Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

All my friends have an Iphone, it has a lot of games, they can install a proper navigation app like sygic, tomtom, IGO!!...etc.I can't do anything of this on my N900:(...

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

What he said. We have had so little information about Maemo 6 so far that we can't want it (or not) rationally. If the reason for wanting it is that the version is one higher, I've got some nice amps that go to 11 to sell you :-)

BTDTGTTS

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I put the question to you again: are you implying that Maemo 6 would be available for the N900?

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

i understand that it is a new phone but the price the customers pay is really high as well..so we should have more things on it. Before, i had a n95 8gb and i was really impressed about it that's why i've got a new nokia phone!

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

You have full flash in a browser.. that does a lot of what probably 90ish percent of the "iphone" apps provide. You hit some very specific points, IE: map/navigation, that are known weaknesses with the N900 and should have been known before spending that kind of money.

There is a good amount of useful apps in the repos... ask your iPhone buddies to play Quake on your TV, or listen to pandora through your car without an adapter or cables.

Go to pretty much any flash-based website.. or stream a local radio station through the browser.

There are several threads around here about how to "show up" iphone users if that's your thing. I personally don't see much point in it: You either like the device and what it offers you (control, flexibility) or you don't. If you wanted an iPhone that's probably what you should have went for.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I am pretty sure that if Quim could answer, he would have answered already.

Perhaps, depending on technical-timing-financial factors, they don't know yet.

There are many possibilities... Maybe they can do it, but they would need to hire 10 more devs and need the approval of a higher up to do it. Maybe they can do it, but in order to do it, Maemo 6 wouldn't release on time and need to work on the re-scheduling. Maybe it can't be done, but they are working on some kind of trade-in which isn't ready yet to be announced.

So many things that can happen! And one thing will happen for sure: people will hold Quim and Nokia accountable for what they say, will expect their word to be fulfilled, and there will be hell if it doesn't (remember the N900 launch delay?).

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

The device is simply not for you. Return it and get yourself an Iphone.

I bought the device for what it is (allow me to refresh your memory). And what it is, serves my needs 100%. M6, shiny apps and games are just bonuses to me.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Ah, it sounds like maybe you've got that problem that loomed for YEARS in the 'Linux vs Windows' wars on the desktop. ie: I went to the store to buy a game but it won't run in Linux! (replace Linux with Macintosh or Amiga or Atari, etc.)

It's just a matter of finding this platform's rockstar killer must-have apps.

I don't have an N900, but I do have an N800 and I have no shortage of available software from games to multimedia to office programs and console (terminal) tools to do real work. Last I checked, Sygic is VERY close to being released on the N900. I think THAT will come as a GREAT comfort to you, as I understand the OviMap navigation suuuuuuuuucks. Just a short wait, I'm hoping.

In the meantime, take a wander over to the Maemo downloads site ( http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ ) to see some of the recommended apps, if you haven't already been there. Be sure to also scour the forums for N900 app-related topics.

I hope this helps.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Precisely, which is why I don't push him.. and also why I specifically said I was sure he had insider knowledge. But then he, nor anyone, can really blame us for operating on the information, albeit maybe little (which is not our fault), that we have to work from.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I do not get it, this is supposed to be a geek phone that allows you to run some linux applications, is it not?
IF you feel the need to impress iPhone friends then open a shh terminal connection or something and install a web server or hack a bank while everybody thinks you are SMS chatting. If they are not geek enough to get it, you have the wrong friends :D


These days people are so spoiled good things hardly become a classic before everyone realises the next best thing wasn ' t worth all that waiting.


When I bought this phone I was expecting to get a better surfing experience than on E71 and it delivers. I am still keeping E71 it for navigation.
N900 is well worth the 200 Euro price difference
Contact integration, large memory, nice music player, quick menu navigation, native skype.

The only thing needed to enhance the surfing experience is the ghostery and noscript plug ins for Firefox to stop google watching the every move.

Ah yes, there is no excuse for having not the slightest web cam integration in the Skype program, Skype being such a closed program.

That said, I recon it is easy to start whining so I quit here and wish everybody a lot of enjoyment of their little toys.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

You actually got the excuse right on that precise sentence (i.e.: Skype being closed).

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Then why act coy instead of simply stating as much? I'm just asking whether he's implying it. He could explain the factors (if he's allowed) or simply state that he's not allowed.

