Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Just remember to make sure that parts are still available :D

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

You are too funny haha :D:D

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

YeAh, that part is important. That will make the product 20% happier and the backers 20% better.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Given that chen's project shares a lot of characteristics with the upcoming Android One, chances are Qualcomm won't shut down production of their 625 chipset.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Could give us a few info of things to come ?
What are you planning to add ?

Also, given that Jolla has formely announced their "Sailfish X" product, how do you plan to proceed ?
- Sell 2 separate editions of your Qwerty smartphone - one Android only and one a little bit more expensive including the Sailfish license ?
- Or have the license included on each device (it's only 60€ after all) and let the user decide what they want to install and switch at their leisure at any point of time in the future ?

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

So Chen, any news ?
Maybe even news on when we can get some news ?

Having the last message in a thread being from Dave for so long is a bit depressing...
http://www.wnd.com/files/2014/04/IRAN-NOOSE.jpg

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Relax. He has plenty to do with the keyboard project. Wait until he announce this project.

He will do that when he is ready I guess.

http://assets.atlasobscura.com/artic...2675/image.jpg

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Chen said in the Gemini thread...


"I apologise we are getting quiet recently - I want to make the Moto Keyboard Mod as good as I can, then I will focus on this successor. I only release the product I am happy with myself.

I am aiming for Mid-October that we can get all the Moto Keyboard business completed with R&D and I will make Lauta back to your hand. "

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Yes, I read that, but you know... too many weeks without anything and we're getting dangerously close to Neo900 territory.

Hope can only last so long...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Not even close. As soon as collection of your money begins it might be. Currently it's just fiction of your imagination. Consider it just as real as parallel universes or Higgs boson. You might think it's real but you can't see it. So you have to wait and see :D

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

It won't be. We are preparing the launch and promoting with Moto for the Keyboard Mod. Once it is launched we will have more exposure of Livermorium to the media. And having more audience for this device.

I will share more news as soon as I can.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Relax and give Chen a break. He is working on several projects. The Youyota tablet, Moto Mod keyboard, and Livermorium.

He will give us an update when the time allows him to.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Thank you! More precisely is Keyboard Mod + this Keybpard device. And helping Michael overcome difficulties with Youyota tab. :)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

A small suggestion for the battery connection for your smartphone project.
If possible could you consider a similar assembly, with double high quality pogo pins on + and - battery terminals ?

http://www.sympato.ch/~dryak/files/t39-battery-pogo.jpg


The prongs that smartphones such as the Jolla 1, Fairphone2, etc. use tend to bend, break, or (in my phone's case) break their springs quite easily. This leads to spurious reboots whenever a bad contact causes a transient power loss.

Some older phone (like all Ericssons starting from the T28, like the pictured T39) tended to use high quality spring-loaded pogo pins instead (like those that the Jolla 1 uses for extensions, or like the Fairphone2 uses for bus connection between its modules),
and used 2 of them for battery terminals (this increases the contact area, and makes also the connection more secure).
In the photo's case, despite a decade in total of abuse, the pogo ping have held for the whole lifetime of the device (actually, as you can see, the battery backcover retension gave up first).

Another mechanism that avoids damage to the smartphone is the most commonly used with Laptop battery (I've also seen it on my HP Pre3) :
the device has no moving parts. Instead it only has solid straight metal bars. The moving parts are inside the battery : instead of flat contacts, it has clamps that catch the metal bars.

This moves breakable elements away from the device, but just transfers the problem to the battery making it a bit more expensive to produce.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Man, what do you do with your pongs? never happend to me during the last 5 years. god suggestion though !

I have the money ready to back this project. just need a campaign(and a refund if sail is included) and I am teady to go. I might spend it on HTC Folder if it could spot a onscreen qwerty on second screen.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

The downside is that that the more custom the battery is, the harder it is to get replacement in case it's not producted anymore. Just check this topic.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Yes, that's why my first suggestion is to still use regular flat contacts on the battery, but use a little bit more sturdy and better contacts on the phone (high quality spring pogo-pins) as Ericsson did in the picture.

(I only gave the laptop-style bars and clamps as a second less likely example for the reason you mention : too custom in the smartphone world. HP Pre3 is the only one using such a thing)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

BTW:
Handling a hot soldering iron that close to a battery is *really* dangerous.

It would be much safer to order a specific one on internet, even if you need to import it from India.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Would gluing to the contacts with conductive glue make it better? The problem is that you can't be sure for how long that specific one is going to be available for order, even from India.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

The problem is, I do not know how conductive the "conductive" glues are. Do they introduce a few mΩ resistance? Is it a few, a few 10s or a few 100s? Is it enough to cause a noticeable voltage drop and hence problems at higher currents?

I personally would solder. The "battery" contacts are not actually directly contacting the battery, there is a tiny circuit board between the battery and the terminals. But I would be extremely careful not to overheat the board while soldering, as even the transferred heat might be enough to permanently damage the battery (trust me, I know - and I have been soldering things for 30 years :)). For the less experienced, a glue is a less risky solution.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I agree, it might add too much resistance, and either over heat, or the battery or phone will plain refuse to work due to low voltage

(It's the one which cares about battery security - like shutting down when over charging, voltage under safety point - and talks to the phone over I2C to give battery health information (all the data you can see in CSD)

It might not be *directly* in contact with the battery, but still, they are dangerously close to the lithium.
One wrong movement with the soldering iron or on badly landing drop of solder and you're in for a tiny firework.

