Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I still want one of those even now. OK, with Bluetooth and 3G but I still want one.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I think it's incredibly optimistic (dare I say, naive?) to think that Apple's SDK will enable half the apps that the n800 already has. Things like VPN support, ssh, VoIP, IM, increased codec support, etc. -- these are apps that Apple has omitted on purpose.

It's almost a certainty that Apple's deal with AT&T isn't so blind as to allow Apple to ship a proper IM app and gut AT&T's market for SMS/MMS; let alone ship a VoIP app that would gut AT&T's market for minutes.

It's most likely that iPhone/touch software will go through channels much like console gaming software: the developer will have to be vetted and pay for the SDK, test devices and support; the software will have to be vetted by Apple QA; it will only be sold through Apple channels (read: iTunes).

Remember that nearly every fight Apple had when bringing the iPhone to market was for control. They're not just going to cough that up to a bunch of hobbyists and johnny-come-latelys to run circles around them delivering the software people wished came on the iPhone.

At best, there may be a hobbyist SDK that allows you to self-sign self-compiled apps for use on your own phone - apps that can only be distributed as source and will only run in a sandbox. (See: Microsoft XNA GSE)

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I agree with this speculation. The apps will require certification and probably will be installed through iTunes, so expect Apple to retain control over what can be released and by whom. For example, don't expect to see a 3rd party application enabling custom ringtones anytime soon. :)

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

And THAT is one solid reason why I say the phone aspect IS relevant.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

ok, first off, the comment about being able to install everything under the sun. It can be a double edged sword. I'm the first guy in line to do that with any of the gadgets I buy (which why I only bought the iPhone once it was hacked) but ultimately, what motivates me to buy the item initially will be the reason why I keep it around. I bought numerous PocketPCs and Palms without a real need for a PDA. I bought them to just install and tinker and ultimately, they ended up in the gadget heap.

I bought my 770 because I wanted "on-the go" web browsing with a desktop experience. I installed maemopad to canola, but the reason why I still use my 770 for the last 1+ years is because its still a great little web browser, even with its limitations.

Apple might be only targetting a few functions, but seriously, they do them quite well. This is why the iPod is the #1 selling MP3 player. I'm not saying the iPhone will be as successful, but what it sets out to accomplish, it does pretty well, even with the limitations it has, and it has MANY phone limitations even compared to a dumb phone.

I do concur with a lot of what Milhouse is saying. He's saying it with tough love, because ultimately, we all want to see Nokia succeed, if nothing else to give Apple a run for their money. Competition breeds better products for us consumers and less of a stranglehold of a monopoly by evil corporations.

I mean, seriously, I wonder how much of Nokia's ribbing "open" marketing campaign ended up in a boardroom of Apple on making the decision to finally open up and offer an iPhone/iPod Touch SDK? I wouldn't be surprised if it was discussed.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Oh, and to address Nokia Marketing 101:

I remember when Nokia re-introduced the 770 with the Google search applet & Gtalk client and they called a big press conference. It was the saddest thing ever. I was expecting some excitement and we got a bunch of suits standing at a podium like it they were reading today's lunch menu.

The reason Apple gets into the news so much is they *DO* have such mindshare and hearts in their corner. Jobs is such a great salesman (which makes me wonder how slimy he really is, since I always hated salesmen), that when he gets on stage to demo and introduce something, he makes us completely buy into what he's selling. "Boom" "We really think we have a terrific product" "This is an amazing feature" might just feel like tools from the Reality Distortion Field toolbox, but they work.

Show me Nokia's evangelist on their products? And I do not count message forum postings :D Nor is Dr. Jaaksi a good one to point to, because I was totally expecting him to be at the 770 re-launch, and he was nowhere to be found. Where are Nokia's "watch the keynote from today's n810 introduction" links on their website?

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

*sigh*

You're right. Like I said: change will be difficult.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I DON'T FRICKING BELIEVE IT!

TWO YEARS OF COMMUTING INTO LONDON AND I'VE NEVER MET ANYONE WITH ANOTHER ONE - UNTIL TONIGHT!

ARGHHH!! :)

On the bus back to London Bridge tonight, this old guy with a bushy beard (must be a techie, probably a COBOL guru) sits opposite me and whips out his N800! I leaned over and said he was the first person I'd ever met with another tablet and he confessed he only uses it to read books. :)

I showed him my official N800 case and he was mucho impressed as he didn't have any protection for his N800 which he keeps in his rucksack. He spent the rest of the journey reading, and stroking his beard thoughtfully.

