Re: TabletGate 2016
 

Meizu's Ubuntu runs like a normal device, videos show..

Re: TabletGate 2016
 

Yes, both Meizu and Jolla phone are normal devices. :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I have no experience with UT (experiences reported by other people here were enough to put me off) but the above applies to my Jolla just as well :(

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

No idea what you're on about, in terms of fluid UI jolla is up there on par with WP (not sure on iOs as only used ipadv2 on latest update and it was not smooth, far from it, apple store loading time >> warehouse updating repos and UI freezing to top that, similar when warehouse updates an app), android was the worst hands down, then again my father installed the kitchen sink there, so might be better in normal use conditions. Native apps + UI multitasking, WP is far behind, try switching back to the app you just used, on jolla instant, on wp seconds of reloading if it even takes you back to where you were, hardly ever (on 920 so not budget device)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

With quickditt, webcat, network switcher and email open, opening settings still takes ~1 second for me, have few tweaks around oom, but doubt this would cause much difference. Or are you 'make'ing huge project in the background?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I just checked with a stopwatch, to make sure I am not making it up.
With nothing running at all, opening Settings takes on my Jolla...

• ~2 seconds from app launcher
• ~4 seconds from a shortcut in events view

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Without stopwatch (and tweetian running on top from last setup) still ~1 second, weird

edit: seems to be a threshold when swapping kicks in, adding extra apps had no impact on speed, until ytplayer, calculator, notepad, nethoggs and network monitor were opened, went down to 3 seconds, still better than UT with 5 seconds opening on fresh system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9PawCz_UjU

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Szopin, Pichlo, what version of the OS are you running? That might introduce a slight difference.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

2.0.1.7

It is possible that I round 1.5 seconds up to 2 whilst szopin down to 1.
It is also possible that our expectations differ. As far as I am concerned, even one second is a "noticeable delay". I remember my Palm 12 years ago, with a 6x slower CPU and 100x less RAM that started applications instantly. I do not compare my Jolla to some mythical CrapPhone that may be even slower, I compare it to a 12 years old piece of kit that was faster.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yeah, CASIO switches in an instant, but when we're talking >64kb devices like jolla or galaxy or iphone boot times grow naturally and complexity, no idea if any android apps are written in assembly arm 64, they can shave some kb there

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Wait a minute, you were saying you run 1 gig ram device and browser worked fine?? You had instant applications there, or was swapping an issue, that is like an extra second?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I don't know where that came from but as it happens, yes, I am typing this reply on a 1 GB device. And guess what? The browser does indeed work fine. It starts instantly, not in 3 seconds. Also, no reloading when you switch between tabs; select&copy work fine, as does search in the page; no disco lights when loading a page with more than two images; the pages load in an instant; the battery lasts about a week... No, that device is not my Jolla. It is my daughter's one year old Lenovo tablet, running Android 4.1.

I use a Jolla as my main device. I have my own reasons to prefer it over other systems but I do it in a full knowledge and acceptance of its shortcomings and I do not succumb to the illusion of its grandeur. Sailfish is far from grand. It is a slow, inefficient resource hog. It is at least 5 years behind the curve and too conceited to admit it and learn from the competition to even try to catch up. In a word, it is too little too late. I like it and use it not because I think it is the "best", whatever that might mean, but despite knowing very well that it isn't.

Sorry about that little rant. It is well past 1am and I am tired. But I had to somehow vent my frustration when I see so much denial as I have seen in the past couple of pages in this and this thread. Good night.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Wow, android conquers the desktop, pichlo, the guy who was against >64kb bloat went android and praises it, instant firefox load and webpages also at 0s lol, not even S6 does that ffs

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

The problem that it's opinion. Saying "faster, better and etc" is not different than telling "more mature".
What versions were compared? Why you call those flagships? IS HW on both similuar to compare and when it was done?
I bet any UT fan would say exact opposite opinion btw.

