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-   -   Another proof Elop is a trojan horse (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74660)

Rauha 2011-07-21 10:52
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1055300)
Q2 numbers are in.
symbian is dead.nokia lost 700m dollars. half billion euro.

this is WORSE results than expected.

gj Elop you managed to make something no nokia CEO managed to.

wp7 not only have to be a success to make huge profits.

that means more than galaxy s II numbers.

16,7m smartphones sold... elop killed nokia and gave the marketshare to apple and samsung.

nokia is THIRD smartphone manufacturer.
Stock up over 3%

Results are lot bad, but lot better than expected.

Correct about Symbian. Elopcalypse finished it in few months.


EDIT: +4,75% now.

bbin 2011-07-21 11:04
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1055300)
this is WORSE results than expected.
LOL! I really don't know what you expected but at least the market expected far worse :D

Get a grip dude. How can you sell symbian smartphones right now?

It will be 2-3 more bad quarters for Nokia until they will start to sell more. At least they are predicting to have more cash by the end of the year ;)

I think it's lot better to sell decent products, drop to number 3, make profit and gain more ground from there.

Stock +6.52% now :D

jo21 2011-07-21 11:06
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...y-who-app.html

@bbin in what world? stop dreaming, i doubt they will recover.

they were alreadying losing money and the CUT THE PRICE 15%, bringing more loses.

bbin 2011-07-21 11:17
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1055318)
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...y-who-app.html

@bbin in what world? stop dreaming, i doubt they will recover.

they were alreadying losing money and the CUT THE PRICE 15%, bringing more loses.
You really want to link Tomi Ahonen? If you have followed him for any longer than 1 year you know that he is the worst "analyst" in the blogosphere :D

I remember him writing pieces like this: http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...t-phone-7.html

Give me a break.

Rauha 2011-07-21 11:19
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbin (Post 1055317)

Get a grip dude. How can you sell symbian smartphones right now?
After Elop ditched it before Nokia had anything to offer in its place? Bloody impossible. From slow and steady Symbian decline to armageddon in few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbin (Post 1055317)
It will be 2-3 more bad quarters for Nokia until they will start to sell more. At least they are predicting to have more cash by the end of the year ;)
Where is this extra cash coming from? Apple finally paying license fees? That could explain their prediction. The first payment is going to be really big.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bbin (Post 1055317)
I think it's lot better to sell decent products, drop to number 3, make profit and gain more ground from there.
If they can do it yes. I don't see much hope.

erendorn 2011-07-21 11:20
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1055318)
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...y-who-app.html

@bbin in what world? stop dreaming, i doubt they will recover.

they were alreadying losing money and the CUT THE PRICE 15%, bringing more loses.
this blog as much as yourself seem to have no idea what you are talking about.. Results are indeed better than expected by the market, see the stock for yourself.
Also cutting the price means more sales. May I remind you that nokia does not only have manufacturing costs (ie, per unit), but also fixed costs (R&D, management, factories, aso..)?
Do you have any figures on them? How could you know then that decreasing the price will decrease benefits? Or is that also your "business sense"? ;)

jo21 2011-07-21 11:24
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbin (Post 1055323)
You really want to link Tomi Ahonen? If you have followed him for any longer than 1 year you know that he is the worst "analyst" in the blogosphere :D

I remember him writing pieces like this: http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...t-phone-7.html

Give me a break.
he was on spot on sales this quarter.

nokia not even 20m range. and passed by both apple and samsung. and they are not even making money. 700m dollars lost.
a few months ago they were outselling both combined.
they even cut the 15% prices so dont expect any profit soon.

the dumphones are making more money than smartphones now.
and of course they can't sell symbian, after abortion elop said.

microsoft better start paying people to buy nokia smartphones, because right now wp7 are tiny.

Rauha 2011-07-21 11:26
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by erendorn (Post 1055326)
this blog as much as yourself seem to have no idea what you are talking about.. Results are indeed better than expected by the market, see the stock for yourself.
Also cutting the price means more sales. May I remind you that nokia does not only have manufacturing costs (ie, per unit), but also fixed costs (R&D, management, factories, aso..)?
Do you have any figures on them? How could you know then that decreasing the price will decrease benefits? Or is that also your "business sense"? ;)
It's just the latest of Tomi's angry rants. He did get one thing right.

"We are witnessing world record destruction of a brand"

Nokia circa 2009-2012 is going to be in many business study books as interesting example of epic downfall.

jo21 2011-07-21 11:29
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
to make it more funny.

they even lost money being pay 430m euro in royalties.

so it was far worse LOL-

tweets from analyst, and phone business people like tomi and eldar are hilarious.

nokia broke so many failure records this quarters.

and apple profits ones.

bbin 2011-07-21 11:36
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1055337)
.

they even lost money being pay 430m euro in royalties.
LOL! Oh man, you're breaking my heart :D

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...76K01W20110721

You clearly have no sense of source critique.

