Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

and more importantly, its a feature phone, not a smartphone (iirc)...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

No, I don't expect Apple to use OMAP3, since they're using Samsung at the moment, and it's gonna be out in late 2009, then it's gonna be behind the N900.

I'm not sure what your argument here is, anyway, but, for good measure: :rolleyes:

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Benson,

I have a Nokia 3555 too and, if you are still interested, I installed Opera Mini from here.

I agree with you that this phone only works as a modem.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Amen.

This being said, the N800/N810 is bloody good hardware. Maybe we should concentrate on making what we have really useful. It would not take that much effort to polish the present software to quite decent levels.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I don't know what the aim of the tablets is. I only know what I need and what I'm willing to spend money on: a tiny laptop-replacement.

Sometimes I feel there's not only a languages barrier here... It really feels we have two incompatible types of brains. I may understand your words, but I don't understand the way you think so it's difficult for me to answer.

What fails? We have desktop apps on the NITs and they work perfectly. I don't see the desktop paradigm failing.

I have to admit I don't consider myself a general user. I made the experience that what I want is usually a niche product. Actually, I was prepared for the 770 to be a one time only so I'm still somewhat surprised the did the N800 and the N810...

Anyway: My job is not to do market research about the general user (I couldn't care less). Also, I don't think there such a thing as "the point of mobile devices." - I carry several kinds of mobile devices, and I would be very upset if my tablet would be like my phone or my phone would be like my music player. (And I guess my mother would be more than upset if her phone would be like mine...)
There's a point in simplicity when you want it. And there's a point in a rich UI when you need it.

(One more thing about the "general user": It's the market everybody fights for. It might be a wise business decision to concentrate on a few niche markets, too, as long as they're not too small.)

Right, mobile apps can complement the desktop apps in function and extend it that way. That's what I'd expect on my mobile phone.
Then, as an additional device, I have my music player because although my cell phone does play music files, in many situations it's too big as a music player.
And, as a third device, I want a portable computer. I would have a laptop, but it's too big for me. Therefore I chose the 770, now the N800. And the applications on my mobile phone can still complement the desktop applications on my N800-computer.......

Oh, and: The concept might in fact be doomed in a way, at least in the Maemo context. Nokia threatens to introduce a "finger friendly" UI with Maemo 5, which probably means wasted screen estate, less effective UI (more clicks to achieve the same result), less accuracy... This could in fact make it much harder to do anything useful with the tablet.

But until then we'll have quite a lot of alternatives out there and I expect smart people to make it even easier than now to run alternative OSs (like there's Debian etc. already) on both the Nokia tablets and other devices. So in a way, whatever Nokia does to the Maemo UI, as long as they allow people to choose a different OS that better suits my need, I'm fine.

EDIT: One more thing: Even if I'll be using some other OS instead of Maemo 5 - if Nokia really pushes and supports all these upstream projects, chances are that I'll be using most of the core technologies that make people excited about Maemo 5 in, say, Debian on the N900 or in Ubuntu Mobile on whatever esoteric hardware I'll buy. Isn't this world beautiful?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Brontide, what part of increasingly is not registering?

Slow down there buckaroo. Now you're trying to tackle two arguments simultaneously, which I was not.

Let's step back a bit in this dance.

You commented as if Nokia was locked into the typical (for any manufacturer) covert development mode. I pointed out that openness has been (steadily, conservatively) increasing.

That's it. That's all. You want to argue other points and positions, great! Just keep them separate and please don't muddy the waters. The signal-to-noise ratio in this thread has already degenerated into static thanks to the usual provocative and misguided hand grenades tossed in.

EDIT: oh, and I acknowledged the grey shades. See "this is not black and white" statement.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Didn't I aready cover that with my statement

:)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

@nilchak: Then let me have it! :D

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Actually the UI is not half bad if you turn off most of the toolbars, put the remaining toolbars on the sides and go fullscreen. Some of us actually do use OOo on the tablet "for a long period of time;" perhaps we are already insane (by your definition), so that is why we are not driven there.

Evolution e-mail's UI, on the other hand, isn't very usable on the tablet. They don't let you change the layout enough.

