not now but in 1-2 years surely Google will say even for the white-listed developers its being shut down and Google Calendar API is the new norm. This is simply how things work so its pretty valid to ask Jolla how deep they would be able to support this necessary evil for many people...


Also regardless of you thinking whether they should spend time on proprietary APIs this is a necessary evil due to the sheer userbase so frankly your opinion is worthless for those people who are deeply integrated in such services and want them on an OS if they are to switch to it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Google aren't known yet for developing closed standards - that would be a new plague. If they plan to open it up it would be better.

I mean there is no point in working on proprietary APIs if Google offers an option to use open ones. If they close it up - then there will be a reason. So far they either pretend, or mean that they aren't closing them.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'd like to see Sailfish ported to Galaxy S4. I prolly will be buying always better hardware than the previous smart phone, so nothing less wouldn't make it.

I can as well install CyanogenMod to S4 to get open source system and lots of good efficient Android apps.

But I would surely like to try Sailfish in a S4, even perhaps pay for it, if it would be good and Android apps would work also.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Has this been here yet?
ST-Ericsson goes bust.
http://nokiagadgets.com/2013/03/18/s...a-be-affected/

Maybe the reason for delay or more delays to come?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

"as TI has also informed it will be leaving its OMAP platform."

Huh?

/e seems i slept in 09/2012.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Yeah, that was expected, but Jolla didn't say whether it'll affect their first release or not. I guess if they'll be delayed - they'll announce it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Sorry for more off-topic, just saw another sign that something is seriously wrong with Google:
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/...bble-20130318/

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Thing is, Jolla phones was already delayed by ~6 months. Reason could be this.

Not really been fan of Google for past months. They have been closing some of their services and in general using their dominant position in internet. Similar to what MS had/has on desktop.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

:( It wasn't clear whether they'd definitely go bust originally, only that they'd go their separate ways...
I hope this hasn't resulted in delays, I was skeptical about them using STE's top-end SoC* (from perf. perspective let alone delivery), maybe they switched to Qualcomm long ago now.

*not sure they'd even use that anyway, probably the next one down :-/

"up to 6mth", anywhere from 0-6mth....

Anyway, can we please get back to the main focus/intent of this thread please (unless the case can be made that this content is relevant in some way).

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Jolla have confirmed they at least intend to support CardDAV/CalDAV.

https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/statuses/313645867150221312

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

One for the docs I guess, have they said whether they'll support Google's new standard?
*EDIT* I've asked them using that Twitter link...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I let Stskeeps know about Google concerns and whitelisting etc. I'll add info that generic CalDAV / CarDAV will be supported to the doc. Do you want to transfer ready answers to maemo.org wiki? I'll have limited time these couple of weeks, I'll have more time later to do it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I want to know if Jolla will have NFC? How big is NFC in china and is they using Mifare standard etc...

Question raised cause I port my nextgen NfcKeyring(stores all pins/password on phone crypotate using AES standard and Tag as AESKey) to Sailfish atm...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Can you help transfer stuff to the Wiki that's cleared-up, & and add new content (like what you just raised) to the docs?
I suspect there's other good content raised in this thread over the last mth or so that hasn't been added, but I'm not sure we should go back to open-slather access to the docs.

Still no response from them, typical...
https://twitter.com/JediTWang/status/314325368817479680
update: seems they have provided a response now

Their response about STE's woes, not sure if much can be read into it though :-/
https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/314294904832528384

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Someone pointed me to this: https://code.google.com/p/qt-google-calendar/

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Excuse up front if this topic has been covered elsewhere.

I would like to know if Sailfish is going to support non-cloud synchronization solutions. Preferably by syncevolution support, (which would include MS ActiveSync support) to allow exchange with common PIM desktop-solutions, like Evolution and Mozilla Thunderbird.

AFAIK it doesn't work (at least I didn't get it to work) on the N900 and my N9*; - something that annoys me to no end. Would I have the skills I'd start working on something, but I'd rather see a Sailfish OS native solution, built-in and ready to roll.

It does surprise me, to hardly see any non-cloud results when googling. Does everyone use a cloud solution or is no one interested in desktop/mobile PIM exchange?

* I run Evolution on various Debian (based) systems.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Not sure about CardDAV, but for Caldav you can use calendarserver with most Linux distros. And sync against your local machine.

There is also davical - looks like it works with CardDAV.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I know, but the problem lies for me in the lack of platforms supporting it. For instance, my girlfriend runs Debian on her EEE, but has a Samsung SG2. Sometimes we share appointments, so I would rather go for ActiveSync (even though it's Microsoft), that at least is natively supported by Android as well as syncevolution. CardDAV is ok, but limited and buggy and not very much cross-platform, again, if I am not mistaken. Syncevolution with proper non-cloud support would allow me to use the same protocol sharing PIM with her Android and EEE machine from both my phone and desktop, which is also usefull during the maintenance of her EEE.

For me it would be a relieve if Sailfish would finally allow users to use an implementation of syncevolution that does not rely on a remote cloud server.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I thought there is decent CardDAV support on Android, but I never really checked (I don't use it).

