Re: Ask the Council!
 

Sorry for the deletions, guys, but I really mean to get this thread back on track.

That includes you too, abill_uk.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Hang on here you can not allow a post from geneven about me and i not respond to it, stop being one sided please?.

Delete my post ok as long as you delete his too, only fair.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I'm not going back through every post. I posted a warning, and afterward it was ignored. I'm acting from the point of the warning forward. You're free to protest my choice to the admin. But this thread will stay on topic going forward.

EDIT: okay, I see geneven's post was after mine. Fair enough. Deleted also.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

What sorts of discussions are off track in a thread called Ask the Council? What is the topic?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

See the start of the thread.

Anyway, it's been devolving into personal attacks and rebuttals lately and one thing I can say is that's not on topic. My apologies to the forum for not being firmer sooner, but again, that's not my usual style.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Texrat, in the first post you invited responders to ask the council "whatever you like". You might want to reword that, since Abil!_uk's "noise" and by extension my "noise" and how the Council could or could not respond to either are clearly off limits.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I meant of the council. Hence the thread title.

Why am I having to explain that?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

*facepalm* Geneven, "ask the council whatever You like" doesn't mean "post here whatever you like about whatever topic You like, just mention something about council in one random sentence, and it's okay".

I expected a little more grown-up behavior from You... At least not publicity pushing Your purely personal exchange of posts here. Use PM or E-mail guy, please... This thread is messy enough as it is.

Ps.

I coul also use PM - I admit - but I'm afraid there are more people than just geneven, who could at least consider use other means of communication, for topics *totally* uninteresting for other forum members. That's only one rationale why I also posted here, unwillingly contributing to useless fuss :(

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Thanks Estel. I figured it would be self-obvious that the issue is with posts directed at one member by another. As you say, oblique references to the council and rhetorical questions tend not to cut it. That said, my main objection is with the bitterness. I don't mind levity. We could sure use some.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Thank you Estel and Texrat. By treating Abill_uk and his spotless behavior so evenhandedly, you have succeeded, finally, in getting rid of my scurrilous behavior. Congratulations.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

And thanks for the sarcasm. I'd delete your post since it was just more spam, but I can only imagine what the next one would allege.

NOW can we get on topic?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

It's so hard to understand, that (as Texrat explained few posts ago, but - sure, you could miss that in all of the fuss, including Yours one) Council *can't* do anything about banning nonsense posters, cause it's only up to reggie, and his supermoderator, chemist?

I agree that it's unacceptable way of things, so I posted about it (in appropriate thread, not going to repeat here). I hope that, along with transferring project maintaining to community, "ownership" of communication board will be also straightened, ending current nonsense of "one all-mighty eclectic person that may or may not respect Community (also via representatives = Council) wishes and decisions".

Still, leaving lack of rationale behind Your behavior (raging, in fact), do you think that information about Your leaving - if you're planing to - is so interesting to all forum members, that worth to post is "ask the Council" (sic!) thread?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to depreciate You or your contributions to community. I don't want to sound bro'ish, but just chillout, and read last few pages again. And, if You're really interested in straightening things that doesn't work now (like supermoderation), help to make our community fully legal entity as quick as it's possible :)

//Edit

Ups, sorry Texrat - we were writing posts simultaneously. I also hope that we can, finally, get back on topic...

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I think it is funny that Texrat's attempt to get this thread back on topic has generated even more noise (13 more posts)! :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Everybody are complaining about "noise", but why do we use the thread for asking the council?

A modest suggestion:

Using issue tracking system makes much more sense, since in that way no question would be lost unanswered, and I believe the noise would be filtered out.

The question is: which issue tracking system?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

This thread is not for issue tracking, but community/council engagement. We have bugzilla for actual bugs, though.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Question: is everyone on the council and the mods are still fully committed to maemo?

I'm throwing this question out there because there's been some huge changes (mainly from Nokia) midway of this term and I think it's fair if anyone needs to reconsider their stance toward Nokia/maemo.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Of course I can't speak for council - and don't try to - but I'm afraid that answering this question, would require to first clarify what we think about when we say "Maemo".