Ultimately, the posture of recommending that the community should backport the operating system features helped make it sound like the N900 is already an orphaned system. I hoped to see something to dispel that notion.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I could've changed that to almost any OS or software. It's just the way things are done. Even in open (or in this case, I suppose you could say semi-open) development, as qgil plainly explained, sometimes desired changes go too deep and are too difficult to implement without just saying 'Screw it, we'll hafta go for it in the next version.' All - hey, not even most - bugs and feature requests are ever fixed or added in existing versions of software, usually just what has to be done.

There's always a next version in the works, so what. Nokia may have made a mistake in being a little too forthcoming about their plans instead of keeping them secret until just before release. Many people here evidently can't handle the truth. Now there's rampant speculation and angry expectations. If the was no Maemo 6 in progress, that's when I'd be worried, not because there is. That's supposed to be good news.

But as I said before, I do agree it would be good business and very good public relations to support Maemo 6 on the N900 if at all possible. I'm guessing it will be possible, but differences between 5-6 would be significant enough it would require a reflash/reconfigure, not just a simple seamless OTA update. If so, that represents a real customer support problem for Nokia. IOW, the upgrade may be possible, but more complicated than the average Joe user can deal with and so cannot be implemented to the general public. In such a case, maybe Nokia could release a download for manual upgradng? Let's hope for the best. Have some patience.

Relax and enjoy your N900s. Upgraded or not, either way I'm a happy camper.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

That's not quite right.

Let's replace my comments with Ubuntu Intrepid and Ubuntu Karmic koala.

Sure, intrepid gets orphaned - but I can then use Karmic. Mostly, this same can be said for windows.. but with windows you pay for an upgrade. However, windows offers discounted upgrade versions of the OS for previous customers.

So for your argument to be taken seriously... Nokia would need to offer an upgrade device for cheaper to those that already have an N900... or, of course, bring M6 to the N900 and give us the option of loading it.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Humbug! At issue is whether a newly released piece of expensive hardware will remain supported by its vendor's distribution so soon after its release, versus being a beta-test already-orphaned device that few people should have purchased... In the wait for a release candidate device... In wait for the final REAL product made for the ordinary consumers.

That's PRECISELY my point as well! THANK YOU! A faithful-brand customer discount like car dealers often do. Even the Apple folks have their goofy little stickers, clubs and discounts or SOMETHING to make them feel like a proud brand owner. I can't help feeling like Nokia doesn't give a damn that you stuck with their brand.

The comparison is also apt in that you can almost always install the new OS onto whatever computer you've already been using, too.

Excellent, but you're not really representing the typical consumer... which is whom Nokia should be more concerned about. As others keep pointing out, there IS a lot of competition out there. I, for one, don't enjoy the N900 and so didn't waste my money. I clearly hope that the next device is better suited to me, but even if it is, I have reservations about the support issues. I want to know that the brand I purchased will not leave me feeling orphaned and raped when I have a problem.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Maybe you are right but what will happen if there will be released another phone with some more things the n900 doesn't have...and you won't get any updates, games, proper apps...etc. AND all the developers will forget that exists. As about sygic nav is not released because of nokia. Does anyoane have a clue why?

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

May I remind you all the old N95 got an update recently ? :D
If the N900 will be popular enough, which it seems to be, looking at the huge shortage. I guess we'll be getting support for at least 1.5 years...:) And if not. Most people buy a new phone after 1-2 years when their contract ends anyway :p

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Oh so you already have inside information that Nokia has (in the past few days) dropped support for the N900 entirely? Or are you just trolling because you don't like the fact that the N900 has a cellular modem?

The moment the G1 (or any Android device for sale now) is dropped from sale you will see support dry up instantly. Even if you have a bug in a library that can't be upgraded without upgrading some driver, you will not get assistance.

That said, between how open Maemo is and with Mer moving forward, if a usable install for the N900 is ready before the next device is out I think a lot of complaints will be moot, and Nokia will show themselves willing to at least give the community enough support to keep their devices alive as long as possible.

Also, I don't think the days of a WiFi only internet tablet are coming back. WiFi is extremely restricting and had the N900 not come with GSM I'd probably be using an Android device now, disappointed in how limited the OS is and still thinking "if only..."

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Eh? They've not provided updates to many of the older handsets such as the G1. There are technical limitations like free space on the root filesystem. Many apps should still be portable across the old and newer releases of Android, but it's almost exactly the same issue as M5 to M6.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Portable?... eh.. The Google Market works in older and newer androids alike due to the davlik VM environment...

