maemo.org - Talk - Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments)

Update from Jolla blog

*Update* We have just recently shipped a batch of 77 devices to backers who earlier confirmed their order in the Jolla Shop. "

Does this mean that they are sending out 77 to people that ordered via the shop ie not original indigiogo backers or do they mean the original indigogo backers who have confirmed that they still want a tablet via the shop?

robthebold

2016-03-02 21:20

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1500445)

That's a bit intense. Did you consider greylisting? That's a little less in-your-face, while still weeding out all the spam relays.

I have no idea if my forwarding service supports that. I've honestly had no reason to touch the configuration in years, and the config page isn't responding today to check.

I do see that I have received emails from Jolla before, but none since October, the "Jolla Tablet: Important news from the helm" message, which seems to have originated with the mail chimp mailing list service. Has anyone else been getting other Jolla Tablet IGG campaign updates by email since October of 2015?

Dave999

2016-03-02 21:38

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenecho (Post 1500453)

Nope.
IGG backers have to confirm their orders in the shop. They mean INdieGoGos.

This is people who payed tax last year.

att	2016-03-02 21:40

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1500451)

it sounds like Indiegogo don't really support refunds (so much for all those claims about their terms etc. :D )

I suspect it is due the campaign already being closed. In other words Indiegogo handles possible refunds until money is transferred to campaign owner at the closure of the campaign.

billranton

2016-03-02 21:53

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1500458)

I suspect it is due the campaign already being closed. In other words Indiegogo handles possible refunds until money is transferred to campaign owner at the closure of the campaign.

Most campaigns that end up failing do so long after the end of the campaign. I think we can assume that refunding at that point isn't something that often occurs.

Yeum	2016-03-02 22:20

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1500458)

I suspect it is due the campaign already being closed. In other words Indiegogo handles possible refunds until money is transferred to campaign owner at the closure of the campaign.

Yep, IIRC Jolla noted somewhere (comments in blog maybe?) that they recieved a single, large lumpsum from IGG on the campagin close. In other words, Jolla has no access to the actual contributors credit card transaction details that took place on IGG, which is why a direct card refund is impossible/difficult (even ignoring the very long time between the transactions).

Makes the whole paypal thing more understandable.

nodevel

2016-03-02 22:32

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenecho (Post 1500453)

No, I think that those are the first IGG backers.

Remember, in the fall there was a first batch of IGG backers invited to finish their purchase (pay VAT) in the Jolla store. Most of them received their tablet, but not all of them.

I am pretty sure the 77 tablets went to these first contributor that have been waiting having already paid the VAT.

lancewex

2016-03-02 23:18

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodevel (Post 1500450)

Well, do the first thing that comes to mind - write to Jolla! :)

Just create an issue on Zendesk and then you can normally communicate with the Jolla Care via e-mail. From my experience, they are quite fast to respond recently and have always been helpful. I'm sure they'll take care of that.

What is Zendesk? I've sent messages to them twice through their site, but just by following "contact us" type links. The second time was just today, but the first was long ago....and I got no response.

nodevel

2016-03-03 06:22

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancewex (Post 1500464)

It's their official support desk. You can find links to it on their site, like here:
https://jolla.com/support/

or you can go straight there:
https://jolla.zendesk.com

Back in the day, you could just write an e-mail to care@jolla.com and an issue on Zendesk would be automatically created, but now you need to do it through the web interface. They should get back to you quite soon, though.

Dave999

2016-03-03 07:52

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

So Jolla managed to send 77 tablets? Where is the rest? I thought Jolla wanted closure not drag it around for another year or two.

Where is the rest. Speed up tablet shipment and refund please.

tommo

2016-03-03 08:15

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1500458)

I suspect it is due the campaign already being closed. In other words Indiegogo handles possible refunds until money is transferred to campaign owner at the closure of the campaign.

I used paypal and it was paid directly to sales.hk@jolla .com, so I imagine their account has a huge list of people that paid via paypal.

Elpo	2016-03-03 09:37

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodevel (Post 1500462)

I am pretty sure the 77 tablets went to these first contributor that have been waiting having already paid the VAT.

Nope. I'm within the first 77 and haven't received any confirmation about regarding delivery, nor has the status of my order changed to "picking".

att	2016-03-03 10:24

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1500489)

I used paypal and it was paid directly to sales.hk@jolla .com, so I imagine their account has a huge list of people that paid via paypal.

