Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

920 is slightly cheaper than Iphone and also Galaxyies. Not sure if this gives an advantage, but I'm sure they will at least one or two devices more thx to the lower price tag.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Or lose one or two, thanks to the suspiciously low price and recent rapid price drops so soon after release.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I love rapid price drops.

You won't see the same fast price drop for 920. Will be simular to galaxies. You can't compare with iPones since the releasing so few devices.

The price is not rediculas low, just slighly cheaper than top galaxies.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Graphs. Day, Week.

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...ff882c8e2b.png

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...be26dbd09c.png

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

So every athlete, every single ball player is insane? Maybe :) The point here is they are NOT doing the SAME thing over again. WP8 IS totally different than WP7x. All you trolls have pointed to that particular little thing over and over and over and over again and again regarding the incompatibility of WP8 and WP7. Trolls have a very short memory :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

How will the difference between WP7 and WP8 benefit the user?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Someone trained in Propaganda Techniques would answer with something like this:

"It is going to revolutionize the way people work. People will finally be able to be efficient and have fun at the same time, in a simple and easy to use, but powerful device. Your friends at school will think you are the coolest. Your kids will think you are awesome. The opposite sex will find you irresistible. Even the geeks that have been calling you troll for so long will finally be brought to their knees and admit that you were right all along for putting your blind faith in Microsoft!"

OK. Maybe not quite in those words, but you get the idea.
;)

Alright, lets get back on topic (and to reality) now.

http://statesmansentinel.com/2012/10...ndows-phone-8/

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I love rm42's answer to that question :D My answer is I don't know and I don't care. For me it is an alternative to the boring and stale ios and android. NT is a powerfull OS with no inherent restrictions. With the Lumia 920 I will get a top phone (way too large but ok) and I will get constant updates and improvents preventing me from getting bored.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

:rolleyes:

You do know you'll be luck if that thing has the ability to transfer files through bluetooth, right?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

WP7.x doesn't sell, if WP8 offers no discernible advantages it seems unlikely it will sell either.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/...000/2012-10-18

Doesn't look good.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

[IRONI]
No problem there is european left for nokia to sell WP phones........
[/IRONI]

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Consider this: Nokia have picked their CEO and more recently the chief of not selling anything much from the North American market. They focus on american design and american software, they believe only american will survive in the phone OS market. In this market they manage to sell 300,000 cell phones in Q3.

In what they for some unfathomable reason deem their most important market for them. The board that chose Elop to conquer North America did a grave mistake. This North America marketshare envy has killed Nokia, efficiently.

They are selling 300,000 phones, only Lumia phones available, in Northern America. Under 3 million smart phones world wide.

Nokia has about 100,000 employees.

That's 10 smart phones per employee. Some of which are bought for the employees themselves.

Nokia can't survive like this. Maybe Microsoft Windows 8 has the ability to capture users in a way where Windows Phone 7.5, 7.0, Windows Mobile 6.5, 6.1, 6.0, 5, 2003 SE, 2003, Pocket PC 2002, Pocket PC 2000, and all Windows CE variants before them, not to mention Microsoft Kin, failed utterly to capture users. If not, Nokia is gone. And the desperate thing for Nokia is, they can't even affect the outcome. Microsoft hold their loop over the gallows and Microsoft have already come out and said they want to make their own iPhones hardware now, which NOKIA.CEO just before announced that he, uhm, didn't believe would happen, surely.

Nokia's just burning through the assets now.

Meanwhile, in TMO, there are close to 1000 posts in the "Look what I drew on my phone" thread. This is just one of the signs of what kind of enthusiasm for a single model phone that didn't support multitouch, that wasn't slim, that didn't have a scratch resistant display, that didn't have a large app base, that wasn't a very polished experience, Nokia can only dream about ever again.

The Nokia N900 was my Nokia phone. I don't expect I'll be having any more.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Maybe that was exacly what US investors wanted from begining. Just look at it now. USA now owns more patents from european. Most because EU is broken peace of **** and where we prefer sell out everything instead of keep our innovations.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You're not making sense in the least...?

