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-   -   Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55603)

railroadmaster 2010-06-17 20:18

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 719735)
I have to reiterate what Danramos is stating... Flash is not a standard. It is only one of the better methods for streaming video that came out on top of Real Video and even Quicktime in terms of flexibility and whatnot.

But Flash is much more than video. To concentrate on just that one aspect is cheapening what a tool Flash can be.

And people who don't include it, have their reasons. I might not agree with those reasons, but it makes sense to them.

Thank you for correcting me. However I still think it is stupid for Apple to ban Adobe Flash. They say they support open standards while in truth they don't. They only support the proprietary h.264 video codec for video playback with html5.

gerbick 2010-06-17 20:21

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
The ability to create *.swf is open, but the Adobe Flash Player is not open.

railroadmaster 2010-06-17 20:22

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 719752)
The ability to create *.swf is open, but the Adobe Flash Player is not open.

That is pretty common knowledge. You can download the specification from Adobe's website.

gerbick 2010-06-17 20:24

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
You have to separate the *.swf from the Adobe Flash Player. That's what Apple is protesting. They say that the plugin is responsible for the majority of Safari errors/exceptions.

Yet... they've yet to expose all of the GPU and plugin architecture until... well, just last month.

The problem around Safari and the Flash Player could be surrounding their choices of what they did not make open to folks - not just Flash.

But to say "open standards" and then say "Flash Player" in the same breath, it's a bit off. I'm going for accuracy here.

wmarone 2010-06-17 20:24

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by railroadmaster (Post 719744)
Thank you for correcting me. However I still think it is stupid for Apple to ban Adobe Flash. They say they support open standards while in truth they don't. They only support the proprietary h.264 video codec for video playback with html5.

Correction: the h.264 standard is, in fact, open. However, it is also patent encumbered, which is the problem. Hopefully the MPEG-LA will get snarled in a nasty patent war with Google and something good in the way of docking software patents will come out of it, if re. Bilski doesn't.

danramos 2010-06-17 20:33

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
Say what you mean, mean what you say. Accurate terminology is precious in conveying an accurate meaning and argument. Flash is NOT a standard. It's common, but not a standard. (Much like RealPlayer was common--but never a standard.) Apple might have nefarious reasons, but what they're saying about HTML5 as a better way to present content on a web page is quite reasonable and well said. h264 is an encumbered standard due to patents--it's not a piece of software, it's a standard--but that's yet another element of the conversation about HTML5 implemented video versus requiring a Flash plugin just to present video content.

In the end, HTML5 *IS* the right way to go, but which codec to use is a whole other conversation.

garyc2010 2010-06-17 20:47

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by danramos (Post 719769)
Say what you mean, mean what you say. Accurate terminology is precious in conveying an accurate meaning and argument. Flash is NOT a standard. It's common, but not a standard. (Much like RealPlayer was common--but never a standard.) Apple might have nefarious reasons, but what they're saying about HTML5 as a better way to present content on a web page is quite reasonable and well said. h264 is an encumbered standard due to patents--it's not a piece of software, it's a standard--but that's yet another element of the conversation about HTML5 implemented video versus requiring a Flash plugin just to present video content.

In the end, HTML5 *IS* the right way to go, but which codec to use is a whole other conversation.


WebM will pwn !!! let the patent wars begin !!!!!!!!!

woody14619 2010-06-17 20:52

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nosa101 (Post 708059)
So if I buy a song on iTunes then send it to you via Bluetooth, that is totally ok?

So if my band wants to send out free MP3s of our songs on the internet to get started, and encourage others to send it via Bluetooth to others for free, that's totally illegal? According to Apple it is... Just because you have a religious belief doesn't mean I should have to live by it. Same applies here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frappacino (Post 716858)
They impose DRM not to piss off the users or for principles, its becuase it makes the platform a selling point for the PRODUCERS of the DRMed content, whether that be an APP or any other media content.

No, it makes the existing distributors (aka labels) of the content happy, not the producers (aka artists). And frankly, most folks have already come to the realization that DRM is a waste of time, since someone always finds a way around it (sometimes before it's even implemented), and illegal copying still happens. This is why major distributors (like Walmart and Amazon) have already chucked DRM in favor of more open non-DRM formats.

Fact is, Amazon makes plenty of money selling standard, non-DRM MP3s. And tons of media players (From Sansa to cheap Taiwan knockoffs) are happy to let you copy those MP3 files to and from their devices like they're memory sticks, and have done so for years. Welcome to the 2000s.

