maemo.org - Talk - Sick of all the closing threads

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Re: Sick of all the closing threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 712838)

True story (From my point of view): A few months ago I wound up in a verbal sparing match with someone here. This person had very little positive to say about the N900, commented that he didn't have one, and was unlikely to get one. He also said a few things that (IMO) were out of date and/or misleading about the N900. (Like it lacked MMS support when there was clearly a community app to handle it.) The posts I saw from this user (for about 2 weeks) were plentiful and almost all negative. Based on that, I mistakenly pegged him as a troll, and started treating him like one. That person was Gerbick, who is a long term community member.

The problem here was multi-faceted. I was somewhat new, and hadn't noticed the post/thank counters (also in small grey font). I also have a penchant for jumping into things full bore, and probably mistook some of what was legitimate disappointment in the N900 line to be hostility toward the platform and community. But another factor (again IMO) was that he expected (and in one post demanded) that people respect his opinion and not challenge it in the forum with points that countered it, especially if one was a "noob". (The phrase STFU was used... :rolleyes: ) Also there was a general attitude of "I know better because I've been here longer", that wasn't exactly welcoming.

We settled our "differences" without it getting too terribly ugly (neither of us were moderated or caused a thread closure). And of late have actually started to notice that in many cases we align in some respects (this topic being a prime example).

This happens repeatedly. I've seen it and experienced it several times. People jump to conclusions about another person, and won't discuss substantively. Then they later realize he wasn't a troll - just had a negative opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 712838)

This forum is not what it was a year ago (or even 5 months ago). The N900 has been a game changer in many respects, probably more than was expected. The N900 members now probably outnumber the older members by a rather high ratio (I smell a poll wanting to be taken). But the forum as a whole has not adapted to support the influx of new people. Part of the frustration happening here is because the solution the community has used for the past several years has not scaled well. That needs to be acknowledged and address, and I think that's being addressed here/now.

Not feeding trolls works on small forums with low activity, or where it's clear that the forum is not affiliated with the manufacturer. This forum no longer qualifies for either condition. The rules have changed, like it or not. The question isn't should we adjust, it's how do we adjust. And yes, I also vote +1 for a separate area to move such threads or sub-segments to, in a hope to quell the signal/noise level.

The influx of new people was expected. Suggestions were made but nothing was implemented, including putting rants in a separate sub-forum and keeping them from active topics. While such action would not hurt and would help a little, I think there are problems that go much deeper. People are getting battle weary. I have empathy for Texrat and others who spend much time to try to manage things, but I can see that others have legitimate concerns not being addressed and can't raise them without personalities or personal histories getting in the way.

I think more strict moderation without rules of conduct will not help and will only serve to create more hurt feelings and personal disagreements.

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinbait (Post 712181)

QUOTE
This is all just my opinion, however I believe some of what goes on here is perpetuated by the people who are vigilantly trying to stop it.

There has to be a better way......

"There has to be a better way" now repeat that n+1 times and let´s change how people behave. Let´s educate and show people how to confront ranting in more productive way...let´s...or maybe not. People do not listen or do you really think that this place differs somehow from other forums now days? It´s not Nokia supporting this place it´s just nature of law what happens here. More people because of N900 and backslash of it.

I agree with you that there should be some kind of rules and thread where people can talk about them. Of course rules are going to be quite vague and how they are executed depends on moderator.

I think that after critical amount of user it´s pure utopia to think that there is way going back. Only way could be to reinvent whole talk.maemo.org and use something like what they have in stack overflow. But i think that would be just waste of current resources. It seems like moderators and site admins are currently doing best what they can and still there is so much to do around here that it´s just in it´s starting point.

I would say that you are dreamer and definitely not the only one and i wish that your dream comes true when there is communication platform that mimics IRL conversation as much as possible. Giving to it´s users e.g. to collectively kick user away or give some user troll notation after nick name or to vote messages hidden. Netiquette is just nice words that in the end of day mean nothing to some people.

ps.
What do you think wikipedia would look like if there would be totally free speech and total freedom to edit pages? And what do you think about spam or actually what is spam?