For me, Maemo is Open Source Community - just like many other great Communities, be it Debian, LibreOffice or even, more narrow, like KDE, GNOME... I don't care about fact, that we're not "Foundation" by any country law - we can become, and I think we'll finally do.

Considering that, for me being devoted to - for example - Cordia on Meego core, is still in spirit of Maemo. Doh, even if - for some reasons - we conclude that supporting Meego CE (CE Ui on Meego core) instead of Cordia is better approach, this is also right with "spirit", I think. Going in evolutionary steps - supporting so much older hardware revisions as we can (In this case, N900, cause if I understand correctly, Meego core on N8xx/N7xx is impossible, both by performance reasons and some other constraints), while looking forward and, if no one want to create device suiting our needs, create it ourselves (at first attempt, using existing, but still 100% compatible one, like CordiaTAB is doing, but later, designing our totally own).

If, by being "devoted" to Maemo, You mean sticking to Maemo 5 only (or with CSSU at most), I doubt You'll find many devoted people, cause it would be like sticking to Amiga OS (which I love, by the way) - nice sentimental/hobby thing, but without much practical use, at least compared to other alternatives. also have in mind, that "Maemo" name is almost certainly lost, due to Nokia unwilling of donating this trademark (just like Oracle did with Open Office - no big deal, it's LibreOffice now)

At this point, there is nothing better "on market" for real power users, than Maemo (with N900). We want to keep it, no matter under what name. I want to say in 2-3 years, that there is nothing better than Cordia/Meego CE/ whatever, and we're using it and contributing to it.

I know that other platform are also evolving, but, if in 2-3 years objective point would be, that - for example - android is currently best, that would mean almost no real evolution at all, IMO. I really don't believe that any other platform for mobile devices will aim @ so much openness as our current Maemo/Cordia/whatever-name-You-like. And, to make things clear, it's all due to Community effort - Nokia have contribution at beginning (for starting this) but it's rather big troll now (think abil_uk mixed with epitaph mixed with partially supermoderator powers mixed with Fidel "I'm busy now, leave me!" from JA2), than real partner in contributing. No offense mean - It's just metaphor. Despite that many Nokia employers (current employers) are very positively towards us, Nokia as a brand is PITA for our efforts for loong time already.

IMO, faster we cut off our connections and become totally independent entity, the better.

So, considering that, do you think i'm devoted to Maemo? and, do you think this question can be answered directly, in current circumstances, by anyone?

Ps.

I protest from using Nokia/Maemo as one thing :D Nokia != Maemo. currently, Maemo seems to be quite opposite for Nokia ;) (all wp7 mess, all N9 mess, all N950 mess, all #WONTFIX and wont relicense...)

For a quite long time, it seems that most of mactive community members are rather hostile towards current Nokia. Or, at least, neutral -.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I didn't mean to go all conceptual/existential with the question. I meant those who are still interested and engaged with what remains of the 'maemo' community/development teams.

Membership on this community is non exclusive and there are a whole lot of other venues to channel your support for FOSS movement, so why this particular one?

My question was in reference to the limited number of council members who are engaging the community discussions on this forum. (yes, I should also look into mailing lists)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

This is another perhaps more moderator-oriented issue, but could something be done about the increasing number of threads/posts inciting people to illegal acts like selling devices that don't belong to them, leaking other people's copyrighted code and so on?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Precisely what I mean, I did not use word "issue" instead of bug for nothing. Still, bugzilla can be used as well. Issue is something that has much general meaning than bug.

We just need to view "Ask the council" as a organisation project.

I am very certain 90% of the questions were unanswered by the council members, although some of them got answered by the people who are not Council members.

The problem is obviously, that Council members don't read this topic, except for SD69.

They need to be notified by an e-mail each time the question/comment is posted, and what is more important the order of comments has to be preserved in a context specific manner, unlike the present situation where there are many questions overlapping and additional "noise".

And let's just not forget "bumping".

Re: Ask the Council!
 

@lma: actually, that thread (assuming you're referring to the n950 one) does not specifically say anything about buying devices that don't belong to the owner.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Oh we can play coy all day long but the facts are that all N950s in existence belong to Nokia and they are not interested in selling them, period. Asklng for one is equivalent to asking one of the loan recipients to effectively steal it, or worse, asking someone to mug one of those developers, steal the N950 and sell it to you.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

That's an insightful question. The answer is No.

