Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Current total market cap is about 8,7 billion euros.

-Cash reserves around 4,7 billion (but going down fast)
-Patent portfolio couple billions or so
-50% of Nokia-Siemens Networks worth few billions.

So basicly the parent Nokia's core business is valued to have no value at all. Propably not that crazy evaluation...

Even funnier if you think that just few years ago Nokia paid almost its current value for Navteq, or that Microsoft paid 8 billions for Skype or that Google paid 12 billions for Motorola. My guess is that it depends how seriously Redmond really wants to be in mobile and how many billions they want to waste on trying to beat Google and Apple in mobile tech. Nokia going bankrupt would really be the end of Windows Phone. No one else is taking it seriously. Personally I think its already a lost battle. Google/Android is the Windows of mobile world for the masses and Apple already is the Apple/Mac of mobile for hipsters and high end. No room for anyone else.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

So no more "future disruptions" then.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

By nature that leg of the strategy is more secretive. Nokia keeps filing patents every month and the product portfolio include innovations, but there is little else to comment here.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I just clicked/followed the link YOU provided, Qgil. (Go back to the original post, if you want.)

This really isn't answering my question about how it's been working out so far. It's just a lot of forward-looking aspirations--not the metrics and results of the partnership. So I'm left asking the same questions after reading that page (which, contains information we've already been aware of), "It's June of 2012, now. So uh.... how's that partnership working out so far? Have you hit that 'next billion' yet? How much farther into the 'future' do we have to wait for the 'disruptions?" If you're not qualified to answer them--then at least don't be the one trying to reply without answers--you'd at least be more honest to admit you don't know or that you can't. Would be awesome if someone that COULD, did. That's only fair, right?

Actually, that's kind of interesting. Lately, it doesn't feel to me like there's a lot of useful things going on. (Useful being a pretty opinionated, subjective word, though.) What sort of stuff are you focusing on lately on maemo.org? Are they Maemo related or are you following the Nokia strategy instead somehow?

Soooooooooo... patent trolling? Why innovate? Litigate! Right?

I'd like to know what's meant by 'future' (This year? next year? How about back when we first heard that phrase uttered at Nokia? Feels like it was years ago already.)

How about 'disruptions?' Is this technical, innovative, market-capturing and consumer-loving disruptions... or is this now being interpreted as patent trolling and stalling innovation with litigation the way Microsoft's been known to operate? I interpret Qgil's latest replies to not instill confidence in a positive "disruption." Would be nice to have someone qualified to speak on Nokia's behalf to explain things unambiguously or at least in a way that doesn't instill dread in the increasing numbers of consumers who're clearly disenchanted with Nokia and buying everyone else's products (RIM and Palm being the exceptions--not the kind of crowd you want to be grouped with lately).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I think nokia management should rewrite the strategy now. It was just a fake strategy during the transition from a software/hardware vendor to a design house for Microsoft 's software.

The market don't believe in it an rightly so. Nokia have canceled almost everything close to disruptive.

ELOP's ecosystem is not a ecosystem since windows 7.5 devices can't be upgraded to windows 8.

So what nokia has managed with this new strategy is nothing. Microsoft provide an OS. Nokia cutting its own OSes, employees, projects,and most importantly its owners, the shareholders.

Idont think nokia is in a position to present a strategy. It would be much more relevant if microsoft presented the nokia strategy instead of of Nokia 2012 itself.

I'm not saying it's the wrong way for nokia, they don't have that much options in the current state. But even so, the information and strategy must be aligned with reality and updated accordingly.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I agree with everything you said except that they don't have many options. There is a WORLD of options they could choose from, even now. They chose the worst of available options, at the worst time, with the worst people, moving to the worst, cheapest locations while choking Nokia's founding homeland and population, with the worst devices (yeah, I said it.. the hardware is getting cheaper, more tacky looking, and more fragile as time has passed), all for what appear to be the worst reasons and results.

Options, they had plenty. I'll say it again: Nokia should have learned from its competitors and from business history about how to provide better products, better support, better physical presence, better customer service and finally, most importantly, listen to the customers to sell them what they are demanding they want to buy. I've seen Nokia's reputation of contempt for customers only getting worse over time.

These blathering, meaningless phrases like 'future disruptions' are so open and fundamentally meaningless that they could mean anything in any context that they might hope to use it in to take credit. "Future disruptions" could also describe the negative effect Nokia is having on their investors and the Finnish economy. There's no clear strategy behind such business double-speak. In my opinion, Elop has a very long way to go to prove that he's anything more than an overly-paid Microsoft mole-man with very few successes, no compelling vision nor any useful talents.

Prove me wrong, Elop! DO IT! DO IT, YOU WIMP!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I found this. support it?
http://www.change.org/petitions/noki...stephen-elop:D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You always putting lots of questions out there, but you never have any answers. Whats done is done and can't be undone. Even if we dont agree with Nokia's decision to cancel all the good stuff and jumping on the microsoft boat with lots of holes in, we can't ignore the fact that we are in the boat. How do you suggest we do to keep the boat above sea level?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Don't really want to fuel any further wp-bashing discussion, but yesterday my ecuadorian friend told me that after 3 yrs with android he is actually looking for WP phone, but he hates Nokia. Must be 0.0001% but still something (or confirmation bias, but really do not remember people being excited by android in chit-chat anytime recently). I showed him Fremantle and as he has some linux exp he was quite impressed (compiling a game while we chatted was the killer), probably one WP device less out there, not sure, but however you guys feel WP IS attractive to some. It's like discussing high-heels sometimes here, some (poor unruly bastards) like the long outstanding wood-pecker(or cowboyish) like ending, normal people do not - lets fight to the death about it. WP8 is coming soon, lets not fight over aesthetic preferences. Google is not going to save us

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Waiting for any company to save us is sheer folly. Case in point, Nokia.