Rauha 2011-07-21 11:38
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1055337)
and apple profits ones.
No point in comparing Nokia to Apple anymore. They have not been in the same peer group since Elopcalypse.

The question in my mind is whether Nokia should now be compared to MS OEMs like Acer and Dell or are today's results such that Nokia is now becoming the next Motorola.

mikecomputing 2011-07-21 11:42
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy (Post 1054734)
Surely - that's Apple..?

EDIT: In response to mikecomputing's last comment, above :o
Are you kidding me !? are you saying apple is cut&paste from Windows?

Atleast apple gives back to opensource (Webkit is one). What has Microsoft give the community?

Just pain in the *** IMHO.

If I did only have two options, WP or Iphone. I would go Iphone thats for sure. Same goes for computer OS.

cpscotti 2011-07-21 11:44
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1055346)
No point in comparing Nokia to Apple anymore. They have not been in the same peer group since Elopcalypse.

The question in my mind is whether Nokia should now be compared to MS OEMs like Acer and Dell or are today's results such that Nokia is now becoming the next Motorola.
More like Foxconn maybe..

mikecomputing 2011-07-21 11:44
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1055337)
to make it more funny.

they even lost money being pay 430m euro in royalties.

so it was far worse LOL-

tweets from analyst, and phone business people like tomi and eldar are hilarious.

nokia broke so many failure records this quarters.

and apple profits ones.
Eldar trustly source yeah right!

bbin 2011-07-21 11:46
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1055346)
Nokia is now becoming the next Motorola.
I think it already is minus the fact that Nokia still has some form of its own smartphone OS.

mikecomputing 2011-07-21 11:48
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meego99 (Post 1054779)
I returned back my NOKIA e6. Couldnt hack my corporate email. No wonder symbian is going away.....
Ofcourse Exchange is a properaty crap comming from Microsoft. And you wonder why non Microsoft crap is not working on non Microsoft OS? Well ask Microsoft! Theyre not intrested to let it work 100% on another OS than theyr own garbage.

abill_uk 2011-07-21 11:52
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
By the remarks on here it is clear many hate Elop and it is blinding you all.

Even talking as if Tomi T Ahonen is even slightly correct and obviously another Elop hater.

Rauha 2011-07-21 11:52
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbin (Post 1055355)
I think it already is minus the fact that Nokia still has some form of its own smartphone OS.
By "next Motorola" I didn't mean having their own OS. They clearly are there almost now (Acer/Dell/etc).

I meant manufacturer who's marketshare and business will evaporate in very short period of time like Motorola's did. We could be witnessing the start for similar epic crash right now.

abill_uk 2011-07-21 11:57
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1055362)
By "next Motorola" I didn't mean having their own OS. They clearly are there almost now (Acer/Dell/etc).

I meant manufacturer who's marketshare and business will evaporate in very short period of time like Motorola's did. We could be witnessing the start for similar epic crash right now.
Your forgetting something here and that is Microsoft, are they going to go bust ?.

Rauha 2011-07-21 11:59
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1055363)
Your forgetting something here and that is Microsoft, are they going to go bust ?.
Of course not, but it has no relevance to post you quoted,.?!/&%!,?.

mikecomputing 2011-07-21 12:00
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1055361)
By the remarks on here it is clear many hate Elop and it is blinding you all.

Even talking as if Tomi T Ahonen is even slightly correct and obviously another Elop hater.
Well I am an european and I hate when US companys is starting to FUD companys and make them go down even more with help of stupid CEO:s.

As long as Elop doesn't show where he (and the rest of the board) really stands they is just working for Microsoft NOT Nokia!

And btw it seems this forum has more Microsoft, Android fanboys than Maemo/Meego fans and you ask us why we disagree with your opinions :-O

abill_uk 2011-07-21 12:02
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1055364)
Of course not, but it has no relevance to post you quoted,.?!/&%!,?.
For Nokia to go down it would also mean M/S going down with them and as we all know that is never going to happen so why all the talk of Nokia's financial when it is now in partnership with M/S.

What post are you refering too?.

Rauha 2011-07-21 12:06
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1055367)
For Nokia to go down it would also mean M/S going down with them and as we all know that is never going to happen so why all the talk of Nokia's financial when it is now in partnership with M/S.
I'm not sure what motor ship you refer with M/S, but if its Microsoft, then I don't understand how Microsoft will stop Nokia business from crashing. Is Microsoft going to buy hundreds of millions of Nokia phones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1055367)
What post are you refering too?.
Nokia's business situation. Not Microsoft's

abill_uk 2011-07-21 12:12
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1055369)
I'm not sure what motor ship you refer with M/S, but if its Microsoft, then I don't understand how Microsoft will stop Nokia business from crashing. Is Microsoft going to buy hundreds of millions of Nokia phones?



Nokia's business situation. Not Microsoft's
Do you understand how a partnership works? and yes M/S is Microsoft.

