maemo.org - Talk - The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

well, maybe I need to add my 2 cents to this threat as well:
The N9 is IMHO the best phone ever done with open source. Yes, it does have "only" virtual key boards (and can have several of them installed at the same time and you can just swipe from one to the other language plus Swype). Yes, it's main orientation is portrait (and landscape is supported when it matters such as camera, messaging, email, browser...). Yes, the browser is "only" superb in HTML5 (but it is the first time you'll find webkit2 on board in open device).

I'm sure you will find all the things we built in for those that love open source including the option to install apps from other sources than the official store.

Peter,

to pick up on my previous post, will it be possible to install a "terminal" bash like application?
only could look at the quick swipes but couldn't see an [$_] icon...

or will we need to fall back to a jailbreak like solution (SSH & all that crap)? :eek:

tkatchev

2011-06-21 07:44

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Utterly ridiculous.

If you want an iPhone, go and buy it.

An also-ran iPhone clone from Nokia is a giant DO NOT WANT.

As far as I can see, there is absolutely nothing in the N9 that hasn't been done by the iPhone better, cheaper and earlier.

Metsämies

2011-06-21 07:49

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Multitasking? Good gsm/3g-radio? Ovi Maps?

X-terminal?

mece	2011-06-21 07:52

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

It has a full terminal (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=6725), it has OMAP3630 1Ghz, 1Mb ram, 512Mb nand.
Full details are here now: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devic...cations/N9-00/

zonk0r

2011-06-21 07:57

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

I'm most puzzled where this lack of Flash player came from though, wasn't the N900 the first device to support full Flash? what happened to the love? <3

also - does anyone know, in the browser, what happens with swiping? i liked my boomarks coming from the side etc. .. does this still happen?

slightly baffled by people on here bigging up specific haptik feedback screen as well? did the proto's actually have this? If so, then I will wait for 2.0.. graphene coating? i liked the idea of spilling my beans on it and it cleaned itself.. oh well..

on the plus side, device is very attractive - but adobe flash, not a youtube player.. is a deal breaker for me.. full desktop experience is a must!

Kozzi

2011-06-21 08:08

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

No dualcore : no problem this is no android
no adobe flash: no problem as long as flash videos can somehow be sent to the media player.
no 12mp: no need
no hdmi: ......
FFFFFFFFFF......

seriously, what's the point of Dolby Digital Plus, 720p playback and recording if you play them using 3.5" jack.

PS: oh btw took me 2.5 hrs to get the last post, you guys should slow down with posting :(

Mandibela

2011-06-21 08:08

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1034230)

Like i said already it's most likely 512mb where rest is swap. On OMAP3430/N900 it was 256mb and rest was swap.

Mass Storage Memory
16 GB[1]
ROM Memory
512 MB
RAM Memory
1 GB
Notes
1 16 or 64GB depending on the variant

http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devic...cations/N9-00/

ishurmer

2011-06-21 08:10

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandibela (Post 1034261)

Mass Storage Memory
16 GB[1]
ROM Memory
512 MB
RAM Memory
1 GB
Notes
1 16 or 64GB depending on the variant

http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devic...cations/N9-00/

Yes, it's worth noting that if you compare to the N900 on that page, the N900 comes up as 256MB RAM with 768 ROM Memory. Perhaps it truly does have 1GB RAM?

Mandibela

2011-06-21 08:10

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozzi (Post 1034260)

DLNA? Hopefully... Cables are so nineties :D

Mandibela

2011-06-21 08:12

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishurmer (Post 1034264)

Yes, it's worth noting that if you compare to the N900 on that page, the N900 comes up as 256MB RAM with 768 ROM Memory. Perhaps it truly does have 1GB RAM?

That what I was thinking. It would make sense, more RAM = more speed in everyday, heavy multitasking use. Closing apps is also more hidden than on the N900.

marrat

2011-06-21 08:12

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Damn... I need a new car radio... without FM transmitter I'm screwed else...

zymo	2011-06-21 08:14

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandibela (Post 1034266)

DLNA? Hopefully... Cables are so nineties :D

dlna not mentioned in spec list.

kojacker

2011-06-21 08:17

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

It's still a bit early to pass judgement. but when did that stop any of us? :D

I'm as keen as anyone to get my hands on the first Nokia MeeGo/MeeGo compatible handset as that's a direction I want to continue to develop in. That there has been no MeeGo handset stalled my interest in the OS, so it's a sight for sore eyes to see the N9 officially announced :) (I'm not inc the N900 or the excellent MeeGo DE/CE project ofcourse). The lack of a hardware keyboard sounds like it might be difficult in regards to developing on the device, as I'm someone who likes to open up Xterm, launch leafpad, and type a few lines in and test away on the device. Ofcourse no Xterm would be even worse though :p And Im not convinced yet about the whole 'swipe' UI, but im open to it as so many people are raving about it..