I do need to say one thing; I know that desktop UI is not very nice on a handheld device. But, given the choice of a full-featured office suite with a desktop UI and a crappy little text editor with a nice mobile UI, I'll probably choose... both. Sometimes you need one, sometimes you need the other.

Seems like every coffee shop around here has as many laptops as there are tables. What's your definition of taking over the world?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I dunno, have you seen the Nokia job boards lately? They're hiring like crazy for maemo. I only wish I could do that stuff. But they don't seem to have any positions available under "annoying know-all gadfly generalist"

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Oh I wish Nokia actually granted my wish too ... and then after keeping my cake, I could actually let you have it :D

Yes we all got to wait till Nokia lets us have it... I have been thinking I will sell off my N810 and wait for the N900 .. but, but ...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

It uses WiFi. My ISPs SIP server is sip.xs4all.nl, port 5060. Same for proxy. My ISP isn't blocking any ports for I can define which ports my ISP should block, and its only blocking incoming SMB/CIFS. Not SIP. And certainly nothing outgoing. In fact, they want me to use SIP, and I do with a POTS phone connected on my DSL modem. But I'd like to use my NIT as well. Again, with Gizmo and Fring it works, with the normal SIP client it doesn't.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Heheh. Coffee shops != the world. I was thinking more people walking using a laptop instead of texting with their phone, working on their laptop while driving, etc. And making all the iPhone people shut up -- that's a mandatory element of taking over the world, for me.

Now you know why I don't see any device as being that awesome...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Not sure about the pockets around the world nowadays but laptops and nettops don't fit in my pocket.

Tablets and phones do. Its difficult to make compares, for sure. It really depends on the purpose of the device.

I mean, take GeneralAntilles as example. For him, the N800 is a laptop. Well, no wonder he wants to run specific applications on it someone else would run on their smartphone or nettop/laptop.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

You need a trench coat. ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I recently sat on a Maryland beach with my N810 WE and used it to make restaurant reservations for Alexandria Virginia that evening. I would not have had my laptop there.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Sounds like you need a baseball bat, not a new tablet.

EDIT: Not to actually hit anyone with, lest I sound too brutish or violent. You just have to glare and wave it threateningly. Those bling-addicted wimps will shut up after one look in your eyes.

If they are too busy with their toy, you might have to tap them upon the backside of their cranium. Gently of course.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Which beach were you on? I am trying to figure out the coverage.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Tiniest one in the world I think: Chesapeake Bay.

But I wasn't using WiMAX service, just the tablet. Still, there was an access point in the vicinity. One in Great Falls, VA too, amazingly enough.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I noticed that here in Vancouver there seems to be a lot of open APs with "default" or "linksys" or some such name. In Berlin, every access point was named, and almost all of them were WPA protected. I was quite surprised.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

great thread, and really interesting stuff - I've always seen my 770 then 800 as a "mini-pc" so these developments are very welcome.

a couple of things - the main usage for me for this "mobile hand-held pc" is by its nature out-of-the-house, in fact i just realise I haven't used my 800 over the last month while I've had no away trips... so I'm one of those "the 770 hard shell was a great design" people. I hope that the 900 will have some kind of "wow" design factor innovation.

but one question for those who were at the summit/or might be in "the know" - the talk of maemo 5 and the 900 sounds very, very promising - but is this still only step 4 of 5?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Their Apple owned toy.

Some of the aspects of the iPhone are nice though. Learn from them like they learned from others.

Consistent GUI is nice. Full screen is nice (especially for people without attention span). Skyhook API is nice. Application popping up in your face (like possible with Compiz) is nice. Waiting a minute when you typed a 'S' in your addressbook is not nice. Bad 3G chip is not nice. Vendor lock-in is not nice. And so on. :)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Recent court ruling proved that according to German law one is responsible for whatever happens on their connection/AP. You might run into stuff like APs for FON, Boingo, T-Mobile, and so on though.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

You do understand that in this statement that you have validated the statement that the user interface, that is the screen that you utilize to be most productive within an application's use context, needs to address mobile use right. You actually invalidated the statement that the desktop UI (not UX, which is user experience and another layer completly) fits the tablet ;)

FYI: we probably would be best to stop talking about UI and UX considering there was almost nothing of substance to pull from impressions or notes since the dev conference was more about the foundations that lead to making an improved UI and UX easier to manage. If you will, the tools are the attention to UI/UX, the output from the tools (interface, useage cases, programming rules, stylesheets, etc) is what we should evaluate. And those won't be able to be done in context until the SDK and a live device gets into our hands.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

How much of the fremantle UI was shown?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

All of it. You may talk freely.