Here is what's coming up with simple search in Google store:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=carddav&c=apps

Looks like it's not a built in support, but requires some extra applications. On the other hand CardDAV is probably the most cross platform solution, since others are even less common.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Old but I vote for unlike :P

http://irelandstechnologyblog.com/20...ailfish-meego/

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Add that to the Concerns & Criticisms doc if you want...
It's not as important as other content, but it's still somewhat significant.
Personally I don't think it's that bad, although I feel unfollow would be better.
Perhaps in China they'll re-use unfollow, or tie both concepts together.
Have we heard from stskeeps (Carsten) yet, last few times I tried he no longer responded :mad:

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Use CardDAV-Sync Beta under Android. In contrast to syncevolution, it just works.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I think we have to respect the facts that if they are plan to announce a device in some months they probadly working they asses of atm. and thats includes stkeeps.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I don't see why we have to respect it, not after the assurances they gave us many months ago...
Besides, it's a initiative that would benefit them just as much as us, if they choose to leverage it properly.
Because they've chosen not to, there'll be way more disappointment at launch than there would've been.
It's not too late but it won't be as useful as it could've been, & it'll be too late* if it's not fully embraced by June.

*to be meaningfully useful

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

As said before jolla lack all the buissniss and marketing machine. They don't understand how to manage expectation. It will be fun to watch the release.

Jolla building a device, yes, but what they should really build is a community. 8 months to launch.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Define "Build a community"!!

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

a way to attract and expand the number of supporters :confused:

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Well they HAVE listened to us. But they should care about theyr bussiness in the first place. Not a few fanboys at TMO. Thats a fact. We can cry as much as we want about it but this is how bussiness is! They can't just answer question all the time what 5-10 people want at TMO when they have to focus on:

* Getting first device out
* Marketing it
* Getting more companys use sailfish
* Getting pro developers make apps for sailfishos
* Fix bugs in the SDK and make more example apps
* Make core apps ready for the upcoming device
* Getting more HW partners (STEricsson RIP very bad for Jolla IMHO even if they say no problem for them-...)


List goes on. Theyr are around just around 60 persons working like crazy on the OS for got sake. There is no way for them sitting here answer questions all the time. I am sure they are up to the head with other stuff atm. They are very small company and its very risky. company may very well be gone after first device if they dont fokus on bussines first.

However compared to the big companys they HAVE answered ALOT of questions already....

* They have given alot of answers at Twtter, Facebook, media etc...

* They have invited developers atleast two times on Hackevents

Its very easy forget that. And start whine when they dont have time to answer. But we have to have patience, there is no other way. If we don't like it go elsewhere and hope that company gets faster answers to the "community" but I doubt anyone will get an answer from Samsungs Tizen or Firefox project.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

It's not about answering questions all the time, it's about having an actively evolving dialogue...
One which helps identify things they've neglected to think about much or at all, not just one that satisfies curiosities or eases concerns of devs/end-users.
This has all been discussed/explained, they did initially see the value in it & planned to engage, that died quickly though unfortunately.
Twitter/FB & the media drip-feed are far too ad-hoc for that sort of thing, we had a chance to do something with much more substance.
Anyway, all is not completely lost yet I guess, hopefully shmerl will get some more responsiveness from them soon, maybe I'll try again.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I think you've missed another opposing "fact" to your so-called fact: How they treat the "fanboys" at TMO and how TMO "fanboys" react might be a barometer of things to come in the same way I'd made that point about Nokia ages ago. Nobody at Nokia wanted to listen back then either--I used to get a lot of "this isn't the place to get Nokia to pay attention" and I pointed out how it would serve them well to do so. You see how well that turned out?

Perhaps it would behoove them to start making more friends at TMO, seek out opinions and motivate participation from the developers who are among the many "fanboys" at TMO. I would think that it's exactly WHEN THEY ARE at this early point that they should especially value such opinions and community-building ahead of a release and during development.

...Or don't, and continue to ignore them. Let's see how well that turns out again. If nothing else, even if they succeed in finally putting this thing out, this adds more fuel to the notion that they're not interested in openness too.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Compare Nokia with Jolla is just ridicilous. Again Jolla has communicated WAY more than Nokia already.

Infact they have a small team directly connected to the community:

https://sailfishos.org//community.html

They'r are on the big channels like Facebook, twitter, linkedin, IRC but still people complain.

Jolla has several times said to us to get involved in merproject.

If people could more of our non constructive time a TMO to start port apps and get involved in Merproject, it would be way more constuctive way to move forward!

To me it looks there is more active people in whining at TMO than there are active people in the merproject and thats make me wonder if there is a community future et all :(

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I wouldn't even start comparing Nokia (today) and Jolla. Nokia became M$ vassal and patent troll. Jolla is working on innovate product and developing an open source [eventually] OS. Some rough communication is kind of a problem, but it's not the reason to compare them with Nokia.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

It's incorrect & unfair to characterise what this initiative was intended to be as non-constructive & whining.
It's now not far from that through no fault of ours, but it could've been so much more...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I did not mean you or the rest who is active setting up question document etc thats a good iniative. But there are many others who already cries about jolla is not open, were is the device and so on. But again patience :)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I think you missed the part where I pointed out how Nokia OVER THE YEARS eventually became the M$ vassal. I am comparing Jolla today to the Nokia of 2007 when I had first started poking around here at InternetTabletTalk/TalkMaemoOrg. In that way, yes--I can make that parallel to my argument.

If Jolla intends to attract the previous Maemo users and developers, it seems to be that TMO is, once again, the place they should be paying attention to. You can argue any point you want, but it doesn't change that.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Okay, so just now stskeeps (Carsten) has found someone else to engage in this with us, no promises, but they may have time for some limited "back n forth" via the docs.
Probably not too much here, here's where we discuss content relating to the docs, & how to organise content that's being added, or moved elsewhere.
He has forwarded the GDocs links to them, fingers crossed....

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Isn't @cybette (Carol Chen) responsible for Jolla's community relationship?