The best would be to ask a friend with lots of experience and a steady hand.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

The R&D of Keyboard Mod will finish in 10 days. I will be back to China for various things but this will be one of the most important subject. Hopefully when the Keyboard Mod ships I will prepare some hand cast samples of this unit. We are making progresses. (With the new robust 8-string sliding part, also off-set keypad etc.) Will resume updating in coming weeks.

I personally got more excited with the going of this device, and technically speaking (OS aside) it's somehow much easier than Moto Mods platform.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

No worries. Take your time. Enjoy China.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Yay ! Looking forward to more news !

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Is this project still in the pipe after Motorola mod?

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

That's such a devilish comment, even coming from you !
It's so upside down in your head :rolleyes:

(congrats to whomever gets that one)


On a more serious note, Chen seems to be working on the KB mod, as can be seen in the IGG comments.

Your guess about when the KB mod will be done with and Chen ready to go full throttle on our QWERTY hopeful bliss is as bad as mine :cool:

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

How is that? I think its a fair question Since I never take this project for granted, and neither should you.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

@British Thank you. The last step always be the most difficult. ;)

@All: I have a question: Regarding Software and binary support for Linux (Let's put performance aside), Is MTK better than Qualcomm? I heard MTK has a better support for Linux than Qualcomm, but I couldn't find evidence supporting it...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Don't worry, you took it too seriously and didn't get the subtleties. It's OK.
To be fair, that was a bit far-fetched :D

So: post #666, Dave999, upside down... need I say more ? :rolleyes:

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

The number of the beast. Don’t tell me you are Bruce Dickinson?

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

just the fact that every sailfish phone so far was on qualcomm should tell you something. Performance aside, but MTK sucks in so many ways even for huuuuge vendors.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I NEVER heard something good about MTK regarding drivers, software or device support. However, this is usually a problem of Android and I don't know how the situation is with a real Linux.

But yeah, everything I ever heard about MTK was that the driver support sucks.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Please elaborate? I'd like to understand why :)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Not sure where did that come from, maybe from MediaTek-based Chromebooks which actually run Linux with almost mainline kernel, but have a bit different hardware from phones.

From SailfishOS perspective, Qualcomm is just more explored, with own quirks and so on. libhybris can work with MediaTek as well (Ubuntu phones and tablet), so I think you can choose chipset based on availability/price.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

just look at the mess called Android TV. And all of them are based on MTK SoC. When I did get my TV it was lollypop on it. With a bunch of bugs and missing prommised/marketed features. A year and a half later MM came and break even more of those "smart" functionalities. I can't write on disks any more, USB disks plugged in TV gets remounted with different ID so they are invisible to the apps, storage formated as internal dissapear. They dont use standard android APIs so passthrough is broken, 4k youtube is a mess...... Few updates later ATV1 platform is still on MM with all the bugs thet were there with first MM based FW. Meanwhile ATV2 platform did recive nougat update but the same things are broken there also. Happy reading https://github.com/CiNcH83/sony_atv/...ssue+is%3Aopen
So if they can't get their shite together on a 1000+€ devices with just two SoCs in use across all manufacturers then what can you expect from phones. The first thing I look in the phone is not to be based on mediacrap SoC.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Please do not consider anything but Qualcomm SoCs:

• While Mer & libhybris (being the base of SailfishOS) theoretically support MediaTek SoCs too, all ARM-based devices running SailfishOS well (e.g. the officialy supported ones) use Qualcomm SoCs.
• Qualcomm has a bit of an Open Source strategy (currently mostly just covering their Adreno GPUs, i.e. handing out technical documentation under NDA to FOSS developers), while MediaTek has nothing.
• MediaTek uses Mali- (by ARM) or PowerVR-GPUs, which both have no Open Source driver development at all (the Lima initiative stalled years ago, right after its start).
• Qualcomm is technologically more advanced (utilised semiconductor process nodes etc.), resulting in better performance and runtime (i.e. using less power).
• When building a niche product, IMO one should try to use components as mainstream as possible; otherwise that becomes even harder.

I can think of a couple other more minor points, but I think I covered the most important ones above.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Okay Thanks... I asked the question for the hope of having native GNU/Lunix without Libhybris. But if not possible I will stick with Qualcomm...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

That would only be possible with the i.MX6 or i.MX8 that Purism has chosen for its future phone. And that requires separate modem. Native Linux on ARM outside of the embedded space is hard mostly because of missing GPU support in the kernel (of course there are problems with various sensors as well).
Articles explaining some of these problems:
https://lwn.net/Articles/733837/
https://lwn.net/Articles/733463/

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Please forget about "having native GNU/Lunix" as a core goal: This is what Purism is trying to achieve with 2 Million Dollars, two years time, awkward hardware etc.

And a MediaTek SoC will not get you closer to this goal, rather the opposite.

You once stated that you are going to alter an existing design based on a Qualcomm SoC, which is absolutely reasonable.
If you have a choice, picking a design with a Snapdragon 650 (as in the Xperia X) or at least one with a Snapdragon 65x will significantly raise the probability of proper SailfishOS support.

As we already discussed here, a plain GNU/Linux without touch-capable applications is pretty much useless on a smartphone (and one cannot use the internal modem for calls and internet access, currently).

Please stay away from the idea of providing any software adaptations beyond boot-loader and maybe kernel, while trying to minimise the latter (kernel adaptations) as much as possible.
Do estimate these software efforts to be larger than the hardware redesign (people usually underestimate this by at least a magnitude, i.e. more than factor 10)!