Anyway, I now cannot say I've never met anyone else with a Nokia Internet Tablet. DAMN! :) And I didn't spot any iPods tonight either - NITs FTW!

:D

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

No offence to the Finns, but I reckon if Nokia wheeled out Dr. Stephen Hawking as the presenter at a press conference, he would be more entertaining and capable of displaying more enthusiasm for the product than most of the Nokia suits are ever able to manage. Nokia press conferences with Finnish presenters are frankly cringe worthy.

Take Kimi Raikkonen as a prime example of someone not ideally suited to promoting products. Any product. Even cars. Although I suspect he does it on purpose, the Nokia suits have no excuse.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

ROFL :D :D :D

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Hey! I've been at one of Dr Hawking's conferences. He's funny, and I'm not talking about his voice synthesizer.

So you're actually offending Dr Hawking, by comparing his wit with the absence of aforementioned in the Nokia drones.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

HaHa. Yea right. After what Apple and Nokia/Symbian did this year, and if Linux-based Intel MIDs go as planned next year, Windows doesn't have a chance of dominating the mobile device market.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

What do you mean by this? Yes, they are going slow, but that is just a consequence of their strategy and not the objective in and of itself. What is the rationale? Is it that they are unwilling to pour $$$ into SW development for fear of no ROI? Is it that they think there is not a profitable market yet? (see http://www.itweek.co.uk/vnunet/news/...ks-2008-mobile for WiMax analogy) Is it that they are unwilling to do advertising and marketing? Nokia DOES, when it wants to, develop and roll out products very quickly. So why not the IT?

As to some of the other comments (good thread btw), you seem to be measuring success, and right or wrong, merely by number of units sold. Probably the correct measure for most people, but for those of us who look at innovation for innovation's sake, the correlation between commercial success and innovation is notoriously low. As of right now, my inclination is to say that (not taking away from one earlier brilliant design which I will not name) Nokia innovated and proved the viability of touchscreen mobile devices with the 7700 in 2003 and the 770 in 2005. This is the case whether they sold 1,000 in a year or 1,000,000 in a quarter. And, no offense intended to their good work,Apple's first sale was 18 months later and noteworthy merely as a better implementation of the touchscreen UI.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

No, it actually is an objective.

You'd have to work here, I guess... :rolleyes:

I've actually come to at least understand the rationale I've been given, but that doesn't constitute full agreement. I think there's a better approach, but then, I'm just a pissant tech guy. ;)

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

The Finns should make all their presentations in June. You'd be amazed at the difference when warm sunlight finally hits them. It's like... flowers opening. Balloons expanding. Musical notes crescendo-ing. Crazy stuff. You'd think you were in Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. Months of frozen, pent-up frustration vents like male 40 year old virgins in a free whorehouse.

I'd recommend July as even better, but the whole friggin' country goes on mass vacation, leaving us nose-grinding Americans to run things for a month.

Hmmm... I just had an evil thought... :D

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Two days after the fact, I know, but I could not agree more.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

The phone is relevant in terms of platform control, something Apple have been very clear about from day one yet it hasn't stopped them selling product like hot cakes. The phone - or in actuality, the business model of kick backs which underlies the Apple iPhone business model - is the reason Apple have to apply constraints on the functionality that is allow to appear on the platform. Perhaps this will hurt Apple in the long term, perhaps not. Time will tell but I honestly doubt the lack of IM will hurt iPhones sales much if at all, even assuming Apple attempt to prevent IM which is by no means clear (we're just guessing here).

At the end of the day, the Apple restrictions thus far haven't stopped iPhones becoming successful, which to me just goes to show that open platforms won't be successful simply because they are open - well designed closed platforms can and will beat most open platforms quite comfortably, particularly badly designed open platforms. Why? Because *most* people don't care about open platforms. They just see good design and bad design, and choose with their wallets accordingly.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

In an unprecedented recent community action, the release of a proprietary VM layer with an unclear license and a time bomb (May 30th) with no direct interoperability to the Maemo OS, is received with great fanfare as NIT users are exposed to the 12 years old PalmOS.

Despite not taking advantage of the NIT's main physical advantage, namely the crisp high resolution screen, users seem to be able to look past that and sees the practical aspects of Palm OS apps.