Go on. Really, it's okay!



Alright, they showed a few slides of "design exploration" during the Maemo UI Vision session and explained the goal is a more document-centric design.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Document-centric?
Got notes for that term please?
The semantic (document) side of me has thoughts, and it could be good, could be bad depending on the context.
Thanks.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I have been enjoying this discussion and trying to figure out where I land in it, being simply a user of the N800 not a programmer or software developer. I am happy with my N800 simply because it does most of the things I want to do with a computer when I am not at my desk. I can listen to music, watch a movie, check email, write email, play games, take notes, check discussion groups on line. My desktop computer does my heavy lifting. How much heavy lifting do I need on my NIT? Not a lot.
What do I want? Better, more polished software, a larger main memory so I don't have to clone the OS, a better camera or none at all, a built in network adapter so I can use it where there is internet but not wireless, longer battery life, and maybe some other stuff I haven't thought of. Just keep it cheap.
I look forward to using my N800 exactly like I am using it right now for years to come. Hopefully in that time someone will write an application that will make it possible to listen to audiobooks on the N800. Then I can park my Zire 31.
The N800 is not a phone.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I would need more details on your setup, especially this "with a POTS phone connected on my DSL modem" to give a meaningful answer. And, for the third time, please open another thread to discuss sip configuration.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

All I can say is that the published release schedules for alpha and beta SDK seem currently rather valid to me.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...o-maemo-5.html

Ryan Paul wrote a good summary on what was talked about the UI in summit...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

That's typical in both the UK and the bits of France/Germany I've visited. Finding an open AP in San Francisco was trivial, pretty much anywhere. Such a use-case doesn't work in the UK.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Simple market dynamics, at least in France. All DSL providers here deliver a set-top box that is a modem, a router, a firewall, a Wifi AP, a VoIP gateway and a TV streaming device. Thus nobody buys their own router/APs anymore, which were often installed in their default configuration by unknowing users. The ISP boxes are WPA (and sometimes MAC)-protected out of the box, and so open wireless (which was often involuntarily) has all but disappeared during the mass rollouts of the last few years.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Isn't the (already shipping!) Archos 5 equipped with a OMAP3 CPU?? Is this one different from the one expected in the N900?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

According to the news reports it uses a OMAP35xx processor.

Must be the 3525 or 3530 as it has a DSP apparently.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Yes. I've read it likely uses either the OMAP3525 or the OMAP3530.

Yes. The device Maemo 5 targets will likely use an OMAP34xx. The OMAP34xx series has a smaller ball-pitch and will sell in larger volumes than the OMAP35xx series.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

If it's not that bad, I may try it... Do the zoom keys work well? I tend to use them more than most other users I have discovered. What would be nice is to havesomething where we can map the toolbars to the switchview key and then scroll to an item using the d-pad. I liked that feature when it was featured on the 7710; I don't know if it will make it to maemo 5. It seems like the switch view has been mostly relegated to a show/hide key for the status and task bars. Please correct me if you know if I am wrong.

I don't mind desktop apps being available. My concerns are: 1) that maemo 5 discards some of UI features in the lieu of a more desktop like environment; 2) that the only variant of the N900 will have a keyboard; and 3) we end up with a lot of mediocre ported desktop apps instead of good maemo apps.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Well, it's not exactly checkmate, but it is a point for the debate team :D

I encourage comments on UI support issues. I had to read a lot of irrelevant VoIP over HDPA comments on this thread so please indulge the Ui dialog. Thanks.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

on the topic of ui:
http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/ub...rst-boot-video

anyone else getting a deja vu from that one? ;)

funny how canonical is going that way when nokia is going iphone/canola...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Good to know we still have a choice when Nokia goes for the high school market.

Ah... choice! I wait for the day when I buy a little tablet-like device without OS and decide at home if I want to install Maemo, Ubuntu Mobile or any other distro made for it - the same way I did with my desktop PC. It's only hardware, isn't it? :D