Rauha 2011-07-21 12:14
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1055373)
Do you understand how a partnership works? and yes M/S is Microsoft.
Yes I understand. You apparently don't.

meego99 2011-07-21 12:15
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
So NOKIA actually makes a profit of 551 million dollars, and you guys are whining?

Rauha 2011-07-21 12:17
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meego99 (Post 1055376)
So NOKIA actually makes a profit of 551 million dollars, and you guys are whining?
Would have been loss without Apple's 430 million euro license payment. Sales down in China by 53%, 20% in Europe.

Only thing to be happy about is that it would have been much more worse without the Apple settlement.

meego99 2011-07-21 12:17
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
No wonder the stock is going up, they made profit with their outdated Symbian phones and are now poised to enter into a great collaboration. I am glad I got NOKIA stock at 5.4

meego99 2011-07-21 12:19
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1055378)
Would have been loss without Apple's 430 million euro license payment. Sales down in China by 53%, 20% in Europe.

Only thing to be happy about is that it would have been much more worse without the Apple settlement.
Profit is a profit, no matter how you make it. They are no Apple for sure, but given the pre-Elop line up of Symbian ******s, this is better than expected. I would give Elop 2 more years before he is judged on his actions. The fruits of his decision will not be evident until 2 years from now.

jo21 2011-07-21 12:22
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
pfff let me name some microsoft partnerships.

SENDO
MOTOROLA
HTC
LG.

some microsoft failures, zune, windows mobile from pocket pc 2000 to windows mobile 6.5

nokia needs a miracle.

abill_uk 2011-07-21 12:23
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meego99 (Post 1055383)
Profit is a profit, no matter how you make it. They are no Apple for sure, but given the pre-Elop line up of Symbian ******s, this is better than expected. I would give Elop 2 more years before he is judged on his actions. The fruits of his decision will not be evident until 2 years from now.
Well at least someone has got a few brain cells not hating Elop on here ;).

gerbick 2011-07-21 12:32
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1055350)
... apple gives back to opensource (Webkit is one). What has Microsoft give the community?
361 changes to Linux 3.0 by Microsoft.

abill_uk 2011-07-21 12:43
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Nokia is far too big an important and probably the most established mobile hardware manufacturer on this planet at the moment so there is not a chance in hell Microsoft will allow them to sink.

Elop is a VERY smart guy or he simply would never have got the post he did !.

kevloral 2011-07-21 12:44
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meego99 (Post 1055383)
Profit is a profit, no matter how you make it. They are no Apple for sure, but given the pre-Elop line up of Symbian ******s, this is better than expected. I would give Elop 2 more years before he is judged on his actions. The fruits of his decision will not be evident until 2 years from now.
That pre-Elop line up of whatever those asterisks mean sold more than all Apple and Samsung handsets combined. And given that that line of whatever those asterisks mean has been abandoned, there will be no Nokia 2 years from now.

bergie 2011-07-21 12:45
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1055307)
Stock up over 3%

Results are lot bad, but lot better than expected.
If I read the articles about the results from Finnish media correctly, the only reason the results were positive was a one-time patent royalty payment of 430m€, probably from Apple.

If after this the profit was 391m€, you can do the math. Last year, without patent payments, profit was 660m€. :rolleyes:

erendorn 2011-07-21 12:51
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergie (Post 1055409)
If I read the articles about the results from Finnish media correctly, the only reason the results were positive was a one-time patent royalty payment of 430m€, probably from Apple.
it's one-time payment and royalties. so it will still pay to some extent in next Q if the payment is indeed from Apple.

jo21 2011-07-21 12:55
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/21/as-...e-killer-blow/

ouch, man apple saved nokia.
this is why u should never feed the patent trolls :P. though i guess a fellow patent troll knows when time to feed.

smartphone grow its comming from used to be dumphone users.

not many converts, so what ever nokia losing now to iOS androd, blackberry and BADA (YES BADA is outselling wp7) , its not coming back ever.

nokia probably in talks with the devil because wp7 have to be bigger than jesusphone.

kevloral 2011-07-21 12:59
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by erendorn (Post 1055414)
it's one-time payment and royalties. so it will still pay to some extent in next Q if the payment is indeed from Apple.
According to one "analyst", those payments could be about €50 million per quarter from now on. Nothing to write home about.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia...tlement-2011-6

jo21 2011-07-21 13:05
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevloral (Post 1055427)
According to one "analyst", those payments could be about €50 million per quarter from now on. Nothing to write home about.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia...tlement-2011-6
i was just reading that..
all analitics tech blogs are making echo of nokia big failure.

and could have been worse.

Rauha 2011-07-21 14:08
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1055405)
Nokia is far too big an important and probably the most established mobile hardware manufacturer on this planet at the moment so there is not a chance in hell Microsoft will allow them to sink.
So is Microsoft going to buy Nokia or just buy the phones that Nokia can't sell?

If first one, will Microsoft then buy all the phones it makes in order to stop sales of Nokia branded phones from sinking?


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