And meanwhile regarding stability and maturity — "Stopping 'Internet Sharing' causes reboot" https://together.jolla.com/question/...causes-reboot/

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Does this mean that if there is an regression in some update, the whole platform should be considered unstable and immature? And does this criteria apply to every platform or only those that need to be bashed for some reason? :)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You don't get it, do you. I do not praise Android. I say, look, even bloody Android that everyone knows for and uses as an example of its inefficiency can do things faster and manage its resources better than "super efficient" Sailfish. Your emperor is naked, dammit.

And I never said "Firefox". I said "browser". As in, the pre-installed, stock browser. The Android's equivalent of Sailfish Browser. I have no idea how fast or slow Firefox is. I have never felt the need to try since the default browser does everything I ever wanted it to do just fine. All I can say is, if Firefox is slow, then it is squarely Firefox's fault. I do not ask what A does better that it out-performs B. I ask what B does worse that it cannot keep up with A.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Whaaaat? :eek: Of course! How can you even ask such a question? :confused:

All, of course. Not only those that need pretending they are faultless for some reason.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There is difference between regression and something that triggers rebbot. Especially when it's not first time where modem/data realted issues triggered reboot.
And yes it's unstable if it randomly reboots.

It's not about bashing, it's about saing that UT is less mature and Jolla is more stable just to say that with no proper explanation, where I provided an example of those assumptions being false and that I still would like to hear the real example and explanation and not any overrating "my os is best" from BOTH (not only jolla but UT as well) sides.
Currently I see both are not mature enuf. but UT is FOSS at least

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

The state before the OOM killer was worse though. The OS was basically unusable at that point and Jolla lost a lot of users, including some I knew personally. I thought Sailfish really matured after they got over that and the other problems caused by the Qt5.2 migration, just before the tabletgate stuff kicked off. Alien dalvik finally managed to run background services reliably, general performance and fluidity increased. It's a shame they lost that momentum.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Like those funny text messages that reboot your iPhone? It's not that uncommon you know. :)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Why?

Which reasons? (I also use my Jolla as my main device - despite its mediocre calendar and the lack of system-wide copy and paste)

I am just curious what drives you to use the Jolla.

Maybe your answer could give this thread a more positive spin.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

So fun to start an OS war and see it evolve :D

its fun reading while waiting for the Jolla stall/delay blog post.

Anyway. Next will be awesome with MWC! I wonder if Jolla tablet will win any review prices this year.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

But how you can call your system better if you make same mistakes.
And yes they failed too and we laughed, when Jolla fail we find excuse - don't you find it ironic. At least treat fails on all sides equaelly

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Do we?

Remind you that my personal preference after Sailfish actually is iOS and we have one of those in our family as there was no compact Sailfish device available when needed. I don't say Sailfish is absolutely and objectively better, I just reminded that such bugs appear and reappear on other platforms too and as they age and get more complicated, it's likely to get more frequent. Such things happen, no way around it. On comparison to UT, I consider Sailfish more user friendly and polished so in that regard it can be said that Sailfish is better - it doesn't mean it's better for everybody. Wouldn't it be boring if there was only one universal OS to rule them all.... ;)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Seriously, what do you mean? Silica components support copy and paste, globally. If I select text in an application, it gets copied to the clipboard and I can paste it into text controls elsewhere. Do you just mean the poor support for it in the browser? You can still paste into text fields, and do both from the address bar. Saying that Sailfish has no global copy and paste is a bit dishonest when you just mean the browser application.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You are right - I mean poor support in browser, email and calendar. So I cannot blame saifish.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

"Global copy and paste" as a phrase keeps coming up (mostly from the celebutrolls) but they actually mean "copy from browser and some non-editable text fields". The first is app-specific (and half implemented, but hidden), the latter may require something new in silica and then apps to flag only certain strings (like, you don't want EVERY string of text to be long-hold copiable, right, copying your battery percentage would be a bit of a strange use-case)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Three things:

1. The fact that Jolla (the company) does not even provide the "cloud" services that everyone else pushes their customers to use. I prefer to be in charge of my own data.
2. The familiarity of the environment. The command line, the directory structure, the development paradigm.
3. The possibility to do development directly on the device. An SDK is an absolute no-go for me for various personal reasons.