If I read you right, you're suggesting that investors would put good money into Nokia to influence the board to get Nokia to collapse? To... something something patents something nationality?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The error you all are doing is to mix unrelated issues together. Nokia had loads of problems, unrelated but ultimately rooted in poor management over several years. When the iPhone and Android came, Nokia had no way to answer.

The Lumia 920 will actually do rather well. Not a smash hit like the iPhone, but enough to keep Nokia alive together with Asha. Buuuut maybe Nokia should consider making androids instead of those ashas before it is too late. S40 has limited future.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Excellent go and say this to Elop so he can kill the last cash-cow Nokia has :rolleyes:...


Did you even go out of your house to see why Asha sells? Well from what I've asked people in India these are the reasons:

- Nice & trendy designs

- Nice looking software

- Durable hardware

- Enough apps for their purposes

- Easy to use (People who are not tech-savvy can do exactly what they want without having to ask around much)

- Cheap, Modern & Fast (Perfect upgrade from regular Nokia/China OEM featurephones)

- Its a NOKIA!


Now tell me going with Android how would you have nice looking software, easy to use and fast OS on that cheap hardware? Remember the Asha uses A11 chips that are clocked at 1Ghz which is clearly insufficient for Android...

People who are not tech-savvy want something they can just use and that just works at a low budget and Asha is perfect for them...I agree S40 is not what we would seriously use but then for these people they take a picture click send via bluetooth and done; they don't need to find and debug why their Android is acting up...


Yes, Android has more apps and is better for the long-term on proper hardware but then in a country with a low wage even $10 is a huge amount when considering between competing phones...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Asha phones and Android phones are in different segments. For now. Android phones and Windows phones are in the same segment. Sort of.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Hi Volt

I didn't realise it was this bad.

quote: "Maybe Microsoft Windows 8 has the ability to capture users in a way where Windows Phone 7.5, 7.0, Windows Mobile 6.5, 6.1, 6.0, 5, 2003 SE, 2003, Pocket PC 2002, Pocket PC 2000, and all Windows CE variants before them, not to mention Microsoft Kin, failed utterly to capture users."

Not forgetting at a slight tangent Microsoft are failing dismally in search with Bing and the total failure of Zune.

I am reasonably confident Surface will go the same way as Zune.

Specc is quite frankly wrong with his baseless assertion that anyone who chooses to support Maemo in a Maemo forum must be a troll and that

Quote: "The point here is they are NOT doing the SAME thing over again. WP8 IS totally different than WP7x. All you trolls have pointed to that ..."

Is quite a bizarre statement of self-delusion given that Microsoft is now on less than 2% of all phones given the totality of the history of versions that Volt has listed and this dropping from roughly 1 in 4 devices nearly 10 years ago.

Clearly Microsoft are doing more of the same thing and equally clearly it isn't working.

How is one more version of WPanything going to achieve even a tiny fraction of the market as it stands?

It is inevitable that closed source mentality is driving (has already driven) foreclosure in that market as developers gravitate towards more open platforms since they can quite simply do more things.

The evidence is that Android is flourishing and that Maemo and its progeny is still alive and kicking despite Elops best efforts and may have a bright future in Jolla.

Whereas Microsoft is not and has not been "kewl" for a very long time.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

In between Apple introducing the iPhone and Elop deprecating Symbian/MeeGo NOKIA's sales of smart devices nearly doubled from 15 million per quarter to over 28 million per quarter. That's a verifiable fact.

I'm not denying NOKIA had problems, ugly outdated hardware with slow processors, tiny droplets of RAM and no gpu but their problems were not insurmountable until they exclusively adopted a third-party OS that had already failed in the market place.


Why will it do well? What's different to previous Lumias?


I also think the Ashas have a limited future but because of J2ME rather than S40. At this end of the market Meltemi/Qt (or even Symbian) would have been a better solution than Android though.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Its will be interesting to nokia in Q4 and Q113. Personalty, I expect to see more people get fired and the result more stable(no necessarily earning money). Nokia will be split up or bought by a bigger fish.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia stock price has tumbled 6% today on the news they are planning to issue 750million Euros of convertible bonds to boost their cash balance

From http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ac698a38-1...44feabdc0.html
.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The point is that as time passer, Android phones will get cheaper and cheaper. Asha and S40 is OK today, but in two years time? Even Nokia cannot compete with the monster of a mass production machine Android HW represents. Cheap phones can run android 2.x for years to come.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

And yet Specc even here you are wrong.