I also paid via paypal for the Indiegogo campaign. In the receipt it just says Jolla Asia Ltd and there is also personal email address ending with @jolla.com. But according to Carsten Munk at here Jolla got the money as one large sum from Indiegogo instead as multiple separate payments.

Dave999

2016-03-03 10:52

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elpo (Post 1500494)

Nope. I'm within the first 77 and haven't received any confirmation about regarding delivery, nor has the status of my order changed to "picking".

You might be 78?

mosen

2016-03-03 11:05

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

meeeh, final summary of my late yoybuy try:

also the other 1298yuan seller does not deliver for that amount anymore. He declined the order from yoybuy and asked for ~80$ more...
In total wanting even more than 1888yuan.
Nice business practices over there i must say.
Both seller still list the tablet for 1298 at taobao
In the EU, admonishment spitting advocates would be all around.

Lets see how the prices develop once the last official ones are delivered. Taobao sellers seem to expect quite a run from desperate "westerners".

r0kk3rz

2016-03-03 11:32

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1500497)

Looks like IGG treats pledges from Paypal differently to CC based pledges. Which may mean different things for how refunds get processed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiegogo

Unlike similar sites such as Kickstarter, Indiegogo disburses the funds immediately, when the contributions are collected through the user's PayPal accounts. Indiegogo also offers direct credit card payment acceptance through their own portal. Those funds are disbursed up to two weeks after the conclusion of a campaign.

Dave999

2016-03-03 12:07

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1500499)

Told you. It's a scam!

Jolla starts the scam an now the snowball keeps rollin...

gerbick

2016-03-03 13:33

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1500509)

Told you. It's a scam!

Jolla starts the scam an now the snowball keeps rollin...

You've found your one note that you're sticking to regardless... guess you've found purpose behind that word and think it's applicable here. It's not. Failure is the operative word here...

Failure to communicate clearly. Failure to deliver devices en masse to backers. Failure to explain all of the obstacles and hurdles due to systems not really being built, nor plans made in case of failure to deliver. Worse of all... failure to cap such nonsense but allowing it to continue when more precise words exist to explain what's going on.

I've no clue how else to state this; perhaps my last time addressing it - I can't repeat myself ad nauseum without losing some civil decorum.

Folks are receiving their tablets through some rather odd methods, but they're getting them. Often with Sailfish OS still installed. Their input has been coming in more and more recently and it's actually pretty cool to see that all are saying one continued thought - shame that all didn't get one.

lancewex

2016-03-03 13:39

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1500499)

Did your order ever have the status of "bought" on Yoybuy?

ZogG	2016-03-03 13:43

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

I wonder if those who got refund from credit card company would get extra refund from Jolla twice and how Jolla would check it.

juiceme

2016-03-03 13:46

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1500523)

I wonder if those who got refund from credit card company would get extra refund from Jolla twice and how Jolla would check it.

I would not put it past this one "you know who" guy... :eek:

lancewex

2016-03-03 13:48

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodevel (Post 1500475)

It's their official support desk. You can find links to it on their site, like here:
https://jolla.com/support/

or you can go straight there:
https://jolla.zendesk.com.

I got an unhelpful reply this time from Jolla.

"At this point, we are not accepting any changes to contact details. Not until the frontend solution is up and running.

Your best bet is to, therefore, stick and stay with us on the Jolla Blog.

We realize this is not ideal, however, the frontend solution will enable you to provide an alternative/current email address for futher correspondence and it will be linked with your original backer email address in our backend to ensure/enable proper validation."

Makes no sense to me. How can this "frontend solution" confirm it is me if I can't access my email when/if this occurs?

gerbick

2016-03-03 14:06

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1500523)

I wonder if those who got refund from credit card company would get extra refund from Jolla twice and how Jolla would check it.

I would think that via a separate system, the transactions that were overturned and paid back are a known entity. One would think that they've planned to ensure that no double dipping is allowed here.

mosen

2016-03-03 14:53

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancewex (Post 1500522)

Did your order ever have the status of "bought" on Yoybuy?

No, it was always,"awaiting Purchase" (by yoybuy).
Then yoybuy changed status to "Item not deliverable" then "refunded" in first case and in second case they informed me that the seller wanted more money and asked if i would like to pay. When declining, status changed to "refunded" also.