While I respect people's opinions, if you don't want to volunteer your time to maemo any more, fine, but you should move on gracefully and not try to take deprecate maemo before you go. As a council member who is trying to move the community along, it is quite frustrating.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Ironically, the person you are replying to is another council member ;-) See http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council for complete roster.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

You've got me there. :o
I've assumed all council members are recognisable through signature.

In either case thank you for pointing out to useful information. I am embarrassed to admit, but I've failed to find it few days ago. :o

I still think most of my points about asking the questions and answering remains.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I would like to. Although it has worked OK in the past, the problem is that talk.maemo.org is now a bit of a problem. See Estel's comments:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75782&page=7

I can only say that, if we organize, then the forum situation can be addressed as part of it.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I beg your pardon, but what??? :confused:

EDIT: ah, I see Ima informed you.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Those are a whole LOT of assumptions.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

We disagree quite a bit there. Asking is asking. There is no harm in it. I don't support wasting anyone's time on addressing those requests until and unless they become spam (eg, one person persistently begging).

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Ok, perhaps my imagination is failing me so I'll ask: how else do you propose one obtain an N950 in order to sell it?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Well I dunno, thats why confidentiality is assured!

PS. It is not a crime to talk about committing crime.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Except for prostitution (US only?) but there's a crazy exception for every rule. ;)

In this case *I* have no issue with people talking about wanting an N950. I don't blame them. And even an offhand "I'd beg borrow or steal to get one" is not an issue. Again, for me it really comes down to additional context. I hate a broad approach for the most part...

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I just cannot believe the talk on this thread right now and for one nobody in this world should be selling a 950 let alone advertising it on a Nokia forum? and as for not being a crime to talk about commiting a crime your so wrong there trust me !.

EXAMPLE = start talking about your going to blow up the houses of parliment on the internet anywhere and see how quick they come to get you :p.

That thread should be deleted and all talk of selling the N950 from this community.

IF you must sell it then go to EBAY ok.

PS vi_ your mad :p.

AND ysss your mad too :p. ;)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

afaik nokia does not publicly BAN the sale of the n950. Until that happens, then we are open to possibilities of n950 for sale somehow and we'd like to get dibs on that.

@lma: I've answered your question on that thread instead, since I didn't think it's particularly on topic for this one anymore.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

"Stay on target... stay on target!" -Gold Five leader

Re: Ask the Council!
 

And why would it be assured if the expectation was the device would be acquired legally?

I'm not saying they should be reported to the police, I'm saying I don't think such discussions belong in a civilised maemo.org community. Apparently I'm alone in this, so be it.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I wouldn't say you're alone. In case I didn't make my position clear:

• no problem with offhand remarks
• big problem if it becomes a running theme

Re: Ask the Council!
 

lma, you're not alone here - in fact I'm sure 905 of people get You point. Personally, I do, but I just could not care less about N950/N9/Nokia. Yea, I know, it's not civilized - we could as good talk about stealing maemo source codes from Nokia HQ (that would be equal productive and equal uncivilized - both rated at 0). Maybe I'm just such a bastard caring only about our (community) future, not Nokia loses, that's why I haven't commented before.

Anyway, I think we got small chance to blow death start with such a target focus - unless someone use Dark side of the Force on this thread ;)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

As hopefully all of you knows we are currently running our Coding Competition 2011. The Competition timeframe ended at the end of July except a single category.
Last year we used a forum poll with all his benefits and flaws. Because of the stormy discussed flaws we got a advice to use the next time the more secure Council election system.

The coding ended, the updates are locked, the developers are waiting, everything seems prepared but now we are stucking since 3 weeks in preparing the voting process, unable to find a good contact person and our main organizator appeals more and more puzzled and frustrated. :(

Please, could one of the Concils step in and help us to get our fantastic coding competition to a happy and succesful ending?

Please visit this Thread and help us. We got a link to a wiki page. But we don't know how to get access to the parts we need and moreover we don't know how to use it without breaking our good old maemo.org infrastructure. ;)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I thought Texrat was helping you out, at least that's what I saw many months ago when the banner went up. Have you contacted him lately and what did he say?


Done.