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-   -   Another proof Elop is a trojan horse (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74660)

BigBadGuber! 2011-07-25 02:14
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
the war is over. China is only eating Apples.....amazing success

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/te...titors.html?hp

danramos 2011-07-25 02:54
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! (Post 1057623)
the war is over. China is only eating Apples.....amazing success

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/te...titors.html?hp
I'm making a note here:
HUGE SUCCESS.

gerbick 2011-07-25 03:04
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
The cake is a lie?

danramos 2011-07-25 06:15
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1057631)
The cake is a lie?
I wish the MANGO was a lie.

gerbick 2011-07-25 06:28
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1057667)
I wish the MANGO was a lie.
Don't forget I have a WP7 device. Mango needs to happen, then it will be compared even more heavily and Nokia will see what they're dealing with as their future choice.

And honestly, really digging the UI so far. But this isn't an OS I'd bet on if I were Nokia.

jo21 2011-07-25 07:31
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1057674)
Don't forget I have a WP7 device. Mango needs to happen, then it will be compared even more heavily and Nokia will see what they're dealing with as their future choice.

And honestly, really digging the UI so far. But this isn't an OS I'd bet on if I were Nokia.

and theythink gotta hit 5m sales.. but i dont expect much really.

nokia needs a over few devices will need several jesus phones. over the next year to keep marketshare.

switch-hitter 2011-07-25 08:29
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber!
As I said above, judge him after 3 years. Every change brings anxiety, and pessimism.
NOKIA haven't got three years, due to Elop's duplicity NOKIA's assets are now worth more than the company which means they are in real danger of being bought and asset stripped. My bet is M$ will get NOKIA's IPR and Elop will return to Ballmer's loving embrace and even more M$ shares.


Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos
You'll notice that Microsoft STILL hasn't won any such patent cases even against HTC regarding Android, nevermind Linux and kernel. Microsoft often likes to strike up the war drums and litigate about patents and that sometimes leads to licensing settlements whether they're authentic or not.

I think the point he was trying to make is that if MeeGo ever does get popular enough, even THOSE handset makers would be similarly threatened.
I think there's another difference here, Google have made it the manufacturers responsibilty to defend patent claims against Android but Intel have stated they would use their own extensive patent portfolio to defend MeeGo against patent challenges.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tso
Not sure i see the issue with question 1, as i think the carriers are primarily a issue in USA. If we let carriers dictate, thing are heading for "acoustic couplers" very quickly...
Carriers ARE in control, they forced NOKIA out of the US market in 2004 and NOKIA's absolutely disastrous figures for last quarter are because Elop has caused NOKIA to lose carrier support everywhere.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugoz
Well symbian has been killed now. It still eludes me how they could abandon the reasonable strategy to bridge symbian and meego with Qt. Developers could start making apps for meego and continuing improving the ones for symbian. I mean they worked for years on this and stopped before the finish line, how stupid.
I agree. I was trying the beta of Qt Creator with QtQuick and I thought it was excellent.

danramos 2011-07-25 09:29
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1057714)
I think there's another difference here, Google have made it the manufacturers responsibilty to defend patent claims against Android but Intel have stated they would use their own extensive patent portfolio to defend MeeGo against patent challenges.
Wow! I hadn't heard that! Intel has an indemnification for hardware manufacturers? Is it ONLY Intel that made that promise or is there some MeeGo-wide requirement to provide indemnification? Where did you see that? If that's true--that's a pretty big bucket of WIN for MeeGo and huge PR points for Intel (potentially all involved).

ericsson 2011-07-25 09:43
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1057714)
NOKIA's absolutely disastrous figures for last quarter are because Elop has caused NOKIA to lose carrier support everywhere.
Stop this nonsense, please. Nokias smartphones today are Symbian. Except from the N8 and the rather niche-ish E6, Nokia is not competitive against Android or iPhone. That is the truth, and it has nothing to do with Elop. Carrier support? All Nokia phones can be purchased with full carrier "support" (and without it) world wide - except the USA, and Elop had no saying in those decisions.

Nokia has deliberately crippled their smartphones. This is done based on some lunacy deep inside Nokia, complete lack of competence, and has nothing to do with Elop. EDoF alone has probably killed half of Nokias sales of smartphones, maybe more. Nokia has had all the time in the world to make a good line-up of Symbian phones, but they ****ed up, they completely and utterly ****ed it up.

jo21 2011-07-25 10:02
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
it's ELOP fault

live with it.
:p

abill_uk 2011-07-25 10:09
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! (Post 1057530)
Three years is reasonable. He has a plan. Let him execute it.
If Nokia carry the same road they are on now then in 3 years they will be eaten up by MS and will no longer be a smartphone company on the list let alone top of it :p.