Android doesn't make HW.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia is like a committed lover. The relationship with WP is going thru rough times. You got to persevere and keep the course. Nokia did the right thing to ditch obsolete Symbian and non-competitive Maemo/Harmattan.

Nokia is not a software company. They can't compete with the big boys. They realized it. They acted. Will see if they can recover from otherwise certain death.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

An act of desperation. What a fool I was, buying more stock at 2.17 EUR. I don't think there's any way out of the mess that Mr. Elop created. Nokia will be bankrupt soon. At least my losses are rather marginal.. imagine the people who wasted 10s of thousands to the stock :(

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

"You got to persevere and keep the course."

No ... I don't ...

I am happy with my Maemo device and my Galaxy Note.

Nokia has nothing to add to that and soon Nokia won't have anything to do with this forum either.

But I wish you luck.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

With these variations, it will be back at 2.17 and above before Nokia's gone, I wouldn't despair yet. Some positive Windows Phone 8 reviews will lift Nokia at some time, surely.

Still, the variation is down ATM, touching €2:

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...c853028d6c.png


Here's something to calm your 2.17 nerves:

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/...72de744c75.png

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I said Android hardware represents

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Making your sales crash, turning your profits into losses and making your gross margin a negative number is doing 'the right thing'? Did you do the same business studies course as Stephen Elop by any chance?

They were 'the big boys'. No longer though, Samsung have capitalised on every idiotic decision Elop has made.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

This deserves to be repeated a 1000 times...

People like Lumiaman look at Nokia's products in developed countries and say bla bla bla...

Look at India which till one year ago was around 60% Nokia dominated...

Nokia had dealerships not only in every city but in most major malls and street markets...This drives your products' volumes even if your product is sh*t as remember accessibility to products counts alot...

What happened? Elop took over, changed budgets, thought that the American markets is #1 and instructed Asian operations to not bother much with these dealerships...

What next? Samsung went to every dealership and offered more from the product's RSP as well as paid higher for the advertising display and signage in an outlet! The dealers asked Nokia to offer something similar but due to Elop's bs orders they didn't put any counter-offer and by the time they realized the number of dealerships changing hands, it was too late to get them back on board! Remember, when you want to retain a dealer you just need to offer an incremental increase citing old relations etc but when you want to convert a dealer you need to offer much higher!

Soon, a market that had 0 Samsung dealerships was becoming one with majorly dominated by Samsung dealerships...Now what do these retailers promote? Obviously Samsung instead of Nokia! Nothing to do with OS etc just plain old retail management!

Now with Nokia realizing their mistakes, they are going back to the same dealers with a higher offer but too bad Samsung has signed them on at least 2 year contracts!


Before someone like Lumiaman says the above is false well I've done my homework :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Specc, only you are trying to conflate Android and HW. Nokia has always been capable of competing on equal footing with any of the other Hardware players by including an Android offering any time it wanted to.

It is only Elop that has driven the mandated WP8 strategy which is always going to be more costly than an equivalent Android combination due to OS costs.

Android + HW vendors can improve their customer facing offerings with the money saved from the raw OS cost over any proprietary offering such as WP8 + Nokia HW.

It is for this reason that Microsoft et al have been engaged in patent disputes worldwide (starting with SCO many years ago) to try to raise the cost of ownership of Linux based systems such as Android simply because they know they can't compete on a level playing field.

The sad thing is, Nokia hardware with Android would have been a truly superb offering and could have been delivered by largely the same team presenting Maemo/Meego etc. Similar skills etc.

Well the dice have been rolled, time will tell, either way Microsoft have little to lose, they can't compete currently and Elop has successfully removed several mainstream competitors to Windows in one fell swoop.

If Nokia come out of this at all it will be a miracle.

Good luck

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

uTMY's thoughts seems a fair assessment, although I do believe Microsoft can compete on a level playing field. They do not compete, but if they fixed their team, I don't believe proprietary licensing would stop them. Licenses are a part of hardware production, and Microsoft's even capable of making their own hardware.