I wonder if this has any impact on the development of NIT apps. Will they emulate their Palm OS predecessor more? Will some projects cease to move or slows down considerably due to the appearance of a working alternative? One of the biggest motivation for non-commercial project is for the creator to scratch their particular itch. Well, the Palm OS has scratched the itches of millions of users for the last decade.

PS: In other news, flying pigs were spotted near Des Moines this morning.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

i think there are a whole lot of experienced palm users in the itt community, thats all...

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Sure; because that way you get both good apps (with low-res) where none were available, and good apps (with high-res) where they are available... I don't think many people are planning on doing web browsing, or photo viewing, from in GVM; mapping is probably split, if the GPS works with any mapping programs in GVM, and PIM will be largely accomplished with GVM.
No; nothing here is about any superiority of Palm OS; it's about the existing apps.
Probably, particularly PIM; maybe some other stuff too.Yes, but Palm OS, with the devices it runs on, has some serious deficiencies. Emulating Palm OS can help reduce some of the device deficiencies, but impairs performance somewhat right now. The itches that were well and truly scratched are likely to come over with the GVM; but a lot of stuff was crammed into the Palms because that was the only reasonable hand-held platform for the authors, but may have still been cramped and sub-optimal. These things, if the N800 is a better fit, will probably be ported or reimplemented. (If they aren't already.)

People are happy with dosbox, VGBA, etc., but they don't abandon native game programming/ports. Instead, people are more concerned with porting Q2, ROTT, etc. instead of frogger et al.; why should this emulator be any different?

And a substantial part of any effort diverted from one project on account of a replacement is likely to go to some other open-source project. Programming isn't the sort of thing where you just pick it up because something annoys you enough, and then stop when the annoyance departs; open-source developers are developers; they've made the investment to be able to program, and will probably continue working on projects that scratch lower itches.
That would be unexpected; people being just as excited about a GVM release with full-screen mode and better performance as they were about the initial release is not.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

You know, that is almost literally what was said about running Windows applications in the WinOS/2 environment.

Luckily that one panned out so well for OS/2...

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Yes, and that's a very valid comparison, but I think the difference is that Palm OS is dying already to other competitors. If maemo dies, I can't see it being to Palm OS.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

also, it seems to me that there is a diff between a open platform that allows one to install anything, including a emulator for a older proprietary platfrom if one so wish, and a locked platform that by default (one can always play the cat and mouse game called jailbreaking) will only allow what the mothership approves.

hmm, somehow im reminded about the story about RMS and the other hackers of the AI did as a response to people having fun trying to find ways to crash the server. basically they created a new command that enabled anyone to crash the server at will, basically taking the fun and leet-ness out of being able to crash said server.

basically, i suspect some out there jailbreak the iphone and modify the appletv because they are not supposed to, or even actively opposed. playing bedroom anarchists basically. kinda like underage kids drinking and smoking because they are not allowed. makes one wonder what would happen to the usage rate of pirate bay if the entertainment corps put all their content online to download, no drm or anything else to limit its use.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I traded my N810 for the ITouch. No competition -- the ITouch simply works, works well and in every sense beats the N810. I can now delete this forum from my computer as there is no need for all the buddy support as the ITouch does everything we hoped the N810 would do (but doesn't) so no support is needed. Good Bye and good riddance Nokia and your crappy N810.


ps - I wont miss the "General" either and all his a-hole comments. Now you can suffer him without me.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Yeah, another fanboy's gone!!!!!!!!!

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

It does show that for many people comfort is more important than Open Source. Me, I'm just sad that it's so often an "either-or" case...

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Whatever; I'm not near as concerned about open-source as about flexibility. Happens there is a strong correlation, but even if the iPhone were as open, I think the N8x0 is much more of a hackers' device, and I think I'd like it more. And I'd say that, which is a genuine tradeoff, had more to do with it than the open-source angle.

As for my fanboy comment, just my way of saying the riddance was indeed good. (I don't think the sort of *****s who think that sort of post is not a complete waste of time can realize that they're the ones leaving, not the forum, and hence "good riddance" can only refer to them!)

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I accumulate gadgets like Katamari Damacy, so I'll probably end up getting an iPod Touch or iPhone at some point, to add to my 2 N800 tablets. However, I can't use an iPhone or iPod touch to make video calls from the road. I do like the size of the Touch a lot, but the inability to pair with a bluetooth keyboard and lack of flash support is a deal breaker for me right now. I am totally hooked on Nike+ for my iPod Nano. If it was added as an application for the touch, I might be pushed over the edge to add it to my arsenal of gadgets.