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 712929)

What this community needs is a complete overhaul of pointless threads and delete the lot !.
Moderating is becoming a nightmare dealing with the complaints, troll's - whiners etc etc and we can only put the blame to Nokia for releasing in the way they did along with all the media the so called FLAGSHIP N900 which has turned out to be a downfall in many respects for Nokia and this being the true Meamo N900 forum that is splattered all over every search engine bringing everyone to it !.
OK we all know the N900 has it's pitfalls BUT please consider at least that this very forum is the saviour of the device as it has got many developers working hard to rectify the shortfalls from Nokia.
Everyone now knows the shortfalls and if you get rid of the senceless threads you will end up with the answers to almost every problem the N900 has thanks to the members of this forum.
After owning the N900 since early february and after literally stripping it down looking at schematics and the actuall hardware i can tell you one thing here that the device has endless limits to play and modify and i know in my own mind that all the current missing features can be implemented along with the only real fault the USB port having a very simple fix to make it solid on the pcb.
For all the pitfalls of the N900 if everyone just wait's a few month you will see a device that can do almost anything that a pc is capable of and as a phone has the capabilities of anything on the market for a very long time to come.
My opinion for what it is worth is to close and delete any thread that even hints of arguments and agression immediatly it appears leaving the forum for what it should be used for ....PROGRESSION.
Little do you lot realise that the N900 will actually turn out to be a FLAGSHIP simply because it has endless capabilities and all everyone needs here is a little bit of time for people with the knowledge to do what Nokia should be doing and are doing for free !!! remember that before criticizing !!!.
Reggie please look at the possibility of deleting every single useless thread so that we can search a lot easier through here and find the answers we need for the device we have... time to have a clearout.

Reading something like this itches me..

For one, I'd implore you to just tap the [enter] button an additional one more time when splitting paragraphs...

And a more prevalent theme is ... "please back up your statements". Especially when they're controversial, against the prevailing attitude or if they're just simply (relatively) outrageous.

Not many things incite or fuels a flamewar more than that.

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

Are you off again Ysss or do you just love to rant on lol.
Could you possibly be a little more specific in what your actually trying to say here?.

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 713171)

Are you off again Ysss or do you just love to rant on lol.
Could you possibly be a little more specific in what your actually trying to say here?.

I agree with ysss on this, your style of writing is nausiating and rarely seems to make much sense. Just mindless blathering, would you seriously want to see all your posts removed? As that's pretty much what you were suggesting yourself...

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by tswindell (Post 713090)

Personally, I don't mind all the dissappointed users rantings on the forum, I see those threads and don't even look at them. The only issue, personally, that I have is that they overwhelm all the recent activity that I'm actually interested in. I'm sure everyday I miss important interesting announcements and such, can we not just make a tag that we can use for threads that don't have any kind of valid information for our devices and community. I think all off-topic could probably be removed from the general recent activity too.

I whole heartedly agree with your and the OP's thoughts on this. I too have learned to ignore these disappointment rants knowing that just based on the high price of the thing relative to other devices, initial disappointment is natural.
I also believed that more often than not, after about two weeks of use, a new user either now "gets it" or has decided to move on.

The problem then becomes how we as members react to those threads. When we chose to respond with fanboy rants of our own this sometimes empowers the original ranter to the point that even if they had decided to move on, our counter rants have identified the "hot buttons" that he or she can simply push in order to stir things up again providing them with some kind of perverse entertainment. All at the expense of the members who did decide to stay or who are trying to accomplish something productive.

Forum moderators have the advantage of having seen this before and will (and should I believe) close threads before this perversion occurs. Closing a thread doesn't always mean permanent and it can be used to allow all parties to cool down and provide time for private communication.

My recent response had more to do with the self realizing statement that if threads are closed, others will pop up questioning why.