They just can't get the OS salesworthy in how many tries now.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

It's not Elop. The board wants Nokia to be more than just an HW OEM. WP was the only path they saw that had a chance of success, Elop the instrument to make it happen.

You can say that people don't want WP, well the same people didn't want Symbian or Maemo either. They wanted Android and/or iPhone. The problem with Maemo/Symbian was that Nokia just couldn't make it work.

Nokia will live, relax. Lumia 920 is OK. But if you want a real Linux experience, now you can: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Offic...exus-7_id35788 Today, the Nexus 7, tomorrow the Galaxy Nexus (or whatever the next gen will be called). Forget about Jolla, it's just a distraction, a continuation of a semi open, semi closed endeavour that really has no place. Ubuntu on Nexus 7 is the real thing, real Linux on real HW.

Nokia has not delivered a top spec phone since the N95. Every single Nokia phone since the N95 have been at least one year behind the competition spec wise, (meaning CPU, RAM, screen NOT camera and phone functionality). The Lumia 920 is getting there, lets say it's only 6 months behind, but WP8 will weigh up for that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

On the contrary, NOKIA were more than a hardware OEM now they are not. Microsoft now controls whatever it is that passes as an 'ecosystem'.

You don't know that. NOKIA's sales were growing right up until Elop publicly deprecated Symbian/MeeGo and the N9 received very favourable reviews. Real world facts seem rather at odds with your baseless assertion.

Even now with zero marketing, limited availability and very outdated hardware NOKIA's Symbian devices continue to outsell their WPx devices which have had enormous marketing budgets lavished on them by NOKIA, Microsoft and AT&T.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You keep repeating this stuff about how great Symbian and N9 are/were. It seems to me like you have either never used these devices and/or you have no ability to compare with competitors. I mean, have you used N8 when it came out? I mean, that was one of the worst touchscreen phones of all time. I couldnt type a sentence without getting angry and cursing the day I bought this abomination. N9 is the same when placed against competitors (iphone, etc). Where have you been to make such ridiculous statements? NOKIA OSs were going down, burning fast, and they had to change the course. So stop being apologizer without with your sales numbers that belie the inevitable death of NOKIA supported OSs. No wonder you are the only one left buying NOKIA OS devices. No wonder their sales are so bad. They should have transitioned 4 years ago to Android or something better.

READ MY LIPS: NOKIA IS NOT A SOFTWARE COMPANY.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

NOKIA should have gone Android route, but they should have done it before Elop. By the time Elop came, it was too late. With regards to Maemo team, I honestly think they cant deliver. It took them since 2008 to come up with N9, and they came up with a beta device. Sorry, but that team had not leadership, no wonder Jussa got axed as a CEO and they put some Mark guy there now.

What is this obsession with Elop? Elop was brought in to do the obvious. Get rid of obsolete OSs (Symbian, Maemo, Meego) and move on. They considered Android, they went with WP. Why they did that, we will never know the details. And certainly you and I have the least of them. Stop bashing Elop when problems at NOKIA were clearly bad prior to him. He is cleaning the house, and he may clean the whole company with his decisions, but he tried. NOKIA was otherwise destined for certain death.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Other than the bigger ecosystem, how was the iPhone 4S better than the N9? As far as I know, iOS still doesn't have such basic things as for example profiles even in its latest version..

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

By your own admission you'd never used an Android device until recently. When you did try a Galaxy, a top of the range Android device, you said it sucked and you couldn't believe anyone would buy one, yet it sells in huge numbers.

Previously you said WP7 was what most people wanted and Elop was right to adopt it for NOKIA, now WP7 has indisputably failed for NOKIA you're saying NOKIA should have transitioned to Android 4 years ago? Do you even know what Android was like 4 years ago? Do you think it was in better shape than Maemo then?

You say the N8 and N9 were abominations and yet you bought both, multiple times in the case of the N9. And you're questioning my judgement?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I don't think anyone is questioning your judgement. Whenever we see your judgement, a silent echo resonates in the crowd: faaaaiiiill