Those three things are enough for me to stick around, despite the daily frustration the damn thing bestows upon me in almost every other aspect. If at least half of these points were addressed then I would be in the seventh heaven, even without a proper select&copy in the browser and working folder support in the email client.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I do! (Yes, including the battery status.)

BTW, I want not just the text. I want the formatting too. If part of the text is in a different font, underlined or whatnot, I want that preserved when I paste it in an application that supports text formatting. I want to select and copy a section from a website including pictures.

But most of all, I want a damn separation of "select" and "copy", as outlined in point 2 here.

You know, nothing big. Just some sensible default :)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I have a friend who at this point would berate you for your Windows ctrl+c ctrl+v heresy. But he still calls it a buffer. :)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

@vitaminj: As you might rightfully guess - I am just looking at "copy and paste" from a user's perspective, without looking what is behind the UI. And I indeed see your point. On the other hand: why wouldn't you allow to mark and copy each sort of string that is visible to a user - even the battery percentage? At least, that would be something I would call system-wide copy (not paste).

So maybe it is more about the copy-part than aboout the paste-part. Pasting should indeed only be allowed in those fields that are provided therefore - as it is right now.

Another issue is off course the way you copy without keyboard and ctrl-c (as, for instance, with the N900) because you might want to reseerve the long-click for other Events than copying.

And just as a side-question: what is a celebutroll? I guess I am supposed to be one, but I have no clue what it means. Plus: trolling is not my Intention, so please apologize if I made the wrong impr4ession.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

@pichlo: thank you! Plus: I fully agree with you regarding selecting and copying ("Some questionable decisions in the VKB design. Whose genius idea was it to combine select and copy into a single action? So I cannot select a piece of text and replace it with the contents of the clipboard because the act of selecting puts it in the clipboard. Arrrgh! ")

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I never used Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V. I found Ctrl+Ins, Shift+Ins far more memorable.
Until I started using the N900, that is. Then I had to learn :)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There are plenty of other applications where you'd want to select text and copy it that does not work.

Unless they've changed it recently and I've not noticed, Mail is a prime example. To copy text out of an email you have to first reply to a mail so it's quoted in your reply. Then you can copy text out as it's an input now.

But, I wouldn't call people dishonest. When you've an OS that is missing so many 3rd party apps you have to rely on the browser a lot so having a substandard browser there too is a second slap in the face. The browser could solve the app issue but two years on, it's still frustrating.

cue someone saying the source is on github, go fix it yourself.... 3.... 2....

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

ah, the IBM indoctrination runs deep.

Always found that really awkward after using Macs, Amiga, BeOS, Later Windows. I must use Command-ZXCVEFG dozens if not hundreds of times a day for the clipboard/buffers on a Mac while editing.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I can go one better:

https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfi...ssue+clipboard

It doesn't even seem to be a registered issue on the project! WTF! Someone go copy and paste all this into a new issue and... oh wait.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Wtf https://jolla.com/tablet/ sold out, before I gott one :eek:

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

My god, how perverse!

Ok fair enough, I can see how it might be helpful, but yeah it would interfere in e.g. lists that have a long-hold menu or similar.

No, sorry, not you, I made up the word from "celebrity troll" and I mean Dave999 and anyone else who always turn up like clockwork whenever there's a system update and go "Have they done global copy and paste yet? No? Imbeciles!" without really explaining what they think is missing apart from the browser copying which, yes, is a little bit rubbish.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Lucky for you. You wont hear it since there is almost no updates anymore :D

If you read the user experience thread you will find what I'm missing and my suggestions.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

What no yank and put talk from vi? No emacs kill and yank?