The topic of this forum is not this forum. :cool:

Threads of this type should also be "handled" by forum staff in a way the administrator deems fit. If the Administrator and by extension moderators are an "arms length" away from the council, any rules that the forum administration imposes in order to control things like this would not be so easily open for attack or counter productive discussion.
The "What I would do if I were King." threads could also then be easily ignored by members like us knowing that they will be handled under the Administrators rules on such things. :)

The beauty of this is that once this separation is established, a council member could then more easily take on mod duties if they were offered by the administration as the chicken shyt over what hat he or she is wearing when they perform these duties would be defined. They do one job and then another. Two separate things.

(Correction: In my previous post I claimed 9 years when in actual fact it has been 7 years, or there abouts. It was not my intention to mislead anyone, it was a mistake on my part. That is all.
Also: I indicated that my anxiety in that post was over wanting to real world test a member provided widget (that passed with flying colors BTW :) ) now that it is the morning after I am slowly realizing that my anxiety may have been over the Morgan and Coke that accompanies these tests. Perhaps I should reexamine my priorities and take a pledge or Sutton'. :eek: )

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

@abill_uk: ok, I will try to highlight some specific remarks/claims from your previous post that would probably generate popular responses that range from "Are you sure about that?" to "Are you sh*tt*n me?". A little reasoning, backup or explanation would help when making such extraordinary/outrageous/outlandish/controversial claims.. just in case... it's not 100% correct, y'know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 712929)

What this community needs is a complete overhaul of pointless threads and delete the lot !.

Moderating is becoming a nightmare dealing with the complaints, troll's - whiners etc etc and we can only put the blame to Nokia for releasing in the way they did along with all the media the so called FLAGSHIP N900 which has turned out to be a downfall in many respects for Nokia and this being the true Meamo N900 forum that is splattered all over every search engine bringing everyone to it !.

OK we all know the N900 has it's pitfalls BUT please consider at least that this very forum is the saviour of the device as it has got many developers working hard to rectify the shortfalls from Nokia.

Everyone now knows the shortfalls and if you get rid of the senceless threads you will end up with the answers to almost every problem the N900 has thanks to the members of this forum.

After owning the N900 since early february and after literally stripping it down looking at schematics and the actuall hardware i can tell you one thing here that the device has endless limits to play and modify and i know in my own mind that all the current missing features can be implemented along with the only real fault the USB port having a very simple fix to make it solid on the pcb.

For all the pitfalls of the N900 if everyone just wait's a few month you will see a device that can do almost anything that a pc is capable of and as a phone has the capabilities of anything on the market for a very long time to come.

My opinion for what it is worth is to close and delete any thread that even hints of arguments and agression immediatly it appears leaving the forum for what it should be used for ....PROGRESSION.

Little do you lot realise that the N900 will actually turn out to be a FLAGSHIP simply because it has endless capabilities and all everyone needs here is a little bit of time for people with the knowledge to do what Nokia should be doing and are doing for free !!! remember that before criticizing !!!.

Reggie please look at the possibility of deleting every single useless thread so that we can search a lot easier through here and find the answers we need for the device we have... time to have a clearout.

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

I will reiterate.

What the community is doing is not working!

What can we do, to curb this instead of feeding it?

I am sorry if some here feel as though I have abandon maemo, please understand I have my own life, and I do not have a n900.

I have no equipment, although I recently received a battery replacement for my 810 which has me reinvigorated again.

The reason I started this thread was because closing threads are not working, I was not attacking ANYONE.

Please, understand we need to change.....

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinbait (Post 713194)

I will reiterate....

Please, understand we need to change.....

Can not agree more....

bun

Re: Sick of all the closing threads

Ysss if i were to explain on this thread every single detail it would only be classed as derailing the op's topic so i tried to keep it quick and brief.

You dont have to be a proffessor to understand what i am saying lol.

May i suggest you direct your critisism elsewhere if possible? because quite frankly you have been at me more or less from the first thread i started on this forum ! (along with your bussom pals).

So i think time to lay it to rest and as i am neither a troll nor an argumentative type so i think better to say nothing if what you do say is not nice.

Anyhow back on topic.