Very intersting to read some of these comments flying about.

ericsson 2011-07-25 10:15
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1057592)
Makes zero sense to not have a Plan B as they've pitched it thus far, especially for a company that hits multiple price points in multiple regions. WP7 doesn't hit all of those price points nor territories.

Of course you don't see the problem - therein lies the biggest problem. No solution for their cheaper phones once phased out. No solution for areas that don't have the Zune marketplace quite yet - necessary for WP7.

Surprisingly though, there's a N5 coming, Symbian based - remember when the N8 was to be the last N-series Symbian phone? - and other Symbian phones in the meantime. They can deliver those now.

This waiting game on the N9 and the Nokia WP7 phones means that Nokia loses more share per day. Once it gets low enough, they'll not be able to sell enough to dig themselves out of a hole, be it 3 years, 5 years or one blockbuster iteration of their WP7 phones (not likely).

I don't think much thought has been put into this plan. Nokia doesn't have time on their hands. Nor will they have all of the pieces to salvage their prior position in place in the next few years.

It will be interesting to watch what happens. So far, it's all speculation.

There should never be a Plan A, or Plan B. There just needs to be a damn good plan and that's missing from what we, mere mortals know.
Plan A should have been Symbian, but Nokia ****ed it up. Actually it was Symbian+MeeGo+Qt, in which Nokia ****ed it up even more. They had no plan B, and plan A imploded. Elop came in to be in charge of the new plan A (WP or Android), but this plan A is more of a life saving act than a plan. Obviously they had no plan B this time either. Still, life goes on, and Nokia can only continue doing what they always had done; produce phones.

IMO WP may fail, and there is no plan B to pick it up if they do. Meanwhile life hasn't stopped, and S40, Symbian and Harmattan has evolved. Android is still there, even though Nokia does not consider it a good choice. They may have no other choice than eventually go Android, but that time has not come, and probably never will.

hotnikkelz 2011-07-25 17:53
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1057753)
Stop this nonsense, please. Nokias smartphones today are Symbian. Except from the N8 and the rather niche-ish E6, Nokia is not competitive against Android or iPhone. That is the truth, and it has nothing to do with Elop. Carrier support? All Nokia phones can be purchased with full carrier "support" (and without it) world wide - except the USA, and Elop had no saying in those decisions.

Nokia has deliberately crippled their smartphones. This is done based on some lunacy deep inside Nokia, complete lack of competence, and has nothing to do with Elop. EDoF alone has probably killed half of Nokias sales of smartphones, maybe more. Nokia has had all the time in the world to make a good line-up of Symbian phones, but they ****ed up, they completely and utterly ****ed it up.
Everything this guy says is the truth. Nokia ***ed up years before Elop even dreamed of being Nokia's CEO. We can only wait and see now if Elop drives the nail in the coffin with WP7 decision or does some kind of necromancy on the Nokia smartphones' corpses.
On the positive side. Microsoft NEEDS to make WP7 be good, they have banked a lot on its eventual success. That is good for customers.

BigBadGuber! 2011-07-25 19:49
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotnikkelz (Post 1058030)
Everything this guy says is the truth. Nokia ***ed up years before Elop even dreamed of being Nokia's CEO. We can only wait and see now if Elop drives the nail in the coffin with WP7 decision or does some kind of necromancy on the Nokia smartphones' corpses.
On the positive side. Microsoft NEEDS to make WP7 be good, they have banked a lot on its eventual success. That is good for customers.
NOKIA dead wood around here doesnt see it this way. I think there is also some degree of nationalism that Europe doesnt have a high tech company anymore...etc, etc....Its easy to blame Elop for everything, including the price of milk in the grocery store.

Daneel 2011-07-25 20:17
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
If she floats, she's a witch!

gerbick 2011-07-25 21:28
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1057765)
IMO WP may fail, and there is no plan B to pick it up if they do.
Been waiting on an admittance that it could fail. That's all I wanted.

And no Plan B; that's just not good whatsoever.

momcilo 2011-07-25 21:41
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daneel (Post 1058129)
If she floats, she's a witch!
If she is a witch, she will avoid water, but not the fire... :D

Daneel 2011-07-25 22:15
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Burn her?