There's a big different between native C++ apps and interpreted apps. If the M6 device is near identical on a chip-level to the N900, then the same binaries may work. Otherwise a re-compile, and a maintainer, for every app will be needed; as some developers will not want to maintain several binaries or compiles.

And the G1 isn't getting updated to 2.1+ which was discussed, but the MyTouch, the second device release mid-last year, is. HTC announced that recently. That's 8-10 months.. word around these forums (however inaccurate or accurate is unknown) is the m6 will be second half 2010.. so while the mytouch gets a new upgrade to the new OS - the N900 gets... bandaids.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

I think it'd be fine, so long as the OS is still available on both devices. Simply having different or more features on a newer device doesn't make a current device orphaned so long as the software is available for both and recognizes that there CAN be different hardware (as desktop apps do, for instance).

I thought Sygic was just awaiting approval from Nokia. Did you find out one way or the other?

hehe.. that's ADORABLE, how you called someone a troll as you troll on through yourself. But no, I was asking whether that was the case.

In the meantime, they DID get pretty good jumps in upgrades. I think you're confusing a device that was released a year and a half ago, with a device that was released less than 3 months ago.

Like actual customer support, parts and styluses? Your definition of support is myopic.

Maybe ... you're ... right!

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

No; it works on multiple devices because Android has a stable API along versions. Which can either mean "good API design abilities" (usual commercial PoV) or "very slow progress" (Linus' PoV).

(It doesn't help that we build binaries for armv7, but "flipping the switch" and starting building armv4 binaries which would even work on the 770 is way more trivial than creating a VM, and the end result might be even faster).

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Ok, my analogy is imperfect. Guilty as charged. Vista is not a N900. But it still gets the general idea across. Which is...most bugfixes and new features are added in new releases, not existing ones, be it hardware or software. Sometimes new software demands new hardware. Sometimes new hardware demands new software. The original iPhone never got retrofitted for 3G. iPhone owners cussed and wanted discounts on iPhone 3Gs. Windows 2000 never got IE7 and tabbed browsing. Users were pissed. The G1 won't ever get Android 2x. People who have a 2 month old G1 are ticked. Etc., etc. Usually, to get new stuff ya gotta buy new stuff. Whatever. You get the idea. Cutting-edge tech is a fast-moving thing. Hang on or get off the bus.

I'm quite sure that whether I ever get Maemo 6 or not, my N900 will serve me well for a long time. And that Nokia will support it with at least basic, necessary bugfixes for, at the minimum, as long as it remains on the market.

Again, I'm very happy with mine. Wouldn't trade it for anything else out there. If you're concerned, well, DON'T BUY ONE! If you're not, maybe get one, after doing your homework. If you already have one, relax and enjoy the most powerful pocket computer on the planet. But don't whine endlessly about events yet to be determined, especially if you haven't made the investment.

I'm outta this thread...it's gotten as ridiculous as Android forum stuff..."...is the G1 gonna get Cupcake? It better or I'm goin' WinMO or iPhone!" Arrrrgggghhhh!!!! I'm gonna go hotrod a carpet cleaner or something...

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

just by the means how this thread explodes, how can the N900 die with maemo 5? there will be tons of N900 users out there when maemoe 6 arrives on a new phone. only a few will be willing to spend another 500€ for a new phone after just bought the N900 6 month ago.

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

This thread should die. It's like having a conversation with a macfanboy and showing the n900 to them yet they will argue to no end about the *cough* 4G iphone *cough*. Some people need to use it NOW... like in NOW...

I love my n900, 3 weeks into it after being on iphone from '07. dont miss it. dont need gps/nav, I live on an island. lol.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Yes, you are right that maemo.org should be focus on other subjects rather than complains. The problem is that customer care channels are failing to give clients the proper attention....

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

I'm sure they'll sell Maemo 6 to you all for $99.99.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Well I'm not a lawyer, but don't they have some kind of obligation to do so?

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Oh boy Oh boy, can't wait!! ^_^

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

I'm very sorry to inform you that there are currently no laws governing customer care telling you whether your handset can or cannot be upgraded to the latest OS that is to be released at some point between 6 and 12 months from now..

I'm hoping for Maemo 6 on N900 as much as the next guy, but let's be reasonable?

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Unfortunately I don't think it would be a legal obligation to have a GOOD customer care, like confirming if N900 will have Maemo6. Even it may not be an obligation still is a decisive aspect for retaining customers, and competitors are probably doing a better work... I guess you wouldn't even see lots of mention about N900 on Apple fanboys or Android forums...

