Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

An anecdote does not a business save.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Its a great stock to buy. It can only go up with WP8 and their growing ecosystem. I gave my daughter N9, after she lost her iphone. She returned it in 2 hours, saying that word recognition sucks, typing sucks, and its nowhere as responsive and fluid as iphone. So, I gave her Lumia 800 and so a disappointing look on her face that it was not an iphone. HOWEVER, 24 hours later, she loves it for fluidity and ease of use. I am convinced that WP8 will succeed and it will help NOK. This is how fortunes are made. Yes its a risk, but no risk, no gain

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

True, but a handful of boozed out geeks does not a business sink.

I really don't know how to explain this so you understand, but the thing is, the majority of people investing on the stock market are the cautious kind. They invest lots and lots of money, spread out the risk and creates investments for their customers that has only slightly higher risk than the bank, but also only slightly higher gain. Then there are traders that buy and sell and try to manipulate as best as they can to make a profit. And of course there are private people with more or less success.

There are other type of investors accepting much higher risk, injecting money into businesses directly. They can roughly be divided in two groups. One is purely profit driven. They pump up a company so it can (hopefully) be sold at huge profit after a few years. The other group of investors are involved in the industry, the details. They are genuinely interested in creating industries. Typically they are successful entrepreneurs themselves.

It's the last mentioned kind of investor that makes the world rotate. All the others are just bean counters. What makes them tick is to succeed in what they have set out to do, whatever it is, money is just a tool, and the profit is just icing on the cake. That's the kind of investors that owns the majority of Nokia. They may of course fail, because the risk is high, but they wont let fluctuations on the bloody stock market influence what they are doing.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It does indicate the viability, consumer confidence and desirability of a company quickly for the average consumer. Simply stated, a falling stock price means that the folks should double take, research further. A lot of reasons for falling prices, but Nokia has a 5+ year of decisions and difficulties that have driven the price to where it's at now.

And it's "bozos". I actually like booze, so I'm somewhat offended ;)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes, I agree, it indicates the viability of a company, but also the future perceived (by the byers/sellers) potential of the company. Such perceived potential tends to be much exaggerated both ways. The viability of Nokia right now is not good, but IMO much better than the stock price indicate. Nokia has shown a remarkable ability to change and stay alive, most other companies would have been gone going through what Nokia has been going through. This shows a commitment by the main share holders that is way above average, but also shows that they genuinely believe Nokia will make it.

PureView on WP8 will show if they are dead or not. I know lots and lots of people are waiting to get WP until WP8 comes, and lots and lots are waiting for PureView until it comes on a WP8. My main concern is that Nokia will do something stupid like launching a Lumia PureView with 21 MP instead of 41, or some similar stupidity in old Nokia fashion (too little RAM, one core instead of two, no bt, no FM, too small battery...). What they need is a flagship that is untouchable for a couple of years.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Never thought I'd say this but you are as clueless as Lumiaman. Boozed out geeks? You think it's boozed out geeks not buying Nokia phones? If anything it's a bunch of not very sober geeks keeping Nokia alive by buying them.

I don't think you understand a public company at all.
Can I ask who these investors are, where their money is going and how exactly they are financing Nokia? There has been no leveraged buyout.

If these special investors exist then why are there factory closures, sales office closures and mass layoffs? Do you honestly believe Nokia wanted this to happen if it had the financial backing needed to keep them running? It's very naive and frankly stupid to think that the "bean counters" do not matter.

Anyway, as predicted last week, stock decrease in the run up to the earnings report. A buyout is a possibility but I'm not sure who would want the baggage other than MS (it's their baggage, a type of third party poison pill), so it may not happen at all.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Stating the obvious as usual I see, why else would those who are still investing invest in it if they believed otherwise? Whether they are right to do so is yet to be seen. Banking on WP8 is a fools game, a lot of people said the same thing about Nokia going WP7.5 last year and would not take the sound advice given to them, that it will not boost Nokia sales. Those people are eating crow somewhere.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Will WP8 be able to handle the Pureview camera? We don't know and right now Pureview on WP8 is just speculation. Time is also of essence. Now that Nokia's development teams have been gutted how long will it take for Nokia to put Pureview on WP8 even if it can be done? Even if Nokia does eventually release the Pureview on WP8 how much mass appeal does a giant megapixel camera have for general users? So the notion that a Pureview WP8 phone will save Nokia is grabbing at straws and the straws are illusory at the moment.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

As I said, explaining this for bozos is hard. The main investors can do whatever they like, except altering the distribution of shares.

You have to stop thinking stocks, and start thinking industry. The stock market is irrelevant for Nokia, it is of no use to them. There is no fresh cash there. The only fresh cash is directly from the share holders, but as I said, that will not happen untill Nokia has shrunk down to a size that is natural for the new company. They are still too large.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Sorry, but the title of the thread is "Let's talk Nokia stock!" not "Let's talk mobile industry." However, if you want to go that route--how can anyone maintain the confidence needed to continue to invest in a company that Osborns their current products (thereby IMMEDIATELY ruining their value and integrity to consumers) and that hires on a new senior executive away from a competing company--and worse, immediately turns around to create a dependency on his former employer at the new company he's been hired into. Let's talk industry about hitching up to the worst performing platform and giving all the appearance of a confidence game to investors that it will totally turn around--even while all the signals indicate a failing direction.

It's one thing for a new company to gain investors--they are new. Nokia doesn't have the advantage of being new to attract investors once it gets to the size of a small company. Inertia would dictate that a rapidly shrinking company will either collapse under its own gravity and force, or else a miracle has to happen (ala Steve Jobs, the returning founder, for Apple). While Elop is in charge, it's still much like Gil Amelio at the helm all over again. Will Nokia pull a Steve Jobs or will they continue to "keep the faith" with the current Chief Executive Loser?