...............

erendorn 2011-07-25 22:21
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Until now Elop only really screw one thing: communication.
Especially the leaked memo and the symbian death announcement (instead of insisting on continued support, followed by phasing out).

His strategy itself seems sensible to me, and may or may not work.

marxian 2011-07-25 22:24
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daneel (Post 1058199)
Burn her?

...............
http://files.sharenator.com/3b9f4cf5...133226-535.jpg

mikecomputing 2011-07-26 00:46
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotnikkelz (Post 1056081)
....

Anyway, I understand many of the folks here are open source junkies and tinkerers, but I think WP7 gets too much unnecessary flak. It seems quite promising imo. Misses some key features, but not enough for me to call it junk and all the other disparaging things people say here.
Android is a great OS, but a bugfest as I've come to notice with seemingly ALL google software, I've passed through quite a few, and they've all been troublesome. I currently use a Nexus S.
you may have a valid points about wp7 but I guess most of us getting pissed because they say this is the only os they will use on smartphones. I mean let people decide what to use dont they should not feed us what we shall use. Dont go same as pc market where you must buy Microsoft licens even if the first yo do is go formatting the disc and install Linux or some other OS.

just take android now Microsoft makes profit obn every sold android too...

BigBadGuber! 2011-07-26 02:07
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Who cares? Apple won the war........only crumbs left for NOKIA

hotnikkelz 2011-07-26 02:55
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1058247)
you may have a valid points about wp7 but I guess most of us getting pissed because they say this is the only os they will use on smartphones. I mean let people decide what to use dont they should not feed us what we shall use. Dont go same as pc market where you must buy Microsoft licens even if the first yo do is go formatting the disc and install Linux or some other OS.

just take android now Microsoft makes profit obn every sold android too...
Yeah, I'm a bit upset about the ONLY OS thing. I will never understand why they can't keep pumping Meego as it is software, and build the hardware in parallel with WP7. It's silly and annoying. Somebody needs to ask Elop that questions. They would have Intel's monster money to push them too. Silly silly.

tso 2011-07-26 04:45
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1057714)
Carriers ARE in control, they forced NOKIA out of the US market in 2004 and NOKIA's absolutely disastrous figures for last quarter are because Elop has caused NOKIA to lose carrier support everywhere.
No, what Elop have done is exasperate the whiplashing that enthusiasts got from the Symbian/maemo/meego/GTK/Qt switcheroo by adding WP7 into the mix and refilling their servings of FUD. If USA had a sane market, the carriers would not be able to bully Nokia around.

lma 2011-07-26 05:52
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! (Post 1058112)
I think there is also some degree of nationalism that Europe doesnt have a high tech company anymore...etc, etc....
Trivial counter-examples: ARM, Infineon, ST, CSR (and that's just in the semiconductor business).

danramos 2011-07-26 07:05
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotnikkelz (Post 1058030)
Everything this guy says is the truth. Nokia ***ed up years before Elop even dreamed of being Nokia's CEO. We can only wait and see now if Elop drives the nail in the coffin with WP7 decision or does some kind of necromancy on the Nokia smartphones' corpses.
On the positive side. Microsoft NEEDS to make WP7 be good, they have banked a lot on its eventual success. That is good for customers.
They banked a LOT on the Zune, too.

don_falcone 2011-07-26 07:42
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1056455)
In fact, I bet that it will drop their core share to something half of what it is today in just 1 year - that's called speculation, not fact. Mainly because Zune Marketplace isn't even in most of those places, so that means content isn't there. Now that ecosystem is starting to lack some bite - Microsoft's that is. They're finally testing in Australia now for WP7.
Yeay, if you have to rely on an 'ecosystem' but the handcuffs, err, ecosystem is not available in your country, you're fooked big time. (It's a bit the same with being forced to buy software in € than in $ based on your IP address - $49.95 is way better than 49.95€... hello Agnitum!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1056455)
Bada has more exposure to more countries than WP7. And I'd call Bada a niche player.
Second that. Besides being not an OS with a clean architecture, it's more 'acceptable' regarding features and usage than WinMobile/WP by magnitudes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1056455)
I have a WP7 phone. Right now. Let me tell you this... it ain't ready for primetime. I've also played with build 7661 of Mango. Allow me to say that it brings some nice things to the table; still not ready for primetime.
Support Mango ringtone changes in any way? I could not believe that they * omitted such a feature that we are used to since, i dunno 2000? until i had the "honor" trying to 'fix' this on an HTC Mozart yesterday. After 4hrs i gave up trying to root it for installing custom ringtone changer. Not mentioning having to depend on crappy Zune sw too...

