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-   -   "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63707)

lma 2010-10-13 11:05

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 839187)
FWIW MeeGo uses something very similar in layout to what you propose so looks a lot less like a traditional linux (it puts the apps into their respective /opt/namespace/... so nobody touches /usr/bin et al)

You say that as if it was a good thing. In effect we're going back to 2005 (the /var/lib/install situation) only worse (PATH bloat, no external interpreters, libs etc allowed) and it still doesn't do what the OP wants. Technically it's a bit more FHS-compliant, so I guess it's alright then.

TiagoTiago 2010-10-13 21:45

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by egoshin (Post 839713)
...
(3) Your real problem - root FS space and bad "optification" can be solved in many different ways. See for exam - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59374
Or there is some development for "Join" file systems.

i'll try to remember that one for the next time i need to reflash my N900, thanx

attila77 2010-10-13 22:12

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lma (Post 839985)
You say that as if it was a good thing. In effect we're going back to 2005 (the /var/lib/install situation) only worse (PATH bloat, no external interpreters, libs etc allowed) and it still doesn't do what the OP wants. Technically it's a bit more FHS-compliant, so I guess it's alright then.

The fact that package separation is being thought about *is* a good thing. Whether the way they are doing it is the *best* way of going about it, is a different story entirely (on a side note, the external interpreters/libs/etc issue has nothing to do with the dir/file layout of the packages).

lma 2010-10-16 08:23

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 840405)
The fact that package separation is being thought about *is* a good thing.

I don't see why. At the end of the day (partitioning SNAFUs aside) nobody cares if the angry birds binary lives in /usr/bin, somewhere under /opt or anywhere else, since all user interaction with it is just launching it and that's done via its .desktop file. On the other hand I really wouldn't like having, say, an /opt/openssh/usr/bin/ssh that looks for its known_hosts file in ~/.config/ssh/, an
/opt/rsync/usr/bin/rsync that calls that and both present in my $PATH and being search every time I type a command. My mileage obviously varies but I like to think of my boxen as integrated systems rather than receptacles for independent self-contained apps.

Quote:

(on a side note, the external interpreters/libs/etc issue has nothing to do with the dir/file layout of the packages).
Strictly speaking perhaps not, but if every external lib has to go to its own special directory under /opt then packaging anything that uses those is going to be a pain in the neck and the library search path is going to be long and slow to traverse. I guess it's much easier to sweep these problems under the carpet by making a policy that forbids external dependencies.

javispedro 2010-10-16 14:38

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lma (Post 842412)
On the other hand I really wouldn't like having, say, an /opt/openssh/usr/bin/ssh that looks for its known_hosts file in ~/.config/ssh/, an
/opt/rsync/usr/bin/rsync that calls that and both present in my $PATH and being search every time I type a command.

Not to mention the extra work packagers would have to handle for each and every package.

Specially considering that the very reason this thread exists is because some packager couldn't use the theoretically _fully automated_ optification tool. Add in more weirdness (changing sysconfdir?) and the number of packages that do not bother at all will increase exponentially.

dchky 2010-10-17 01:10

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TiagoTiago (Post 838974)
Why we aren't expected to have the freedom of installing things just about anywhere we want?

Which part of dpkg --help are you having trouble with sir? (same for apt-get / aptitude)

You can even install man-db-n900 and man-db-pages so you can do man dpkg for even more information.

Read. Understand. The freedom you desire already exists. This doesn't mean it's always a good idea - just like rm -rf / as root is not a good idea - nothing stops you from doing it though - and this is a good thing! Seriously. I wouldn't want it any other way.


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