Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Desktop monitors have not stagnated, it's just you who is not up to date. And if it were true, there's no contentment to talk about. You'd just use whatever you got because there's nothing better. There's no contentment involved.

Yes it means something. The point is that if you take desktop monitors and think about how nobody complains about the resolution being grainy (because it's not), you realize that a mobile device, with its superior DPI, is pretty awesome.

Interesting, because I don't recall making any calculations in my post..
Anyway, while technically you are correct to say that 800x480/4" is not an improvement, I was only pointing out that people shouldn't complain so much about the display.

Now I don't know about you, but I can't see the individual pixels on my N900 no matter how close I am. Come on folks, it's not THAT bad!

If I were you I'd be more worried if there were missing key HW features, such as the physical keyboard.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

what are you confused about.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

No. As I said, some of us have been agitating for better screens for a long time, and dissing the iPhone/iPhone3/iPhone3GS for its low resolution. If you've been fine with low resolution, that's great; DPI didn't matter to you, and there's no reason it should start mattering now. For those of us who have been aware of and concerned with DPI for years, it did matter, and still does.

The only thing "all of a sudden" about it is that you recently became aware that there are other people concerned about it. Maybe this was because of press coverage of the iPhone 4, but in any case, try not to confuse your

OK, I went to portrait mode, and zoomed so the page width was equal to the 480px screen width. Guess what? The letters are down in the 6px high range. If antialiasing were disabled at this size, they would be legible, but ugly; since they are anti-aliased, they're not ugly, but hard to read. That's "why you would honestly need a higher dpi when you look at that text" -- so you can have proper looking fonts and proper legibility at once.

For text, yes, it's arguably stupid to read at that size -- because text doesn't rely on "big-picture" view; splitting it over twice as many pages doesn't cost much. (Unless, of course, that text is in a badly designed website or a PDF, and you have to zoom out that far to make it through a line with out horizontal scrolling...) Now try technical diagrams -- datasheets and the like. There's a legitimate case for cramming these on the screen instead of scrolling.

Besides, you blame the difficulty in reading this on small physical size, assuming the pixel density to be sufficient, and then using that to claim we don't need more density. That's what we call begging the question, and it's a fallacy. To have an argument, you need to introduce some data to support your assumption that the text would not be more legible at twice the PPI.

Here's my evidence: see the screenshot...
Look at it on your desktop, where it will be large enough to read, and you can't claim the physical size is the problem (or open it in an image editor and scale it up to suit). Is it then easy to read? No, it's just as illegible at 10mm as it was at <1mm -- because the problem is pixelation, not size. If we had a 3.5" 1600x960 screen, it would be much more readable...
http://i32.tinypic.com/2hehl3a.png

Well over ten years ago, I was using a fairly ordinary CRT with 0.25mm dot pitch (which is measured at an angle, IIRC it was 0.21mm horizontal); now most desktop LCDs are 95-100ppi, or 0.25-0.27mm pitch horizontal. You're right; they've not stagnated, they've actually gone backwards. :rolleyes: But go on, I'm not up to date? Do explain...

You're right -- without spending thousands of dollars on one of the handful of T221s out there, I'm stuck with the low density, and am not content. I guess we agree on this, so I'm not sure why we're arguing this point...

But if we're not content, just stuck, then why in the world would "oh, it's better than that piece of trash you're stuck with on your desktop" mean it's good enough? Yes, it's better by a factor of 2-3, but it's also used at 1/2-1/3 the distance, more or less -- so if I'm not content with my desktop, I'll not be content with it, either...

But people do complain -- why do you think the T221 is so famous on the internet, and commands such a price when you can find one? It's not mere scarcity, a relic to put on the shelf and say "I have a rare monitor!" -- the people who can afford them buy them to use, because cheap monitors are grainy, and they do want higher resolution.



Yes, you made an assertion (that there's a maximum useful angular density), with an implication of relevance (which would mean that the iPhone 4, the N900, and/or the proposed 4" screen would be at or about that angular density at reasonable distances), with absolutely no evidence to support it.

I guess that's better than making and posting wrong calculations, but I can only assume you came to that conclusion from someone's calculations. So I addressed what seemed to me the most likely source -- of course, if you'd provided your own source, I wouldn't have had to guess.


Really? So when you open the "Clock & phase" page at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/, you see a homogeneous grey field, no matter how close you are? If so, then you should probably consider reading glasses...

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

I don't know what everyone's making a big deal about the resolution for, 800X480 is perfectly fine with me, I'd still be very glad if the meego phone has all the other specs that was stated like the yummy dual core

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Um...so what was the news anyway? I stopped browsing on page 4 of this thread.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Regardless, for the purpose of this thread the screens of the previous Maemo devices would serve better as reference points. How do you find their ~4-inch, 800x480 screens?

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

there is no fallacy whatsoever. I zoomed in to the image you posted it is still readable though not pretty but you completely missed the point. lets say we go to 600ppi there will be a uncomfortably small text size where even 600ppi suffers the same fate correct? so since you have already agree that a text size of <1 mm is daft what use is an even smaller achievable text size. you say diagrams, but surely they can scale too and they do. so at the end of the day it's about the pixel size being below a threshold and as I clearly stated "IMO" that threshold has already been passed to be of any practical use. what I would rather have is larger size and higher resolution not just dpi, it can remain the same or even reduce a little for all I care.

I know the internet loves car analogies so I'll give one, it's like complaining about the top speed of a good car, say a ferrari because there is a veyron yet you have a top speed limit of 70mph anyway. completely irrational IMO. The chase for higher ppi is exactly that, a chase for a higher number with no practical purpose. increase screen size and resolution, fine, but to aim for higher ppi to me seems daft.

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

Lets think about the phones/MID's I have owned at 800x480px over the past two years:

Xperia X1, HD, HD2, Touch Diamond 2, Touch Pro2, n900, TG01, n800, n810, Archos 5 Android. They range from 3"-5".

All in search of the perfect e-reading and surfing experience so I have a reasonably good idea of what I can be achieved at this resolution and when it becomes limiting.

I would prefer a 4" 960*640 screen over a 5" 800*480 any day, higher PPI REDUCE your need for larger screen sizes while increasing clarity. And given that we are in the mobile arena and need to use the device to make calls, the emphasis on PPI becomes even more apparent.

The 4.3" HD2 has the sweetest size form factor in my experience sans keyboard (but I would want one e.g slim n810 one and replace its D-pad with a trackpad). It could probably house a 4.5" screen by a pure glass face and that would be about my limit of comfort for a handset. 120.7 * 67 mm

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

funny you should mention that because that's exactly my search too I got a PRS-700 for reading now my samsung q1 was perfect for surfing but battery life was poor so now I have a n900 too for that. That is exactly what I'm trying to say ppi reduces the need for a larger screen but above a threshold what use is it if the text size is now too small to read?

Re: Leak of Nokia's First Meego Handset Just About to be Released
 

I have several pocketable UMPC's as well but as you said the battery life is poor at 5 hrs max and they are rather heavy. And apart from one item I own they could never make it as handsets.