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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Off Topic (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19)
-   -   Let's talk Nokia stock! (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56370)

MINKIN2 2012-05-14 14:42
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jleholeho (Post 1206548)
Man, you totally love iPhones, don´t you?
You´re actually not a WP sheep but a proper iSheep...everytime some comparison or competing between platforms comes up around here, you´re always bringing up stuff about iPhone.
What´s the barrier, though?
Why don´t you throw away all your Nokia "dumbphones" and get at least 15 overpriced, white-gayish iPhones 4s, so you´ll be satisfied forever and ever?
It´s totally clear that you´re not actually a Lumiaman, you´re just another iSheep, exactly the same as I see everywhere I go in a developed world...
I can see how an iSheep would twist that article as proof that Apple is better than Nokia.

There are so many omissions in those few paragraphs that it does not really explain well enough that during 2004 and 2007 Nokia was in full production with multiple handsets and OS's, creating new technologies in not just a fancy UI and creating App stores but Telephony services with other large organisations (ie Motorola & FCC) where they were consultants in 3g technologies as they were previously with 2g. These are just a few examples that they were working on in a global scale back when the iphone was still a dream in Steve Jobs's head, so of course Nokia's R&D would have been vastly greater than Apples.

Now when Apple came along, they were just building on existing tech and they did it bloody well. But they did not have to put the same out lay down like the old players as the technology had already been created. Apple just concentrated on streamlining and bringing these tools together, which was a successful move for them.

As for the articles comparison to last years R&D profits and losses between both companies, lumiaman appears to have conveniently forgotten every single piece of Nokia news from the last 14 months post the burning platform memo just for the sake of an idiotic post.

Lumiaman 2012-05-14 15:26
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBeam (Post 1206554)
Well, I and some analysts beg to differ (not that I give a lot about other analysts, but I give a lot about my own opinion :D).

This is what Andy Perkins (Societe Generale) writes:

"We believe that to date most attention has been focused on Nokia’s deteriorating handset position. However, we are perhaps more concerned with the rapidly deteriorating cash position. Firstly, by excluding NSN from our calculations we find that the company actually went through over €900m in the first quarter alone. Secondly, we find that the handset division could burn though €1.6bn this year in operations. Thirdly, total handset restructuring costs could total €2bn over the next two years as the company has to downside rapidly. We reason that the extremely fast fall in revenues will require very large cash restructuring charges to reduce expenses in line with lower revenues. We now forecast an additional €2bn in charges for Nokia’s Device & Services business over the next two years. However, if Nokia follows a similar trajectory to Motorola, there could be a further substantial fall in sales with further restructuring. On our calculations, such an additional fall could be enough to burn through most of Nokia’s existing cash pile and even bring into question Nokia’s very survival. At the moment, this remains an alternative scenario to our base case, but it can’t be ignored.

And sorry that I talk about Nokia's stock (down another 5% scratching the $3 mark on the NYSE).
They still have 16 bln equity on hand. Look under the balance sheet:

http://ycharts.com/companies/NOK

Lumiaman 2012-05-14 15:30
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MINKIN2 (Post 1206563)
I can see how an iSheep would twist that article as proof that Apple is better than Nokia.

There are so many omissions in those few paragraphs that it does not really explain well enough that during 2004 and 2007 Nokia was in full production with multiple handsets and OS's, creating new technologies in not just a fancy UI and creating App stores but Telephony services with other large organisations (ie Motorola & FCC) where they were consultants in 3g technologies as they were previously with 2g. These are just a few examples that they were working on in a global scale back when the iphone was still a dream in Steve Jobs's head, so of course Nokia's R&D would have been vastly greater than Apples.

Now when Apple came along, they were just building on existing tech and they did it bloody well. But they did not have to put the same out lay down like the old players as the technology had already been created. Apple just concentrated on streamlining and bringing these tools together, which was a successful move for them.

As for the articles comparison to last years R&D profits and losses between both companies, lumiaman appears to have conveniently forgotten every single piece of Nokia news from the last 14 months post the burning platform memo just for the sake of an idiotic post.
they spent 9 times as much to produce Taliban phones? OH my! Apple R&D is not only iphones, but computers, ipods and other derivatives. It is therefore amazing, that with all the money input, we got N900 that was not bad, but NOWHERE as OPTIMIZED as it should have been by the time of release (sorry, PRE-ELOP era). I realized then, that NOKIA lost it. ELOP saw all the waste, and that output was mediocre in terms of OS and optimization. You have to cut waste, and looks like NOKIA did not get its bang for the buck

user/zero 2012-05-14 16:35
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Lumiaman, would you kindly consider terminating your talk.maemo.org account? Haven't you already come to terms with the fact that all you're achieving is uselessly increasing the message counter while your messages fall on our deaf Linux-lover ears? Accepting one's sickness is the first step towards curing :D
Or at least let us know that you spam for a living. Although those money would be better spent on some new R&D work if you ask me, I wouldn't say no to stereo speakers after having enjoyed them for 3 and a half years on N81. :D

mikecomputing 2012-05-14 16:46
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1206469)
Nokia's stock value -7% again.
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/els.aspx?...D&symbol=NOK1V

WP-tragedy is well earned.

http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-...bile-partners/

They should fire Elop and make a real PlanB.

A good thing is, everyone sees Microsoft does not belong to mobile world. Every time it tries, it makes catastrophes and ruins companies which have strategic alliance with Microsoft.
And now how old is THAT article?

all the stock has gone down today cause of the damn southeuroppean mess especially one country...

Not everything is because of Nokias problems...

Cue 2012-05-14 16:58
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoxir (Post 1206534)
MS can not destroy the mobile market which will outgrow the desktop market very soon, I believe they would even give up their desktop dominance for a big chunk of the mobile one that's why they ruined windows by making win 8 o horrible hybrid of desktop and tablet interface which imo will be their train to becoming irrelevant
They will not destroy the mobile market, that's true, but to me they seem like they are holding back on features, specs and programs so that the laptop is still a necessity for anybody who buys a WP. Its reliance on Zune software, it's poor office app, lack of video output/docking to a monitor, that sort of thing. They want you to buy both a pc and WP even for tasks where the PC is no longer necessary. They make far more from their Windows license. Nokia will fall behind like this.

Lumiaman 2012-05-14 17:07
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by user/zero (Post 1206619)
Lumiaman, would you kindly consider terminating your talk.maemo.org account? Haven't you already come to terms with the fact that all you're achieving is uselessly increasing the message counter while your messages fall on our deaf Linux-lover ears? Accepting one's sickness is the first step towards curing :D
Or at least let us know that you spam for a living. Although those money would be better spent on some new R&D work if you ask me, I wouldn't say no to stereo speakers after having enjoyed them for 3 and a half years on N81. :D
trying to dispel myths about Elop destroying your dreams, has nothing to do with Linux lovers.

specc 2012-05-14 17:29
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1206631)
Linux lovers.
You mean Lovers like this ? :D
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1315/7...344bfae5f5.jpg

zimon 2012-05-14 17:34
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1206623)
And now how old is THAT article?

all the stock has gone down today cause of the damn southeuroppean mess especially one country...

Not everything is because of Nokias problems...
Nokia was downgraded once again:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...8GE5U520120514

Greece is just business as usual :-) It has and will be like that for years.

szopin 2012-05-14 17:37
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Penguins with bellybuttons???
I can't say I mind


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