However I'm liking the blue color, i think I need me one of those ;) The extra RAM is going to make a huge different to those of us who suffered with the laggy N900. 8mpx is plenty for a mobile device, quite frankly I'd be happy with 5 and updated camera software and image processing. And I'd like to support all the guys at Nokia who still believe in MeeGo by putting a +1 in the sales tally. I already have a Samsung GS2 for my everyday phone, so i don't need something I can't develop on - I'll give the N9 some serious thought after a hands on.

All this is assuming, ofcourse, that it's released in the UK market...

On the other hand we expect there to be a developer's device but there's no word yet on how to be eligible for one. It is expected to have a hardware keyboard but is apparently missing NFC - one of the areas I research into is wireless technoologies and NFC would be useful. But it's still not announced, nor do we know how to get one - hopefuly it'll be the same as the N900 where folks over a certain amount of forum karma got a discount - so it's impossible to compare until we know more.

If QWidget is gone I'll need to port a lot of my earlier projects to QML. But it seems that either device is still a compromise to develop on, I miss the days of the N95 when Nokia threw everything and the kitchen sink into their smartphones :)

geohsia

2011-06-21 08:20

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

f/2.2 camera is great! Can't wait to see FCam ported onto Harmattan.

Why A-GPS though? Ugh. I tag my photos with GPS and if I get this phone I won't be able to tag photos in countries where I do not have a local SIM card which is sometimes the case. Ugh.

Apparently they're saving the good stuff for the Mango.

Boemien

2011-06-21 08:20

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

You Guys don't worry, Preenv will be available for this phone! mouhahahahahaha!!

tkatchev

2011-06-21 08:20

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Please note -- the N9 is not MeeGo-compliant!!

If you want to buy the N9 as a MeeGo development device, please don't.

The N9 runs a 'slightly MeeGo-compatible Harmattan', i.e., another one-device Nokia OS to be abandonded in a year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kojacker (Post 1034277)

Kozzi

2011-06-21 08:21

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandibela (Post 1034266)

DLNA? Hopefully... Cables are so nineties :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by zymo (Post 1034273)

dlna not mentioned in spec list.

neither on N8, C7, ... S^3 phones, but the PlayTo application (Qt) at Nokia Betalabs allow them to act as a server or client with quite simple ui to use too.

link: http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/nokia-play-to

but HDMI.. :(

Mandibela

2011-06-21 08:23

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by zymo (Post 1034273)

dlna not mentioned in spec list.

So? Spec lists are never complete...

Ok, maybe we'll see. Also, Nokia could be preparing NFC-enabled media receivers for video also, as they have the Nokia Wireless Music Receiver (MD-310).

morfeas

2011-06-21 08:23

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

no hw keyboard = no buy for me :( ....

chase15

2011-06-21 08:24

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

1. iPhone 4 gpu PowerVR SGX 535 ---- N9 PowerVR SGX 530
2. iPhone 4 cam 5mp ----- N9 8mp carlzeiss wide angle lens
3. iPhone 4 Screen 3.5 IPS LCD ----- N9 3.9 AMOLED
4. iPhone 4 wifi b/g/n --------- N9 a/b/g/n
5. iPhone 4 NFC = No ------------- N9 Yes
6. iPhone 4 AV = No --------------N9 Yes
7. iPhone 4 Ram 512MB ---------- N9 1GB

law138

2011-06-21 08:30

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Will a regular t-mobile or att sim fit in this phone or is it like the iphone with a different size sim that will have to be cut ? If so this is bad cause i will no longer be able to switch phones.

mece	2011-06-21 08:30

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by geohsia (Post 1034282)

A-GPS doesn't mean just GPS wouldn't work. It's just a faster way of getting a lock. GPS should work without data just fine. Takes a while to lock though.

mrojas

2011-06-21 08:31

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

I would be incredibly grateful if someone confirms there will be some way for the N9 to have HDMI, through some kind of accesory or w/ever. Same with USB OTG. (You know, those features the much derided N8 and E7 have...)

ajalkane

2011-06-21 08:32

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

This will be my next phone. No doubt about that.

I don't quite understand the complaints about the CPU. If everything works smooth why need more power? It'd just drain battery more. Maybe I just don't get it. For me the amount of memory seems more important, and N9 has that covered.

And for the lack of homescreen... Pretty sure some developer who is aching for that feature will create a replacement :).

