Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

Quick reply...
Some criteria, like karma, is used to make sure that people who have done something (and not spam-bots or one-time visitors) are voting.
Shrugging... I am not much interested in Council Elections, though I have taken part in at least one of them. Making the elections visible - like, 'political' debates on TMO during the elections - might be helpful in getting more voters.
Currently Active Users: 875 (144 members and 731 guests)
Most users ever online was 6,783, 09-19-11 at 03:02.
Can anybody tell significance of the date?
Well, here is one...
I apologize if I have given you an impression of disagreeing with introduction of something new. I hope that this thread is not exactly representative of Community discussion, since from the start "Hildon Foundation" (which had been decided on with little prior community consultation) was considered as the name preferred by the Council. Personally, I have voted for Aeolos, MeR-Community, Marineris, TMO.
Best regards.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

Oh I see you chime in with your smart-*** attitude again.
It was not MY crusade as you like to characterise it...
Read the posts, I was ready to throw the towel in long ago.
What was frustrating, was not getting any sort explanation as-to-why it was all so hard to do, long before the poll had even started.
I'm not here to big note myself in any way, or push some kind of agenda, couldn't give a **** when it comes to stuff like that.
[and I'll stress that I'm not the least bit interested in feathering my nest for a future run for the council/board, I'll leave better suited people for that]
I've spelt out very clearly along the way what it is I was hoping to achieve.
I've always been very clear if it's too impractical that's fine, but at the very least give a solid rationale as-to-why, that's NEVER happened.
And if it really isn't a solid rationale, be prepared to be challenged on that, that's all.
Again, I'm not oblivious to the hard work SD69 & others are doing, & it IS appreciated, but that doesn't excuse how things have unfolded.

How about we get some proper context here, here was his/her full post:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=108
To which I responded....
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=109
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=114
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=120
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=125
Not a single clarification or response to any of that...
Plus there was MANY posts long before his at #108 asking the same sort of questions.

Anyway, you should be happy, it looks like Hildon is becoming the run away favourite in the Poll.
Seems like many users agree that it's more representative of the Maemo/MeeGo, MeR, & NitDroid derivatives than the other candidates.
Democracy at it's finest hey....
Still, NFP/Co's being registered under the same name was apparently a big concern for SD69.
I wonder if it still is now that we know that the same issue's there for Hildon, SD69, any comments, finally?

Think that may have been due to the "epic N9/50 anticipation" thread, it was at it's peak around then, it 1st started shipping around then or a wk later IIRC.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

Well I don't think you got my point...I know karma is used for the elections...

What I mean is that when only 230 members even bothered to vote for Council Elections; for someone to proclaim that since TMO has 65k+ registered members, the results we get from this poll would be insignificant isn't right...

As you posted the link of current online users you can see only 144 registered members are online instead of the high numbers you may expect for a forum with 65k+ registered members...I mean hence, you can't discredit the poll that was put up here due to a small proportion of people voting from the amount of registered voters just as you don't discredit the Council Elections for only having 230 voters voting...

I am just wondering aloud why is it whenever somebody who hasn't been here for a long time proposes something for the community is he put away instead of being encouraged? Why is there this old vs new divide that is very visible from the amount of smart-a** posts put out by those old members especially against those who are not in agreement with them or those who are introducing something new?

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

There's a meeting at 19:00 UTC at #maemo-meeting, I suspect most of the "communicating" will be done there.
That's 5am my time on a Saturday, & I already have prior commitments....
ivgalvez had promised to raise the issue of why the poll was being ditched so readily at that meeting, & if that was really imperative.
But that was before that post SD69 made in another thread, which I re-posted & addressed here.
Even though it's already registered under Hildon*, there's the new issue that a NFP called Hildon exists, which no doubt will be raised.

*& assumedly can't be changed in the event that something else is more popular

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

I think it's perfectly valid to question the validity of any poll where the participation rate is small. That does not necessarily mean that the result should be null and void, only that the result may not be a true representation of opinion.

I think that having 17 pages of discussion about something as trivial as a name is part of the problem, not the solution. I get the impression that some people in the Harmattan camp are obsessed with having some recognition for Harmattan in every single aspect of the community. Looking at the 'Announce' threads, I see plenty of new software for the Harmattan devices. There's your recognition. Stop wasting time debating a fvcking name.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

No crusade, only a by all means positive initiative for this community with best intentions.
The idea was to have a discussion about it and at the end have a decision backed by the community, some weird democracy-thing or stuff...

This thread started on Sept 3rd...
Claiming almost 2 weeks later that it's too late now is... well, I leave that to you.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

Well, with all due respect Marixan, that "impression" would be totally false....
Have you even bothered to READ the posts throughout this thread* before asserting that -frankly- insulting opinion, certainly doesn't sound like it.
Anyway... no hard feelings, & apologies again if some have been provoked**, I'm over it & I hope everyone else will be soon enough.
I just hope we've learnt something from it all (me included), & that we'll approach discussing site_name & or domain(s) in a far more coordinated/organised & civil manner.
It'll be best if the BoD/Council is behind that from the outset next time though, & is mostly driving it, but open/transparent/responsive to input ofc.

*And I wouldn't wish such pain on my worst enemy, but it didn't have to be as convoluted as it end-up being, that's been my whole point, which you seem to have skirted over
**no apology to benny who's served to be nothing but accusatory & destructive throughout this whole process...