Yoybuy is not to blame. they brought flawless service.
Only the 12h time difference hit me, i always contacted them when it was night over there causing some latency.

tommo

2016-03-03 16:12

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1500530)

Think they are planning to make single dipping as hard as possible :p

Drekkie

2016-03-03 16:39

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1500523)

I wonder if those who got refund from credit card company would get extra refund from Jolla twice and how Jolla would check it.

I'm sure they would speak up immediately and tell jolla, especially the people who were so critical about jolla's integrity during the campaign. Especially the anti-scam crusaders. Now they could really demonstrate their moral highground in deeds.

gerbick

2016-03-03 17:22

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drekkie (Post 1500543)

I truly doubt this. Sorry. But if it benefits a person unfairly, they'll oft rationalize it as "they're a big company" or "they've scammed others in the past" and silently keep it and call it a day.

Human nature is odd that way. Critically scrutinize everybody else, apply lesser rules to themselves.

Dave999

2016-03-03 17:31

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1500548)

Yes, that is the reason why this refund is so important. It's not the money.

pichlo

2016-03-03 17:45

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1500548)

I have heard claims that the Americans do not understand irony.
I do not like stereotypes like that but your post proves it :)

Drekkie

2016-03-03 17:55

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1500548)

I didn't actually believe what i typed, and agree with more along the lines of what you said. Rationalizations about karma or who knows what would be the likely justifications. Hopefully its a hypothetical that doesn't happen; i'm fatigued on this whole novela.

gerbick

2016-03-03 18:18

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drekkie (Post 1500554)

Rarely do I tend to assume, but I assumed that your biting sarcasm could have been altruistic, if not slightly naive.

Instead, my latter words either echo your intended sentiment and my initial words was unnecessary that I doubted your statement and the rest fell in line with what you were implying. Or my initial statement was an unnecessary entry/counter and I overlooked your original intent fully.

Either way, sounds as if we agree. This entire cluster**** of a situation has been handled in a way that's tiresome. And ultimately... I've rethought three crowdfunding projects since this fiasco - backed none since (to be honest) due to recently gained distrust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1500551)

I have heard claims that the Americans do not understand irony.
I do not like stereotypes like that but your post proves it

I take absolutely no ill-will from this statement whatsoever. Sadly... it seems as if I have confirmed an oft-repeated stereotype. But gladly, I can laugh at myself quite easily and frequently.

Dave999

2016-03-03 21:24

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

So not even all that payed tax last year have got their devices. That means that Jolla manage to ship one tablet per day with current speed if 77 tablets was sent. That is fun info :) so it would take more than a year until all 463 sees the hands of their new owner. :D

tommo

2016-03-04 09:58

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

https://jolla.com/jobs/

Things are looking up, new jobs at jolla!

NokiaFanatic

2016-03-04 10:01

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1500616)

https://jolla.com/jobs/

Things are looking up, new jobs at jolla!

So all that tablet money was to just pay themselves! What a scam! :D

Dave999

2016-03-04 10:06

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic (Post 1500617)

So all that tablet money was to just pay themselves! What a scam! :D

Indeed!

Fix your legacy before you hit you head in that wall again! If money is gone and no full refund happens it will be a double scam. :eek:

tommo

2016-03-04 10:17

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Wonder if they can find a new position for Marc dillon, he can come back and spearhead 'jolla tab 2' :p

pichlo

2016-03-04 10:40

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1500616)

https://jolla.com/jobs/

Things are looking up, new jobs at jolla!

Good job, good for them!

However, under requirements for the Qt/QML Engineer, "have multiple years of experience in C/C++"... I wonder, what is that mysterious C/C++? Did they mean C and C++? What on earth do you need C for in Qt and QML programming?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1500618)

If money is gone and no full refund happens it will be a double scam. :eek:

Having seen your post for the past 6 months, I thought the double scam was reached back in December. This would be at least an octuple scam :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1500621)

Wonder if they can find a new position for Marc dillon,

I hope not. Some people here seem to like him for some strange reason but he is partly responsible for what Jolla is now - a horrible mess :(

tommo

2016-03-04 10:59

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1500623)

I hope not. Some people here seem to like him for some strange reason but he is partly responsible for what Jolla is now - a horrible mess :(

I'm with you on that one!

It's good that they are looking forward again, but just makes me think they will end up in the same position of too many staff not enough income.

Dave999

2016-03-04 11:14

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1500623)

Having seen your post for the past 6 months, I thought the double scam was reached back in December. This would be at least an octuple scam :D

I'm with you on that one!

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