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Ok i can't believe i read this whole thread. I do believe nokia will release m6 for the n900. Here is why i think they will and again i might be wrong. It seems to me they are fixing most if not all the bugs we reported in m5 to m6. They are probably will release a new update with these fixes for m5 that will probably down the road get us ready for m6. It doesn't make sense that nokia will screw us up like this. They should remember that we the customers have more power than they do. We decide if they stay in business or not. Can you imagine if we all show up in the next meeting when they are about to announce or release the next N9x0 and complain and ***** right in the middle of the announcement how the current N900 customers have being ignored or ripped of. If we make use of the internet and start posting all over the place how the new n9x0 new customers might be treated that might not be so good for nokia's revenue down the road. All it takes is for us all to start a movement and believe me they will listen and figure something out :). Just hoping nokia doesn't make us do something THEY will regret.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

ITT and now talk.maemo.org is a support organization IMO. That is why people come here. Whether wanted or not, whether official or not. We are providing customer support 24x7.

Customer care, maybe that's different than customer support? However I hope we can continue to have open conversations about our complaints. This is how they get resolved.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

personally I do not care if we get maemo 6, it's just a name. what I'm worried about is maemo 5 not improving simply because they want to add a given feature to 6. I understand hardware limitations so I'm not asking for the impossible but if a feature is possible and isn't added or in some cases not fixed because they would rather forget about 5 and do it for 6. Then I won't be too happy.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Yes, but it is important that those coming here for support realize that maemo is not Nokia. It's an easy mistake to make, and leads to extra angst and misplaced (IMO) vitriol.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

I still want to see our Distmaster guide the final bugfix version of Diablo out the door as a community SSU. That acomplishment would put a lot of these angsty threads to rest; people would see that Nokia does help our community support old devices. The next step would be getting Mer into a usable state. Really, it doesn't need to be beautiful or feature packed, but it needs to the basic stuff.

As for all the council quitting bluster -- Whatever. You got a Big Agenda you want to push? Run for council yourself.

I myself am more interested in backporting features to Maemo 5, cherry picking the interesting stuff and adding it to what I've got...

I don't want an iPhone clone, I want a handheld Linux distro. And "multi-touch capacitive screen" screams "iPhone" to me. Big fat greasy fingers sliding sloppily around a touch screen may appeal to a lot of people. Not to me. I love a high resolution screen and a precision stylus. The more you go away from the desktop paradigm of keyboard and (single, precise) pointer, the fewer productivity apps will work with any ease on the device... :(

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

i like too much my n900 thats enough for me!
use one for such a time and you gonna realize what i'm talking about.
and don't be nervous whit nokia, they now how to do.

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

i dont care about maemo6.. as long as my m5 do the front cam..gps voice navigation n potrait mode... if nokia didnt fix it.. they gonna loose the big fan.. i m not going for another nokia device nor recommend to anyone .. so far i recommended n97 to my closee friend.. he was angry bec there is no skype which being promised.. now he is enjoying it bec of free ovi maps.. but who knows nokia has all sort of suprise to keep it fans.. nokia just have to sure that its connection wth big fans are still in touch.. word of mouth is the strongest marketing tool n nokia has to realize not to disspoint its core customer

Re: Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Couldn't agree more. That is partly why I am very much interested in the future of N900, besides the general interest in the Maemo platform from a user/developer perspective - if the rummors are true, N900 might very well be my only Maemo device for a long time. Maybe even the one and only if Nokia decides to go with the flow. I won't buy a capacitive screen device (with multi-touch I am ok, there are precise resistive solutions out there), or a device without a hardware keyboard, no matter of the rest of the hardware. Those two are the clear deal breakers for me. I won't trade precision, haptic feedback and speed for some hipsterish gimmicky features. I'm buying a device that I want to use, not show-off.

And that is a prime reason why I'd like to see full M6 running on the N900 - if I am to develop for the Maemo platform, I don't want to limit myself to just M5, and I refuse to buy an iPhone clone, as you've put it, under any circumstance, so I'd have to rely on the SDK to testbench my apps which is nowhere near to testing om the device...

Re: Will N900 be ignored by Nokia?
 

Lets all write an official letter to Bill Gates or anyone who's extremely rich to donate to us new Nokia phones every 6 months.. It would be like spending pennies for them.. :D