* They sell ringtones via Zune market, but read the bottom note on this page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphon...nd-sounds.aspx

switch-hitter 2011-07-26 11:39
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1057753)
Stop this nonsense, please. Nokias smartphones today are Symbian. Except from the N8 and the rather niche-ish E6, Nokia is not competitive against Android or iPhone. That is the truth, and it has nothing to do with Elop.
Symbian was the best selling smart phone OS in every single quarter ever right up until Elop announced he was killing it, then it plummets off the scale and you think that's coincidence. Oh yes, that sounds entirely feasible.

As for competing with the iPhone, apart from the N8 NOKIA's Symbian phones are not designed to compete with the iPhone (or Samsung Galaxy or HTC Desire), my unlocked 5800 XM cost < 40% of my O2 locked iPhone, (in fact the 5800 offers more functionality than the iPhone but that's another debate). Due to the minimum hardware requirements of WP7 this is a sector NOKIA will not be able to compete in anymore. Symbian is great for the mid-tier where NOKIA could compete with the likes of the single-tasking bada on functionality or Android toting Chinese mobiles on hardware quality.

It's the N9 that would have been competing in the high value market and many reviewers who tried one stated it was the most exciting device NOKIA had produced in years, but Elop's going to kill that too. The media buzz around the N9 was killed off within 48 hours when Elop deliberately leaked a video of himself demonstrating the N9 hardware but running WP7. Who cares? Samsung already makes one of those and nobody gives a 8ugg3r.

ericsson 2011-07-26 15:04
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1058521)
Symbian was the best selling smart phone OS in every single quarter ever right up until Elop announced he was killing it, then it plummets off the scale and you think that's coincidence. Oh yes, that sounds entirely feasible.

As for competing with the iPhone, apart from the N8 NOKIA's Symbian phones are not designed to compete with the iPhone (or Samsung Galaxy or HTC Desire), my unlocked 5800 XM cost < 40% of my O2 locked iPhone, (in fact the 5800 offers more functionality than the iPhone but that's another debate). Due to the minimum hardware requirements of WP7 this is a sector NOKIA will not be able to compete in anymore. Symbian is great for the mid-tier where NOKIA could compete with the likes of the single-tasking bada on functionality or Android toting Chinese mobiles on hardware quality.

It's the N9 that would have been competing in the high value market and many reviewers who tried one stated it was the most exciting device NOKIA had produced in years, but Elop's going to kill that too. The media buzz around the N9 was killed off within 48 hours when Elop deliberately leaked a video of himself demonstrating the N9 hardware but running WP7. Who cares? Samsung already makes one of those and nobody gives a 8ugg3r.
I'm getting tired of refuting all idiots here (seriously I am), but anyway. The numbers are very clear:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...s-smartpho.php
What you see is the number of phones sent out by Nokia. A negative effect regarding sales from stores and operators will take 6-8 weeks. The top is at Q4 2010, this means that with the 6-8 weeks of lag, the real top was September-October 2010. That is when it started going down hill. Nokia knew this of course, they observe every thing going on in the market. From that time on, they "only" sold N8. Right now it seems that sales are going fast down-hill, but it is actually flattened according to Nokia. The worst loss is over. Meanwhile Android is still growing, so in relative terms (market share) Nokia will lose more. What the N9 and WP will do ramains to be seen.

daperl 2011-07-26 15:08
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1058662)
I'm getting tired of refuting all idiots here (seriously I am).
If you're really serious, maybe you should take a break. Say, 18 months? Nah, let's make it 36; you deserve it.

hotnikkelz 2011-07-26 16:20
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1058312)
Doesn't compare. Zune in the end was just a music player. A smartphone is way more functional for obvious reasons.

danramos 2011-07-26 18:49
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotnikkelz (Post 1058710)
Doesn't compare. Zune in the end was just a music player. A smartphone is way more functional for obvious reasons.
You're right, but then isn't that all it took for Apple to claw its way back up from the brink of bankruptcy just after they put Steve Jobs back at the helm? It may have been "just a music player", but it was well executed by Apple with iPod, not well executed by Microsoft with Zune. I suspect Nokia is more the Microsoft with Zune these days. :P

ysss 2011-07-26 19:11
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1058804)
You're right, but then isn't that all it took for Apple to claw its way back up from the brink of bankruptcy just after they put Steve Jobs back at the helm? It may have been "just a music player", but it was well executed by Apple with iPod, not well executed by Microsoft with Zune. I suspect Nokia is more the Microsoft with Zune these days. :P
Yeah... but Steve Jobs didn't have to fight a Steve Jobs, to become who he is today.