All in all, the UI looks great. It is open source and not locking you in a walled garden. The features and hardware seem good. I'm all in and can't wait to have it.

zlatokosi

2011-06-21 08:35

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase15 (Post 1034290)

You do realize you are comparing a one year old phone to an unreleased Nokia 2011 phone (they say Q3...)?

geohsia

2011-06-21 08:36

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by mece (Post 1034299)

A-GPS doesn't mean just GPS wouldn't work. It's just a faster way of getting a lock. GPS should work without data just fine. Takes a while to lock though.

A-GPS usually means cell-tower only. The N900 has GPS and uses A-GPS to get a faster lock.

From the specs the N9 ONLY has A-GPS. If I don't have a local SIM card (which means I can not talk to local towers) I don't know how A-GPS would work.

zymo	2011-06-21 08:42

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by geohsia (Post 1034304)

GPS and navigation
Integrated GPS, A-GPS receivers

zehjotkah

2011-06-21 08:44

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by geohsia (Post 1034304)

A-GPS means "Assisted GPS"
GPS with assistance from WiFi or Cell-Towers or GPS-Servers.
A-GPS works as well without data connection (tracking Cell-Towers).
N9 does have a GPS chip (no data connection needed) with assistance as explained before.

mrojas

2011-06-21 08:45

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanishou (Post 1034103)

Some things I can probably say now:

- Yes, this is really more like an open, smarter iPhone than a N900 successor. Take it or leave it. :) But please don't assume that everyone on this site has the same preferences. There are many people here who value Maemo's openness, the Linux roots, or just it's overall coolness, but still want a phone that simply does the job very well without being specifically targeted towards geeks and hackers. Of course you'll still be able to hack it to your heart's content.

- Why MeeGo? Simple, this phone couldn't have been done with WP7 at this point! That is the strength of MeeGo, being able to do something new and somewhat different like this. Maybe its ideas will be incorporated into WP7 devices in the future (I hope so), but I don't expect that to be a quick process.

Sure, you won't have hundreds of thousands of apps for the N9 anytime soon, but not everyone needs that either. For those who don't, or who can live with a reasonable number of quality apps, the N9 out of the box provides an excellent, unique experience that _no_ other phone can deliver right now. It may also well be the only one of its kind. Ever.

- This phone is not about the specs. Having the fastest CPU is really not all that relevant in the grand scheme of things. With the N9, the star is not the hardware or the software alone, the star is the team. It is little details, which define the overall experience. For example, the fairly large bezel was mentioned a few times. This bezel is completely smooth curved glass, which provides the necessary surface to conveniently swipe from the outside of the screen. Without the swipe gesture, the bezel would just be wasted space, with the swipe gesture it becomes an integral part of the experience. That is one little example of how everything fits together, and you really can't judge the N9 as a sum of its parts.

- The N9 is much higher profile than the N900 ever was in Nokia, and even the N900 wasn't that horrible to live with overall now, was it? You can be certain that the N9 will receive more attention (both from Nokia, and the developer community), whether there will ever be a successor or not. If that is good enough for you or you'd rather put up with a lesser device with plenty of apps, that is up to you.

Thanks for this. As I wrote elsewhere, I don't care about sheepleware (i.e. Facebook, Twitter, etc), or ecosystems (in fact, I don't want to be dragged into one), so a standalone device with a capable browser, powerful multi-tasking and flle system access works for me.

Now, about that HDMI...

zymo	2011-06-21 08:46

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

The UI seems very nice, but it’s a real pity the n9 doesn’t support usb host mode.

tkatchev

2011-06-21 08:46

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Uh, stop right here.

What makes you think it's 'open source' and 'not locking you in'??

I'm almost entirely sure that the UI will be closed-source.

As for the 'walled garden' part, that remains to be seen. Is there a community OBS/repo?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajalkane (Post 1034301)

All in all, the UI looks great. It is open source and not locking you in a walled garden. The features and hardware seem good. I'm all in and can't wait to have it.

Rauha

2011-06-21 08:49

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by geohsia (Post 1034304)

A-GPS= regular GPS + cell tower triangulation.

There is no way to have A-GPS only. All A-GPS hardware can do basic GPS as well. It's just slower to get the initial lock in. You are propably confusing this with phones that require data connection because they don't have GPS mapping data stored on the phone, and require data connection for constant map streaming.

pabs3

2011-06-21 08:50

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkatchev (Post 1034315)

What makes you think it's 'open source' and 'not locking you in'??

I'm almost entirely sure that the UI will be closed-source.

The PowerVR drivers will definitely not be open source either.