The whole fairplay DRM thing is moot to me because I never buy songs from iTunes anymore and I would never purchase music with DRM, especially when I can buy a used CD and rip the songs for less. I got burned by the "unauthorized computer" problem too may times with iTunes.

I have 3 PC laptops, one PC desktop, an EEE PC and a Macbook. Each excels at something that the others can't do well. The Nokia tablets are bit rougher around the edges but you get to experience a lot of cool things before they come to the more mainstream devices. But, yeah, sometimes I want to pull my hair out of my head when I have to flash the device.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Hmm, this thread seems to have run out of gas after nearly 500 posts... but at the risk of being called a fanboy by Benson, I'm pretty close to switching from my N800 to an iPod Touch 16G. My N800 has seen intensive use for several years, and the screen is starting to get trashed. I learned a lot about LInux and open-source, and I'll use the N800 as a web-browsing tool for as long as it lasts, but after a lot of experimentation I don't really use the two advantages the N800 has over the Touch: namely, Bluetooth keyboard connectivity and VOIP telephone. Meanwhile, I'm seeing a level of development for the iPhone/Touch platform that's exciting and innovative, while Nokia has taken its huge lead in this category and let the N8xx platform languish in hobbyist/hacker limbo. Which is a fine place that I've enjoyed, but it's starting to feel a like like a museum rather than the next cool thing.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I don't get it. Everyone says "Holy itouch does it, and n8x0 not! Crappy n8x0!"
What the hell exactly do you mean? Faster browsing? Yep, when 1 tab is opened. Awesome music player? With no i-radio support, yaya. Seamless video playback? With converted video. So what the **** is so awesome with an iPod? Ah, maybe updates for cash and crappy screen, ok.
I've used iTouch for 2 weeks and got it back cause it does nothing better than n800.
P.S.: Games on itouch are supercrap. Accelerometer steeering is uber crap.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Ok so I bought an iPod touch 8g (2nd gen) and have been an owner of N800 for about 1 year too. I am no apple fanboy and use Ubuntu as my primary OS (with Vista as second). Heres my unbiased opinion :

a) iPod touch is a good Mp3 player. The sound quality is way better than the N800 especially with good earbuds (not the bundled crap). Its still not the best sounding player but its still pretty good. The battery life when playing audio only is also much better than the N800.

b) iPod touch does not do skype though I am now told that finally apple is selling a mic+headphone for the touch for $30 and that it will enable me to use skype via fring. But this is untested and so currently N800 is a lot better at VoIP particularly since it comes with mic inbuilt and decent skype support.

c) Mail, Facebook : The mail app on the touch was very easy to setup, works consistently and is pretty responsive. The N800 mail apps have been very lackluster and I always had problems with most of them. On the N800 I just use some webmail interface.
The Facebook app on the touch is also pretty awesome. I dont think anything comparable exists on the N800.

d) Chat : No background apps on the touch and hence chat is lame. N800 wins this one.

e) Browser : I actually dont use the browser that frequently but the speed of both browsers seemed adequate for the types of site I browse. However I do prefer the larger screen of the N800 for browsing so N800 wins this round.

f) On screen keyboard : The keyboard on the touch seems to be in the portrait mode which basically means a very small keyboard. The on screen keyboard on N800 is much better and has better precision when using stylus. Thus N800 wins this round.

g) iTunes : I dont like it and the fact that I have to use iTunes to manage my iPod is rather lame. Thankfully though Apple has moved much of the management functionality to the device itself.

h) Boingo : I dont know whether its possible to use this service on the touch. I use it frequently on the N800.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

my guitar player has a touch with 4 track recording software that he bought from the apps store and works quite well (he can plug in his guitar with a 3rd party line in cable as well):

http://www.sonomawireworks.com/iphone/fourtrack/

there is also some beat making software that looks very impressive:

http://intua.net/

i was wondering if there is similar software for the n8XX or s60? as i have an n800, n810 and just got a n95-4 (nokia fan?)

i'm very interested in this "studio in your pocket" headspace. i've used recorder to get down some quick ideas.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I guess Benson could forgive you when your N800 screen breaks and you buy an iPod, meanwhile, please...

Don't use the word switch...

It's the same wrong idea over and over, like saying:

"I'm switching from carving funny sci-fi characters in wooden doors to swimming in a pool filled with milk with penguins from Galapagos island"

NOT THE SAME :rolleyes:

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

Just a final word on this...