And yes, 100% of my music is legitimately owned. I make my living off selling software. Pirating software or music is counter-productive to my karma. Or were you projecting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysss (Post 718719)
This is bs. Jalilbreaking an iPhone takes less than 2 minutes and has about the same amount of risk to flashing an N900.

Wrong. If you brick your iPhone you have no recourse but to return it to Apple. That's not the same amount of risk as the N900, where you can always reflash it (via a documented hardware shortcut). Right now Apple doesn't do a postmortem to see why it's dead, but if they change that policy, you're screwed. They also don't have the device phone home, or intentionally shutdown if they find a root kit, but they could if they wanted to quite easily. The N900 has no such mechanism, and because they intentionally expect people to get root and alter their device, there's no worries about voiding the warranty if you do.

Jailbreaking an iPhone is taking a large risk. Up till now that risk has generally not had a harsh consequence if things went wrong, and that may or may not change in the future. With the N900, there is next to no risk, since the tools and permission to do so are clearly spelled out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyc2010 (Post 719424)
If it was a stable platform then yes, but i cba faffing about just to get basic things to work, on my linux desktop/notebook yes, but not my phone.

PS where is the freedom in Nokias closed binaries ????

Clearly you are "cba faffing" at typing as well...

Tell me, what "basic thing" is broken with the N900? I can make calls, use SMS, MMS, take pictures and videos, upload them to a dozen sites, chat via IM... What "basic thing" is unstable about that? The N900 is one of the most stable platforms I've worked with, which is saying a lot based on where I've worked in the past.

Even just "playing with scripts" is quite useful. Maybe you haven't heard, but there are lots of scripts that do plenty of useful things in the world. The Apple order page is a script, written in PHP, so clearly they think scripts are useful, since that "script" just handed them a wad of cash. And tell me, does your iPhone let you run scripts? No? Didn't think so. So flexible...

As for Nokia's closed binaries, sure, some of it is closed, but everything has closed components. What little parts are closed in the N900 usually have well documented APIs so you can interface with it without needing the code. Beats the crap out of the non-existent APIs for Apple's closed binaries on a jailbroken phone. Your argument is like saying playdough isn't flexible enough because it's not a liquid or a gas, so you should just play with a brick instead. :confused:

ysss 2010-06-17 21:03

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 719801)
So if my band wants to send out free MP3s of our songs on the internet to get started, and encourage others to send it via Bluetooth to others for free, that's totally illegal? According to Apple it is... Just because you have a religious belief doesn't mean I should have to live by it. Same applies here.

I haven't heard of any explanation/excuses about the bluetooth situation. But they've been known to ride on technology/standards that they think are taking off and leaving things that are on the way out. Right now that's what they're doing with html5 vs flash.
Reference: Jobs' D8 interview.

Quote:

Wrong. If you brick your iPhone you have no recourse but to return it to Apple. Right now Apple doesn't do a postmortem to see why it's dead, but if they change that policy, you're screwed.
How familiar are you of the iPhone's flashing procedure?
Have you heard of recovery mode? Can you point out a bricked-iphone story that's not due to hardware defect?

Yes, companies can change their policy to screw you. (read below)

Quote:

They also don't have the device phone home, or intentionally shutdown if they find a root kit, but they could if they wanted to quite easily. The N900 has no such mechanism, and because they intentionally expect people to get root and alter their device, there's no worries about voiding the warranty if you do.
Have you read about the SMS auto-registration that's done by N900?

Quote:

Jailbreaking an iPhone is taking a large risk. Up till now that risk has generally not had a harsh consequence if things went wrong, and that may or may not change in the future.
This sounds like FUD to me.

nosa101 2010-06-17 21:09

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 719801)
So if my band wants to send out free MP3s of our songs on the internet to get started, and encourage others to send it via Bluetooth to others for free, that's totally illegal? According to Apple it is... Just because you have a religious belief doesn't mean I should have to live by it. Same applies here.

If you don't want to play by Apple's rules then don't use the Apple device. There is no mechanism to determine what is legal or illegal. The iPhone can't suddenly decide to transfer your band's music and not transfer something bought from the iTunes store.


Also, I think it is hilarious that jailbreaking is oh-so-bad and overclocking is oh-so-good. They both void the warranty.

As you say, "I can do whatever with my device"


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