Jedibeeftrix

2011-06-21 08:52

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkatchev (Post 1034315)

As for the 'walled garden' part, that remains to be seen. Is there a community OBS/repo?

this is a question i have been asking for a long time; will the n9 use project bretzn?

I want an answer.

kanishou

2011-06-21 08:53

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkatchev (Post 1034315)

Uh, stop right here.

What makes you think it's 'open source' and 'not locking you in'??

I'm almost entirely sure that the UI will be closed-source.

Not at all, libmeegotouch (and presumably qt-components) are open source. I expect the theme to remain proprietary (images + a small amount of readable CSS).

Frappacino

2011-06-21 08:54

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

To all

http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3598

Qqil provides some answers there and below

Questions asked in my blog:

Are there any details of how open / hacker-friendly it is? A bit of Googling hasn’t brought anything up. E.g:

> can I open a terminal, wget an unsigned package file and install it?

I haven't tried, but you can do it this way if you have all the pieces: terminal app (it's open source and maintained) and wget (not sure if it comes with Busybox out of the idem). I'm installing packages directly from the browser, by clicking .deb links. Very convenient. This is not the behavior by default but you can enable it through the settings UI.

> can I submit a bug report or patch that may get into a firmware update?

Yes, but give us a bit of extra time to post the URL.

> are any of the N9′s applications open source?

The default approach is to have a Nokia proprietary UX layer including the applications.

> can I run Python / PHP in the terminal?

If someone ports the libraries, yes.

> are standard bash/busybox/GNU tools available?

Busybox 3:1.19-7+0m6

Right, so Busybox and bash appear as green (upgraded compared from Fremantle) while wget is blue (available in Harmattan, was not there in Fremantle).

The sources are available at http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/

The community contributions are expected to be delivered through apps.meego.com and the related MeeGo community OBS, both having a MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan target. More at http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps

Users need to install the Terminal app. Installing packages and their repositories is trivial through the browser, though.

The open/closed approach continues being open platform (maybe with exceptions) and closed UX. If there is a components that appears closed and you want to see open RIGHT NOW is the best time to start discussing. The best argumentation is that the MeeGo project is interested in integrate that functionality, as it has been the case for over a year now.

About how the meego.com and nokia.com repos will coexist: as you can see them already now? MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan uses its own infrastructure (just like all vendors are expected to have their own infra, even if they are 100% MeeGo compliant). The community apps can have a common public interface thanks to Community OBS and apps.meego.com cleverness.

geohsia

2011-06-21 08:54

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by zymo (Post 1034308)

GPS and navigation
Integrated GPS, A-GPS receivers

I wish they were more clear:

http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devic...cations/N9-00/

I prefer the way the Maemo / N900 site : http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/

Integrated GPS, Assisted-GPS, and Cell-based receivers

Less ambiguous if you ask me.

kanishou

2011-06-21 08:55

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by law138 (Post 1034226)

The last time i saw you on the forum was when the n900 was coming out lol. I need to know do you think the web browser on the n9 is better then the the one on the n900 also do you think there will be a way to download flash in the the browser from the nokia marketplace or any other possible way?

Browsing is simplistic but super-smooth and enjoyable, microb looks really slow and cumbersome in comparison. Expect third party browsers for feature junkies. I bet a certain long-eared mammal will make an appearance.

Lack of Flash of course can be limiting, but whenever HTML5 video is supported, the experience is 500% better. No battery sucking, senseless Flash ads and gimmicks is a bonus... Not saying that Flash support is not generally a good thing, but it's also always a mess on mobile phones (I'm saying this as a part-time Flash game developer).

kanishou

2011-06-21 08:56

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1034232)

Of course you can install a terminal, and there will be the usual suspects (bash, vi, etc. Don't quote me on the specifics but it's a Linux environment alright).

kanishou

2011-06-21 08:57

Re: The EPIC N9 anticipation thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkatchev (Post 1034235)

Ah, okay. Let's see.

- "Jailbreak" is a disclaimer away, rather than a hack away.

- A beautifully solid piece of hardware.

- No front-facing buttons, intuitive swipe UI.

- Tight integration of a large number of social services into contacts, dialer, global presence, and so on.

- True multi-tasking with excellent UI for it.

- Better camera.

- Call quality / no interrupted signal etc.

- A great notifications system (iOS is adding something similar now, but neither better, nor cheaper, nor earlier).

- NFC

The list could go on, but I think your claim has been sufficiently refuted. The duel between the iPhone and the N9 will be a worthy one. N9 is lacking the apps (and possibly future), but is clearly superior in many other regards.

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