It is an old blog post, but it was just the very reason why I chose a tablet over an iPod.

http://tabletblog.com/2007/09/ipod-t...ing-other.html

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I, almost embarrassed to admit it, bought an iPhone 3G the other day, after much prompting/begging from my wife to obtain a pair for our "Christmas presents". Originally, I had my eye on the more open (and keyboarded) G1, however T-Mobile's network is very bad here (inconsistent EDGE max).

I'll state this from the get-go: I have a very very large distaste for Apple as a company. In many ways, I am almost your key Apple anti-fan-boy. Now, with this said, I'll relay my experience with this iPhone for the last few days (Note - I very easily jailbroke the phone in about 5 minutes - so my experience likely is different than those whom bow to Apple's dictations):

a) As Randomshack stated, the iPhone does make a better mp3 player than my n800 in both ease of use and quality of sound. I am not sure I would agree with the battery length - however the iPhone likely is much more of a juice sucker than the Touch.

b) My iPhone, with Fring, can do Skype VoIP. Normally, this is limited to only with WiFi, however there are "unofficial" third party apps that will allow it to be done over G3.

c) Mail - In "general", the iPhone's mail app is simpler to use than the various apps I used on the N800. For simple checking mail and responding, it excels. It easily connects to both my gmail account and my corporate Exchange server. While of not apples to apples, the perk of having push email anywhere rocks. Now the downside: the iPhone's mail app is limiting. There is less functionality than that of the various n800 options. It is slightly less pleasant to read, due to increased scrolling. But for 90% of the function, it is easier/faster.

d) Chat - Fring does pretty much all common chat programs. The Backgrounder "unofficial" app allows for running any program in the background. Hence, Fring can stay persistently running on the iPhone. With that said, screen real estate can be an issue on the iPhone.

e) Browser - The iPhone's browser "feels" faster at loading. With that said, playing the constant "magnification game" doesn't make for a long term pleasant browsing experience. While fun at first, it gets old. The n800's high resolution screen rocks on most sites, and it's flash support is yet another perk. To note, on iPhone enabled sites, the iPhone does excel. Also to note, many of the larger sites have specific iPhone native apps as an alternative.

f) Keyboard - On screen keyboards suck in general and each time I look to buy a new pocketable toy I swear it must have a keyboard, yet I haven't ever bought one. With that said, I do have to say I prefer the iPhone's keyboard (even in portrait mode) over the n800's. Speed wise, I can type much quicker with it. I suppose truth be told, the full screen keyboard on the n800 would be as easy or easier, however I don't like that it reverts to a different screen. (Side note: I would *love* to see an iPhone app to emulate a BT Keyboard to be used with my Nokia!)

g) iTunes - Heck with it - I don't use it for much. For transfering files, I either just scp into my iPhone (yes, there is OpenSSH for iPhone as an "unofficial" app) or use iPhoneBrowser for Windows to drop in files - anywhere I want - not just where Apple dictates I can touch files.

h) Boingo - Never used it under the Nokia - however to note: AT&T provides free Wifi access to iPhones at any of their hotspots (e.g. Starbucks, McDonalds, Airports, etc.) - mighty useful!

i) Video - This is a frustrating bit - ideally, the Nokia would be a GREAT video player with it's high-rez screen if 1) Nokia used a better framebuffer and 2) Nokia would pay for the damned license for the HW video accel. Realistically, most downloaded videos need to be converted for either device, however the iPhone supports a much higher bitrate than the n800. I noticed mPlayer and VLC are available for the iPhone - I haven't tested these on it yet, but for mp4's, the iPhone performs beautifully with the built in player.

j) Applications - Looking at the applications available for the iPhone, there is a startling array. Within the Appstore, there is just a huge quantity (although, mostly paid for but cheap - average seems $1-$2)). A lot are utter crap, but there are some really unique ones. But this is just the start of the fun. Apple, in their domineering ways, only allow apps that they approve of in the appstore. The fun gets all the better with Cydia, an "unofficial", apt based file distribution program. This is where all the apps that Apple won't approve of end up, and also the place that can make the iPhone into a real platform. Here, you have things like OpenSSH, teathering programs, terminals to the underlying BSD shell, GCC, Java Classpath, Python, Ruby, Sudo, VLC, mPlayer, etc. (The lists of applications on the default repositories look very similar to the applications availble for the n800). In many ways, the applications are more refined than the n800 equivillents - for the most part everything has a consistent UI. I haven't tried most of the development based applications, but it appears there are real possibilities to develop without buying into the Apple monopoly.