I kid... I kid...

qwazix 2011-07-26 19:29
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1058662)
I'm getting tired of refuting all idiots here (seriously I am), but anyway. The numbers are very clear:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...s-smartpho.php
What you see is the number of phones sent out by Nokia. A negative effect regarding sales from stores and operators will take 6-8 weeks. The top is at Q4 2010, this means that with the 6-8 weeks of lag, the real top was September-October 2010. That is when it started going down hill. Nokia knew this of course, they observe every thing going on in the market. From that time on, they "only" sold N8. Right now it seems that sales are going fast down-hill, but it is actually flattened according to Nokia. The worst loss is over. Meanwhile Android is still growing, so in relative terms (market share) Nokia will lose more. What the N9 and WP will do ramains to be seen.
have you noticed that there is one point per quarter? that means that the sales of Q4 were record high and loss is seen first on Q1, which is 5 weeks pre WP and 7 weeks post. The slope is less steep because of the sales of the first 5 weeks. After feb11 sales crashed, and the real fall is seen in Q2. So the graph you quote for me enhances the opinion that elop killed the sales

mikecomputing 2011-07-26 19:42
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1058822)
have you noticed that there is one point per quarter? that means that the sales of Q4 were record high and loss is seen first on Q1, which is 5 weeks pre WP and 7 weeks post. The slope is less steep because of the sales of the first 5 weeks. After feb11 sales crashed, and the real fall is seen in Q2. So the graph you quote for me enhances the opinion that elop killed the sales
problem is todays MicroNokia board doesnt give a **** if they fail in Q3 too :( Q3 will also fail cause they stupid enought too "wait" release n9 until end of september. What the hell is wrong with the fuucking board!? are they totally blind or what!? Iphone soon coomming if they smart the release n9 right NOW!

but no I see only one reason to wait: that means first in q4 it will be better and when they give us the report in q1 2011 it may look it was "because wp was released in some countrys end of 2011" that way it :LOOKS like it is WP that "saves" Nokia even if N9 could have a chance to sell even better if it was release right now!

I am sure N9 is already ready for release but theyre waiting :(

but still.I cant see a better device for my needs but sick of waiting. I

gerbick 2011-07-26 21:14
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 1058811)
Yeah... but Steve Jobs didn't have to fight a Steve Jobs, to become who he is today.
He did have a Bill Gates to contend with though.

marxian 2011-07-26 21:28
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1058883)
He did have a Bill Gates to contend with though.
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/621...2622h27m39.png

Even further OT: I think John DiMaggio would have made a better CEO than Steve Ballmer. :)

hotnikkelz 2011-07-26 22:10
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Marxian...your'e the author of the cutetube app?

You're awesome, that is all.

qwazix 2011-07-27 00:13
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1058883)
He did have a Bill Gates to contend with though.
he carefully chose not to, lately...

jo21 2011-07-27 01:01
Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1058662)
I'm getting tired of refuting all idiots here (seriously I am), but anyway. The numbers are very clear:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...s-smartpho.php
What you see is the number of phones sent out by Nokia. A negative effect regarding sales from stores and operators will take 6-8 weeks. The top is at Q4 2010, this means that with the 6-8 weeks of lag, the real top was September-October 2010. That is when it started going down hill. Nokia knew this of course, they observe every thing going on in the market. From that time on, they "only" sold N8. Right now it seems that sales are going fast down-hill, but it is actually flattened according to Nokia. The worst loss is over. Meanwhile Android is still growing, so in relative terms (market share) Nokia will lose more. What the N9 and WP will do ramains to be seen.

thats Christmas sales... even android have it drops about that time.

only ones that didn't feel the effect was apple and samsung

Q1 are always smaller, than Q4 normally, but they eventually stabilize if u see graphic well, it goes down like jumping from a cliff in Q1. THATS feb 11th.

at that moment samsung,htc sales skyrocket

even motorola that was going slowe,r stabilize.


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