Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 487827)

Yes, you actually are wrong. But as I told your tag-team partner, I'm done trying to shine the light. Take comfort in your beliefs, and have a nice day.

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 487824)

You edited your post after I quoted. Nice. ;)

Odd... I see the defensiveness coming from your direction. I'm being very calm and patient with a couple of guys ranting their heads off with some very disingenuous points.

But that's enough for today. You both continue to grossly misunderstand almost every word I type. Continuing with that would be foolish. So if you're looking for a semantical win, you've got it. Enjoy!

Originally Posted by chrisp7 (Post 487842)

Not sure what you mean, if I edited, I edited within 30 secs Id guess, hence the post not acknowledging the edit.

err yeah I am a little heated because Im frustrated that some people cant seem to take any for of criticism about the N900. You post below, effectively discounting a lot of the criticism of the N900 as 'noise' seems rather closed minded to me. I understand there are a lot of issues and conflicting reasons for such problems however I find a lot of problems seem to be batted away with the response, but mine is fine (Im referring to many people who have posted in this thread - your comment was obviously made in jest..I hope;))

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 487883)

Ok, that approach got me to change my mind on further replies.

If I sold 100 devices, and 5 people complained, that means 95 didn't. Clear non-complaining majority. What's hard to get from that is the detail-- how many in that majority complained elsewhere? How many are easier to please? How many lucked into a good lot?

Originally Posted by MontyBravo (Post 487913)

Your a data analyst and your honestly state this as a factual basis ? shocking!

Let me explain my comments.

Non reports do not dictate the amount of product errors. Yes complaints will become more forthcoming in fault based threads. There is a user barrier to starting a post being negative in a community based on the device. One someone has started with faults others will feel more at home in discussing this.

Anyone that reads the forum will note that any negative comments are bashed (as well as being sensibly discussed by forum members).

You are of course correct that the user experience will be dictated by expectations (well actually im putting that out there to be honest lol),

BUT!

simply put again , just to make it clear,

this is not the only reporting channel and the large majority of owners will not be reporting in this forum.

Its also the case that only a small amount of people which actually have faults will bother to report them on here.

that means that a small number of people reporting faults have a greater statistical importance and weight.

So to summarise your point I have quoted is not correct. I am sure since you are a data analyst you understand "weighted" data and the impact this has. This is what I am referring to. Hopefully i am using the correct terminology? I would imagine the meaning is clear.

And I do agree the data means a lot more with tight data control, but this does not invalidate user response on this forum.


I do understand you get lots of trolls on here. I am actually not one of them , please feel free to explain how my logic is incorrect. Not in one reply to me have you attempted to do this. And I dont need you to preach but thanks for the thought ;)

cheers,

MB

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 487883)

Ok, that approach got me to change my mind on further replies.

I already explained this in the thread once but I'll try again...

First, it's a mistake to try to glean too much from a talk forum anyway... especially in this context. Only people with problems report problems! And they tend to congregate in threads where problems are reported (usually started by a problem reporter). This creates the illusion that the majority has problems. But that's an error of perception, and it defies reason.

If I sold 100 devices, and 5 people complained, that means 95 didn't. Clear non-complaining majority. What's hard to get from that is the detail-- how many in that majority complained elsewhere? How many are easier to please? How many lucked into a good lot?

Trying to apply significance to forum complaints tends to be foolhardy. No serious QA guy or statistician will give a thread full of rants much weight. There need to be the proper controls, the proper contexts-- including production details, product usage, user expectations, etc. It's not as simple as "5 guys report a problem".

That said-- significance CAN be found in low numbers where catastrophic failure is involved... like the usb breakage I reported. And sure enough, more reports showed up quickly.

But for vague, non-fatal complaints like "slowness", etc, those are rarely indicative of a universal problem UNLESS there's a clear majority reporting it. Again, that was the case with internet video on previous devices-- and the complaints were qualified by the revelation that hardware shortcomings were involved.

I'm not dismissing your concerns at all. I've had issues with products and it's not fun. All I've been trying to do is add perspective here, and it's been unfairly misconstrued. As one of your council reps I love to help you guys, even the noisemakers-- but if you're gonna abuse that and give me unwarranted grief, where's my motivation?

Try assuming the best about people upfront instead of the worst. That's my preaching for today. ;)



So is making unfair assertions about someone's intent.

PS Calling my argument disingenuous is rather insulting.

Originally Posted by chrisp7 (Post 488410)

Im not sure why we are getting to a statistical issue, my point that I have made an over and over is that the software just isnt good enough at present imo - which opinion concurs with the majority (going by reviews, blogs, this forum etc).