k) PIM - Sorry, I never have been fond of any of the available Maemo PIM software and I have to say, I am a bit shocked how well the iPhone's did work. The contacts can sync from gmail and Outlook. Meeting requests sent to me via my company exchange server get added to the calendar (which also can sync with google calendar and outlook). Really, I think it is superior to the PIM experience I had with my old Palm E.

l) Games - The n800 has a few decent games, no doubt, but it's gaming capabilities is not it's main focus by any means (now if Nokia ever made drivers for the capabilities of the device....). The iPhone has a hoard of games. Some, are pretty bad on all fronts. Some are graphically beautiful, however they are more "traditional" games slapped into the iPhone with very poor emulation of typical control schemes (onscreen control pads suck. Driving by tilting sucks.) Some, however, are designed for the capabilities of the iPhone and these often have very amazing and new gaming experience, utilizing the multi-touch and tilt in pleasing ways. Overall, the iPhone seems to be a better game platform, however, Apple is smoking some good stuff if they thing they will bankrupt Nintendo and Sony by competing against the DS and PSP. Real hardware buttons are needing for a full broad ranged gaming experience.

All in all, I love my n800. I love it's beautiful high resolution screen. I love the spirit of open source software that it brings. I love the fact I can hack it to my heart's content, without anybody saying "Hey, you shouldn't do that". I love that it can, slowly, bring a desktop experience in the palm of my hand.

I am also starting to have a warm spot for the iPhone. I like it's unique capabilities with multi-touch. I like the beauty of style of most of it's software. I like the fact I can toss a big middle finger up at Apple and take ownership of it away from them and back to myself with easy-to-perform jailbreaking. I like still being connected anywhere I go, with or without wifi.

Some of my main interests right now is to get teathering working between the two. If I could get the iPhone to act as a BT (or other) keyboard with the Nokia, that would be great also (I suspect, if nothing else, I could utilize VNC for the iPhone to do this).

I think both devices have good merit and in a lot of ways, could complement each other. End result:

Nokia n800 Pros:
- Much much better LCD Screen.
- More convenient and cheap media (SD Cards)
- Easy to port desktop Linux apps to (although, often these apps work sub-par on the NIT)
- More capabilities within common applications.
- Easier, more defined development options.
- Runs Linux
- Better browser

iPhone Pros:
- Much much better touch screen.
- Faster access to the large built in storage
- More "refined" UI and professional looking/working apps.
- Easier/faster to use Applications.
- Runs BSD
- Better Media playing

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

its funny how half the features come from "unofficial" solutions.

im guessing thats another word for jailbreak, meaning that the feature may stop working at the drop of a hat (firmware update)...

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

It's worth noting that McDonalds in the UK provides free Wifi access to any device.

Should be: "- Much better browser"
Add: "- Stereo speakers built-in"

Add: "- Includes a phone".

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

I 100% agree that for the device to be brought to it's real potential, jailbreaking is necessary. The risk, however, is rather small - when the updates are applied, it just un-jailbreaks the phone again and one has to re-jailbreak it, assuming that it is available for the newer firmware. The main risk with updating is if the phone was unlocked (e.g. not carrier locked). To note, Nokia ships the NIT's without root access also - jailbreaking is very similar to "gainroot" in effect. Most of NIT's advanced functionality also comes from "unofficial" solutions (e.g. Debit, most 3rd party apps).

And indeed, I would agree with the "Much better browser" comment. Likewise, the iPhone's built in speaker isn't worth a darn. Also toss in the FM Radio on Nokia's camp.

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

one can also access root via RD mode, thanks to the linux flasher (windows users are out of luck unless it works under cygwin or something)...

and nokia do not attempt to close "gainroot" each update...

and if they really wanted to, nokia could have made app manager unable to have any repositories listed by nokia's own.

all in all, nokia, while not perfect, is much more user "trusting" then apple...

Re: iPod Touch (threads merged)
 

If the new iPod touch had real GPS with routing, I would say it is better then the N810. If there were more iPod like apps on the N810, then the N810 would win hands down. Seriously, it boils down to More Apps vs. Free and Open Source with less apps. I wish we could have More Apps vs. Tons of Free and Open Source. Oh well...