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

I don't want to just argue for the sake of it but IIRC jalyst was clearly told on another thread to start a new thread if he wanted to get another name for the foundation...He did so and many pages in this thread were proposing/debating names and NOT debating the worthiness of having this thread...

Its too easy at times to proclaim that the so-called Harmattan camp want to leave their mark everywhere when they should simply be boxed into their Announce threads only...

Might as well for Community related issues and Community governance issues make a new rule that if you joined after Harmattan released and are majorly a n9/950 user only then you are banned from Community discussion...

I wonder if the name was something not inclusive of the Freemantle side of things what would these same people come out with...Oh they would have kept quiet and not asked for a more inclusive name? If you read the first draft of the by-laws you would have seen that jalyst pointed out to Council that it was very divisive by not having a single mention of the continuation of Nokia's efforts after the n900...After he pointed it out then the n9/950 was added in...

I don't bother with such minor issues; I just felt that a inclusive name should be used and the Community should be allowed to vote for a name...


Anyway, I am sorry for hurting all of you with my comments...Will try to exclude myself from Community discussion in the future...

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

Vote for MEEH = MaEmo mEr Harmattan
btw whos made that lists of name ? :D

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

In order for this to proceed, legal papers must be filed, and must be in place before work can start. We noted several times, both in the bylaw threads, the Ask the Council thread, the meetings, and even in one of the drafts of the bylaws themselves, that we would need to nail this stuff down by the 17th at the latest. As things are, delays moved that to yesterday.

The filings are underway, and the paper trail started. If we had put off filing any longer the paperwork would not be completed and filed with the proper offices by the time the elections finished. As it stands, it's likely there will be a delay between the Board being elected and it being able to actually act because of paperwork delays that have already happened.

Changing the organizational name after the filings are in place is possible, it just costs money to do so. There's also the option of adding a name, like a DBA (Does Business As), which will probably be the easier thing to do. For that reason, I say let the poll take it's course. We can always add or adopt a new name. As things stand, Hildon Foundation was then, and is now, still topping the poll.

As for "just waiting 6 more days", tell me: How do you think Nokia and others will react to the Board when it says "Sorry, we can't negotiate with you for another 6 days because of filing delays from when we were deciding on a name"? That's pretty sad.

The bylaws,FYI, are an odd exception in this case. Bylaws for the group must be approved of by the first Board to become effective, so they can be discussed, reviewed, and revised right up to that first meeting. That's the only reason that discussion is still going on as well. I personally wanted those nailed down by the 17th as well, so people nominated for the positions would know what they were in for. But legally, they don't need to be finished until the first day the Board is active. So let me make it crystal clear here, for all to read:
The bylaws MUST be finished by October 12th!


It's also mildly frustrating to push for something for several months, only to have someone object to something at the very last minute, and demand more time to resolve it. Especially when after noting we have limited time, it took over a week to commit to doing a poll, and two more days to revised the OP, review that, and start the poll! For what? So we'd see the results point to the original choice?

You say we didn't communicate this, but we have. We've been talking about this for months. It's been on the Mailing List, it's been in the weekly IRC meetings, it's been in the Blog posts of those meetings, and in the TMO posts related to that. We even made additional posts, and had moderators make them sticky to increase their visibility. I ask you, what more would you prefer we had done? Send you a personal invitation to comment on each thing we've discussed via a PM or e-mail? It's not like this was in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory, with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.

Sorry, I know you're upset. But to hear someone say "I didn't know X!", after we've done everything short of spam-mailing all 65K users here about every little thing as it happens, is beyond frustrating.

The root of every issue this Council cycle has had has been individual people saying "I didn't know X!", when it had been out there to see, in quadruplicate, for months. Talked about, hashed, rehashed, in 4 different mediums, 20 different ways.

"I didn't know Council could compete in the CA!"
"I didn't know there even was a CA!"
"I didn't know I needed to link my TMO profile to have enough Karma to vote!"
"I didn't know we were forming a foundation!"
"I didn't know voting for CC even started!"

I guarantee you, during the vote cycle, people will come here to ask "What's this 'Board' election about?" And "Why didn't you tell us about this, and why can't we have say in X?!"

There are probably a ton of people that don't know that Quim is no longer at Nokia. Or that Nokia is not renewing it's contract to keep the servers running past December. Or that there's been anything at all going on here to try to stop everything from going dark at the end of the year.

To each of these people I ask: If you really care that badly, why would you not spend a drop of effort to keep up with anything going on? We care enough to put it out there in at least 4 different ways, every week, sometimes every day! You can read or even rss-feed the Blog, read or subscribe to one of several forum threads, subscribe to the mailing list, linger on IRC, or read the bot-logs from the channels. Any ONE of those would have gotten you this information. And at least 3 of those you can automate to the point that systems will push that info directly into you mailbox, or desktop, or widget, or instant message, or SMS, or tweet, or USB smoke-signal generator, or whatever you use as a primary communications media.

It just gets to me when, after months of doing everything I can to keep on top of things and make sure things are known, and open, and transparent as they can possibly be, people still pop up and go "I didn't know X! And it's your fault for not driving to my house, knocking on my door, and telling me, directly, in my language, and forcing me to repeat it back to you, and then reminding me the next day in the same way, for week."

Sorry... But you need to take some responsibility for this on yourself. Democracy requires of it's constituency a very minimal amount of effort to stay informed about what's going on. If you don't expend that minimal effort, it's hardly fair to complain about it.